thebandit27 Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Another bash Ej thread sweet!! Tyrod 14 points vs Titans = stud Ej 21 points vs bengals = bum. Never change tsw... I don't see anyone saying that, anywhere. I personally think that Tyrod has made things happen that EJ, in his 15 starts, hasn't done. For example: EJ underthrew the ball on his INT to Hogan against Cinci--it was the same pass that Taylor hit against Tennessee to set up the game-winning TD. That's just a microcosm of the difference between the two IMO. I also saw Tyrod rally the team to victory on the road when they needed him to against Tennessee. I realize that EJ was facing an uphill battle, and he played okay at times. He doesn't, to me, look like he can play at a level where he can win a game with his arm or legs like Tyrod did against Tennessee. That, IMO, is the biggest difference.
TheFunPolice Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Why are we picking on Tyrod Taylor's backup QB? The kid pours Tyrod a mean cup of coffee every morning for the offensive meetings!
Augie Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) Is Aaron Williams' injury that severe that it could be career-ending? If so WTF was he in there 2 weeks after suffering it? Isn't it a congenital condition? Not the injury event as much as an at risk physical problem, I think. (But I'm far from sure.) Edited October 20, 2015 by Augie
Maddog69 Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 I don't see anyone saying that, anywhere. I personally think that Tyrod has made things happen that EJ, in his 15 starts, hasn't done. For example: EJ underthrew the ball on his INT to Hogan against Cinci--it was the same pass that Taylor hit against Tennessee to set up the game-winning TD. That's just a microcosm of the difference between the two IMO. I also saw Tyrod rally the team to victory on the road when they needed him to against Tennessee. I realize that EJ was facing an uphill battle, and he played okay at times. He doesn't, to me, look like he can play at a level where he can win a game with his arm or legs like Tyrod did against Tennessee. That, IMO, is the biggest difference. Go back and Watch the Carolina Game from 2013. Watch the Atlanta game in Toronto. He drove twice to win that game only to have it fumbled away by Chandler and Spiller. EJ isn't great, but the hyperbole here kills me. Taylor has been fun to watch at times, but he's not lighting up the world either. Lets be fair to both.
Best Player Available Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 EJ by all accounts is a nice guy. Although his stock price has been in the dumper lately. it's hard not too wish him anything but the best with his new team next season.
thebandit27 Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Go back and Watch the Carolina Game from 2013. Watch the Atlanta game in Toronto. He drove twice to win that game only to have it fumbled away by Chandler and Spiller. EJ isn't great, but the hyperbole here kills me. Taylor has been fun to watch at times, but he's not lighting up the world either. Lets be fair to both. I am completely fair to both. I remember the Carolina and Atlanta games quite well actually. EJ made a few key plays, which I credit him for...I'm saying that Taylor's efforts against Tennessee contributed more than EJ's work in either game. You're free to disagree with me, but before you do, please understand that I have always been an EJ supporter. Against Tennessee, Taylor basically took the offense into his own hands down 10 points, making a huge gain on a scramble for a key 3rd down conversion late in the 3rd quarter. He followed that up by taking a QB draw, breaking a tackle, and taking it to the end zone for the TD that got them back into the game. On the ensuing possession, he took off and made a terrific run to gain 24 yards on 3rd-and-23 from inside his own 10. After returning from a one-play injury respite, he hit Chris Hogan in stride for the only long pass play of the day, which set up his 3rd-and-goal TD pass to put the team ahead for good. All I'm saying is that I haven't seen EJ take the team on his back that way. Can you honestly say that you have?
Maddog69 Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 I am completely fair to both. I remember the Carolina and Atlanta games quite well actually. EJ made a few key plays, which I credit him for...I'm saying that Taylor's efforts against Tennessee contributed more than EJ's work in either game. You're free to disagree with me, but before you do, please understand that I have always been an EJ supporter. Against Tennessee, Taylor basically took the offense into his own hands down 10 points, making a huge gain on a scramble for a key 3rd down conversion late in the 3rd quarter. He followed that up by taking a QB draw, breaking a tackle, and taking it to the end zone for the TD that got them back into the game. On the ensuing possession, he took off and made a terrific run to gain 24 yards on 3rd-and-23 from inside his own 10. After returning from a one-play injury respite, he hit Chris Hogan in stride for the only long pass play of the day, which set up his 3rd-and-goal TD pass to put the team ahead for good. All I'm saying is that I haven't seen EJ take the team on his back that way. Can you honestly say that you have? I would submit that the reason Taylor was running and making those plays with his legs is because he was struggling to read the defense and hit open receivers during that game. The reason the Bills needed him to perform those late game miracles was his own ineffectiveness earlier in the game. Its great that he was able to get it done, but it doesn't seem to be something that a consistent offense can be built around. He needs to be better in the pocket and I think he can be with more time under center, more time with the starters (if they all get healthy) and more time in the offense. I am not bashing Taylor. I am saying EJ has shown some of the same flashes in the past and some of the same mistakes. The thing that sets Taylor apart from EJ so far is his quickness. When he decides to run, his quickness and elusiveness is amazing. EJ can scramble and get yards, but TT delivers those WOW plays.
The Big Cat Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Go back and Watch the Carolina Game from 2013. Watch the Atlanta game in Toronto. He drove twice to win that game only to have it fumbled away by Chandler and Spiller. EJ isn't great, but the hyperbole here kills me. Taylor has been fun to watch at times, but he's not lighting up the world either. Lets be fair to both. Again, the Carolina game winning drive was aided tremendously by a questionable PI that negated an interception. That's a nit-pick, admittedly, but that game shouldn't be pointed to as a precursor to, well anything, since he hasn't replicated anything like that in his 13 starts since. Likewise, I don't know how we point to a near-win against a team that finished the year 4-12 as an indication that EJ has "it" in him.
Maury Ballstein Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 I prefer Tyrod as well but Ej prob beats the Titans too.
The Big Cat Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 I would submit that the reason Taylor was running and making those plays with his legs is because he was struggling to read the defense and hit open receivers during that game. The reason the Bills needed him to perform those late game miracles was his own ineffectiveness earlier in the game. Its great that he was able to get it done, but it doesn't seem to be something that a consistent offense can be built around. He needs to be better in the pocket and I think he can be with more time under center, more time with the starters (if they all get healthy) and more time in the offense. I am not bashing Taylor. I am saying EJ has shown some of the same flashes in the past and some of the same mistakes. The thing that sets Taylor apart from EJ so far is his quickness. When he decides to run, his quickness and elusiveness is amazing. EJ can scramble and get yards, but TT delivers those WOW plays. But the question was whether EJ has EVER carried the team that way. The answer is no. In 15 starts he's done it zero times. In five starts, TT has done it once.
Maddog69 Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 But the question was whether EJ has EVER carried the team that way. The answer is no. In 15 starts he's done it zero times. In five starts, TT has done it once. A couple of lucky runs is not necessarily "carrying the team". Again, I'm not bashing TT. I like him. But I think EJ has shown some flashes too. In 16 starts, he's lead 4th qtr/OT game winning drives. It seems like people always look to dimish anything he's helped the team accomplish. "Yeah sure but the drive was aided by a bogus PI call". Again, I just want fairness. EJ was not great Sunday. But he did some good things and statistically was very similar to the same output we get weekly from Taylor. Did he throw some ridiculous passes and made bad decisions. ABSOLUTELY. Did he make some good ones too, ABSOLUTELY. I think both guys have potential and I'm happy both are here. Hopefully Taylor continues to develop, stays healthy and takes control of the starting job for the long term. If he does, I'd love to see EJ as the backup. If he doesn't EJ will have one more shot to grab the job himself. My biggest concern with Taylor at this point is durability. Running the way he does is going to lead to hits and injuries. He was dinged up in his first preseason game and that has lingered. That's a concern.
The Big Cat Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 (edited) A couple of lucky runs is not necessarily "carrying the team". Again, I'm not bashing TT. I like him. But I think EJ has shown some flashes too. In 16 starts, he's lead 4th qtr/OT game winning drives. It seems like people always look to dimish anything he's helped the team accomplish. "Yeah sure but the drive was aided by a bogus PI call". Again, I just want fairness. EJ was not great Sunday. But he did some good things and statistically was very similar to the same output we get weekly from Taylor. Did he throw some ridiculous passes and made bad decisions. ABSOLUTELY. Did he make some good ones too, ABSOLUTELY. I think both guys have potential and I'm happy both are here. Hopefully Taylor continues to develop, stays healthy and takes control of the starting job for the long term. If he does, I'd love to see EJ as the backup. If he doesn't EJ will have one more shot to grab the job himself. My biggest concern with Taylor at this point is durability. Running the way he does is going to lead to hits and injuries. He was dinged up in his first preseason game and that has lingered. That's a concern. Lucky runs? If at any point in his CAREER, Kyle Orton pulled off a single run like Taylor does several times a GAME, it could be considered lucky. I think Taylor has demonstrated that "luck" has nothing to do with his scrambling ability. Nobody is arguing that EJ has never shown flashes. But he has done so with noticeable infrequency compared to TT. He's lead A fourth quarter game winning drive in 15 starts. We've all acknowledged that one time he did that thing. EJ's statistics from Sunday are about as damning of a lie of his performance as statistics can be. I also worry about TT's durability. Edited October 20, 2015 by The Big Cat
VABills Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Lucky runs? If at any point in his CAREER, Kyle Orton pulled off a single run like Taylor does several times a GAME, it could be considered lucky. I think Taylor has demonstrated that "luck" has nothing to do with his scrambling ability. Nobody is arguing that EJ has never shown flashes. But he has done so with noticeable infrequency compared to TT. He's lead A fourth quarter game winning drive in 15 starts. We've all acknowledged that one time he did that thing. EJ's statistics from Sunday are about as damning of a lie of his performance as statistics can be. I also worry about TT's durability. Not sure I agree. He had a QB Rating of 81.7 Worst performance by a Bills QB this year. Pretty much what it was. A backup QB performance against the #24 defense in the league.
K-9 Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Not sure I agree. He had a QB Rating of 81.7 Worst performance by a Bills QB this year. Pretty much what it was. A backup QB performance against the #24 defense in the league. Sounds like you agree with him entirely. GO BILLS!!!
Coach Tuesday Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 A couple of lucky runs is not necessarily "carrying the team". Again, I'm not bashing TT. I like him. But I think EJ has shown some flashes too. In 16 starts, he's lead 4th qtr/OT game winning drives. It seems like people always look to dimish anything he's helped the team accomplish. "Yeah sure but the drive was aided by a bogus PI call". Again, I just want fairness. EJ was not great Sunday. But he did some good things and statistically was very similar to the same output we get weekly from Taylor. Did he throw some ridiculous passes and made bad decisions. ABSOLUTELY. Did he make some good ones too, ABSOLUTELY. I think both guys have potential and I'm happy both are here. Hopefully Taylor continues to develop, stays healthy and takes control of the starting job for the long term. If he does, I'd love to see EJ as the backup. If he doesn't EJ will have one more shot to grab the job himself. My biggest concern with Taylor at this point is durability. Running the way he does is going to lead to hits and injuries. He was dinged up in his first preseason game and that has lingered. That's a concern. Hard to argue that with a straight face dude. Taylor DEFINITELY carried the team. He has hit big passes when he's needed to and reeled off highlight runs when he needed to. The guy seems to have a sense of when a play needs to be made and then he's able to make it. Let's be honest about EJ - he just hasn't shown that in his career. EJ needed to hit that pass to Hogan and underthrew it into a pick. (And Watkins was streaking open down the other side of the field). Taylor has made that same play several times already this year. EJ is 0-for-1.
The Big Cat Posted October 20, 2015 Posted October 20, 2015 Not sure I agree. He had a QB Rating of 81.7 Worst performance by a Bills QB this year. Pretty much what it was. A backup QB performance against the #24 defense in the league. He argued that statically he was similar to TT. He's referring to yards and TD's and completion %, I'm sure. All of which are misleading. I can turn his argument right back on everyone saying this was a defensive meltdown by reminding everyone that we out-gained Cincy in passing, equaled them in rushing, had the ball for as long as they did and had more first downs. Stats = lies.
birdog1960 Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 i just don't see the upside of the pro -manuel argument. firstly, it's an argument against the conventional wisdom around the rest of the league. nobody seems to value him highly. secondly, it's an argument against the long term well being of the franchise: even some of the fanboys here have conceded that, at best he's a backup. as frugal as most here pretend to be, aren't there cheaper backups available? um... like cassel after he was re-signed? thirdly, how can anyone still believe this dude is worth the cost of a continued "project". cuz that's what he is, far too deep into his "rookie" time.
Rico Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 (edited) i just don't see the upside of the pro -manuel argument. firstly, it's an argument against the conventional wisdom around the rest of the league. nobody seems to value him highly. secondly, it's an argument against the long term well being of the franchise: even some of the fanboys here have conceded that, at best he's a backup. as frugal as most here pretend to be, aren't there cheaper backups available? um... like cassel after he was re-signed? thirdly, how can anyone still believe this dude is worth the cost of a continued "project". cuz that's what he is, far too deep into his "rookie" time. You don't understand... it's EJ! When I was a kid, the Bills drafted Al Cowlings in the 1st round, 1970. He could do no wrong in my eyes; they picked him 5th overall, so he had to be damn good. They ended up trading him for a draft pick after a couple years, and I was like WTF? Now, EJ wasn't taken 5th overall, but he is a QB, so the situations kinda balance out a little. People who really don't know any better are going to expect him to be good no matter what. Edited October 21, 2015 by Rico
birdog1960 Posted October 21, 2015 Posted October 21, 2015 You don't understand... it's EJ! When I was a kid, the Bills drafted Al Cowlings in the 1st round, 1970. He could do no wrong in my eyes; they picked him 5th overall, so he had to be damn good. They ended up trading him for a draft pick after a couple years, and I was like WTF? Now, EJ wasn't taken 5th overall, but he is a QB, so the situations kinda balance out a little. People who really don't know any better are going to expect him to be good no matter what. thanks. i sort of understand that…although it's f'ing nuts.
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