hondo in seattle Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Consequently, they don't count. Yet, all the Hotrod Taylor completions late in the Patsies* game (which was too little too late) do. That's just how TBD works. You should know that by now Hondo. You're right. I should. I guess EJ attempting to lead a come back and successfully moving the ball against at defense that expecting him to pass is a bad thing.
Thunderstealer Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 He reminds me of Tony Banks. And not the good one from Genesis.
reddogblitz Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 He reminds me of Tony Banks. And not the good one from Genesis. The guy that Trent Dilfer beat out?
FireChan Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 We still lost. It was too little too late. What EJ did vs Cincy and what Hotrod did vs Patsies** both count as losses. If you're good with that, cool. I guess we have to say that Hotrod got us a prettier loss for whatever good that is. Really though, they were both victims of a horrible D performance in these 2 games. Whose choice was it to run in the 4th vs Cincy? I'm sure EJ was audibling out of for sure pass plays and into runs. Is that what you're saying? I'm not saying Hotrod is bad and EJ is good. I'm just saying neither of them were able to get it done in the games in discussion. Losing by 13 and losing by 8 are both losing no matter how you slice it. Yes, because there's definitely no nuance involved. It's just "a loss." You're right. I should. I guess EJ attempting to lead a come back and successfully moving the ball against at defense that expecting him to pass is a bad thing. It's not that they're just expecting him to pass, it's more that they are giving him the shorter stuff to prevent big plays.
reddogblitz Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Yes, because there's definitely no nuance involved. It's just "a loss." The troubling nuance to this loss is the one that hasn't been mentioned yet. Yes we did get it to within 5 and then 8 with masterful QB play by Tyrod. Then what? We got the football and on the first play, Tyrod chokes and throws a pick. Game over. When we really needed him to come through ... That's why to me its just a loss. No brownie points for getting close.
FireChan Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) The troubling nuance to this loss is the one that hasn't been mentioned yet. Yes we did get it to within 5 and then 8 with masterful QB play by Tyrod. Then what? We got the football and on the first play, Tyrod chokes and throws a pick. Game over. When we really needed him to come through ... That's why to me its just a loss. No brownie points for getting close. So let's say Tyrod scores there and then the defense lets them go 80 yards for a TD and we lose. Would you still say "a loss is a loss, it's just prettier?" Best part is I knew the pick was coming up. I was waiting for you to go on the offensive. Edited October 24, 2015 by FireChan
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 And those play calls were absolutely wonderful? They have not adapted the play calling or continued with what was working. They had success up the seams, they had success putting Clay outside the hashes on routes, but it's not working. Yes, EJ isn't playing amazing - won't set his feet, for example - but this is not on Manuel. rex isn't workign with anyone. he's a defensive coach with a top 5 talented defensive team. the defense has been more of a let down and a coach with some balls would call out his own guys and discipline them. they've been lazy, aloof, and without heart. marrone would have this team doing sprints for hours playing so piss poor. counting mckelvin as a loss at this point is ridiculous. darby has been playing as good or better then mckelvin so it's a wash. the aaron williams loss isn't hurting too bad. This, really. The D has been a huge disappointment - mediocre in every respect. Yes, the offense has had a lot of 3 and outs and some of that is on Taylor/Manuel. Some of that may be on receivers running wrong routes. I still wonder if Roman is scripting, which has its up and down side, especially when the execution is lacking. Do you really think the D players have been lazy aloof and without heart? I personally think what's disheartening them is that they're playing a D scheme that doesn't suit the players and for which the key to defeating is on film from 3 games now. Jim Kelly called it out IMO - when you see Williams drop into coverage, the QB licks his chops. I think they have showed a lot of heart in our wins.
GunnerBill Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Two things that get said a lot that I don't understand are 1. We had to take a 1st rd QB 2013, and 2. EJ was clearly the best QB in that class. 1. If the guy's not there you don't reach just to say you drafted one high. Plenty of comparable prospects were available in the 3rd and 4th rounds. 2. It may be your opinion that EJ was the best of the bunch, but there's hardly an objectively quantifiable case for it. I accept a case can be made for Glennon being better.... I don't agree with it but a case can be made. But it is objectively quantifiable that EJ was no worse than the 2nd best in that class. Should they have reached? Maybe not... but they had backed themselves into one hell of a corner and I do think EJ would have been gone by our second pick and I can understand why if he was the highest Quarterback on their board in a year where thy HAD to take a Quarterback they decided to pull the trigger. I maintain that in and of itself it was a fair decision. The mistakes had already been made by then. This, really. The D has been a huge disappointment - mediocre in every respect. Yes, the offense has had a lot of 3 and outs and some of that is on Taylor/Manuel. Some of that may be on receivers running wrong routes. I still wonder if Roman is scripting, which has its up and down side, especially when the execution is lacking. Do you really think the D players have been lazy aloof and without heart? I personally think what's disheartening them is that they're playing a D scheme that doesn't suit the players and for which the key to defeating is on film from 3 games now. Jim Kelly called it out IMO - when you see Williams drop into coverage, the QB licks his chops. I think they have showed a lot of heart in our wins. I agree and even FireChan who is more anti-EJ than most accepts he wasn't the reason we lost last week. He didn't help, obviously, but if you want to list reasons for the loss to the Bengals more stupidity on special teams and defensive miscommunication (particularly in the redzone) are much higher up the list of reasons.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 The Anti EJ crowd would say EJ sucked even if the Bills won that game. Defense was a let down, ST was a let down. I could argue the numerous 3 and outs were bad, (as I usually do) but based on the stats I saw the Bills were practically even in offensive yards and TOP. EJ kept pace with the Bungles offense and had more passing yards than the Red Rifle. What was a knock on EJ less than 200 passing yards per game. The short field the Bungles got were due to the multiple 3 and outs and lousy ST tackling giving the Bungles good field position and lets not forget to add in penalties on defense and ST's
Nihilarian Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Man, 30 pages! The hunyucks of the world will always find stuff to hyper criticize about, and focus their vengeance upon! Some of it is worthy, and some not! I must say I can be a critical hunyuck just much as the next guy should the Bills QB be making the money Colin Kaepernick is making, and playing as badly as he is playing. 13 of 24 for 124 yards in the entire game. But was it all on him? Pretty much Things could be far worse in Buffalo. That criticism might also be worthy if the QB were the only singular value in the equation. It just so happens that he is not, and is dependent on 10 other individuals on the field to do their jobs at a high level! If that weren't enough he is also fully dependent on the staff that sets up the game plan, and calls in the plays dependent on what the opposing team is doing to stop him. I'd say in this game that 49er team, and staff is just about as much to blame. SF 15 rushes vs 41 for Seattle. Of course the 49ers will stick with Kaepernick, as his backup in Blaine Gabbert BTW, Star RB LeSean McCoy who can usually make something out of nothing has run the ball 60 times so far this year, and lost yards in 15 of those carries. What does that tell you about the blocking?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 BTW, Star RB LeSean McCoy who can usually make something out of nothing has run the ball 60 times so far this year, and lost yards in 15 of those carries. What does that tell you about the blocking? As I recall hearing or reading - That stat is about average for Shady (at minimum last year) with the Iggles
MDH Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Depends if they eventually made it a one possession game or not. Wouldn't that depend on if the D can generate a turnover or not, which is totally out of the offense's hands?
FireChan Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Wouldn't that depend on if the D can generate a turnover or not, which is totally out of the offense's hands? Not necessarily, but that's what happened in this case.
jahnyc Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 Whether you think EJ has future or not in the NFL, I think we can agree that at this point of his career, he is not accurate enough with his throws. It is a problem, and a problem he has had since joining the Bills. Is accuracy fixable? I have no idea, but I believe that he until he improves in this area and in his overall decision making, he is going to struggle in the NFL.
The Wiz Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Whether you think EJ has future or not in the NFL, I think we can agree that at this point of his career, he is not accurate enough with his throws. It is a problem, and a problem he has had since joining the Bills. Is accuracy fixable? I have no idea, but I believe that he until he improves in this area and in his overall decision making, he is going to struggle in the NFL.I'll start by saying I still think EJ can be more than a back up qb in the league but your two points go in tandem. I watched the Bengals game again and really focus on just watching ej, then the pass, then the routes. I watched each one about 4 or 5 times and I really think his accuracy issue is more to do with his decision making. He's going to the right place with a lot of his throws but he looks like he finds where to throw it, realizes he has to throw it and then throws it. That split second really makes a difference of how accurate he is. It was easy to tell on some plays he knew where he was going before the snap based on how fast he processed the throw and other times where he did what I said above. All and all, he's playing the back up role just fine at this point. My 2 cents. Edited October 24, 2015 by The Wiz
1billsfan Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 I'll start by saying I still think EJ can be more than a back up qb in the league but your two points go in tandem. I watched the Bengals game again and really focus on just watching ej, then the pass, then the routes. I watched each one about 4 or 5 times and I really think his accuracy issue is more to do with his decision making. He's going to the right place with a lot of his throws but he looks like he finds where to throw it, realizes he has to throw it and then throws it. That split second really makes a difference of how accurate he is. It was easy to tell on some plays he knew where he was going before the snap based on how fast he processed the throw and other times where he did what I said above. All and all, he's playing the back up role just fine at this point. My 2 cents. I think that EJ Manuel is still in that young QB who's still learning phase. The guy works hard as heck, has some aspects to his game that are positive and his inaccuracy issues could be worked around. I'm good with Taylor as our starter and a still developing EJ. Many fans have totally wrote EJ off, but I still think there is the chance he could become a top 15 starter down the road in the NFL. Especially when these old QBs start leaving the stage.
The Wiz Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 I think that EJ Manuel is still in that young QB who's still learning phase. The guy works hard as heck, has some aspects to his game that are positive and his inaccuracy issues could be worked around. I'm good with Taylor as our starter and a still developing EJ. Many fans have totally wrote EJ off, but I still think there is the chance he could become a top 15 starter down the road in the NFL. Especially when these old QBs start leaving the stage. As do I. Was just making an observation on him needing to go on instinct and not what he sees in regard to his decision making.
1billsfan Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 As do I. Was just making an observation on him needing to go on instinct and not what he sees in regard to his decision making. If EJ could ever get out of his own head he would stand a very good chance of becoming a sold starter one day. It's one of the reasons one could point to as to why he's had success in two minute situations where you are just reacting and not thinking.
BackInDaDay Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 the concept of being so bad at something, that one eminates a foul odor ithat transcends the senses, places this entire argument in the surreal environment of the sport psychologist, who might suggest that EJ needs to build mental muscle, with positive self-talk, goal-setting, body language, deep breathing, and visualization. simply translated from the spiritual vernacular, this is equitable to "getting your head out of your ass""
The Wiz Posted October 24, 2015 Posted October 24, 2015 the concept of being so bad at something, that one eminates a foul odor ithat transcends the senses, places this entire argument in the surreal environment of the sport psychologist, who might suggest that EJ needs to build mental muscle, with positive self-talk, goal-setting, body language, deep breathing, and visualization. simply translated from the spiritual vernacular, this is equitable to "getting your head out of your ass"" Though hilarious in your explanation, I think it's the exact opposite. I always think of someone with their "head up their ass" as either not knowing or not caring what is going on around them. To me, I think EJ cares a little too much about everything going on around him making him hesitant to do anything. Therefore, I suggest he get his head up his ass and stop worrying about things he can't control.
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