BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I'd imagine if they were 5-0, he'd be just fine. What's funny is that we're 2-1 in games he's active, and the one we lost was the one where he got 8 of his 13 targets on the year. (And no, I don't think we lost to the Pats* because we targeted Sammy more) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 The same thing applies to Robert Woods. These guys are painfully underutilized as has been Bills receivers for years. If you don't have a qb to deliver NFL worthy throws consistently, you're screwed, and will continue to squander the above average talent you've accumulated. This is why the trade up for Watkins and the McCoy trade were stupid. With a good qb the skill guys are mostly interchangeable. I know we'll hear the same barking from the 'you need elite skill guys', but surrounding unproven or mediocre talent at qb with top notch skill guys does not increase your odds of contending success. You're better off sinking all your cash into lineman who can actually block to give anonymous rbs 4 yards a carry, and mediocre or unproven qbs the extra time they need to process the field to their limited ability. I advocate trading Sammy for maximum return now, rather than let him waste away. Those who love that Watkins is primarily a decoy who pulls coverage away from others are like douches who buy Lamborghini's to tool around 35mph zones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Many have said Sammy is ALWAYS open on the All-22 film. I admit, I don't have access to All 22 film. Is this available to the public or do you need a subscription? I just want to see how "open" is Always Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 just think we could have had d thomas instead of spiller...oof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Yes, but 1 and 2 played less games than Sammy and had better numbers. And fair on 4, but 5 wasn't close to the rest, IMO. Was a rookie QB for WR1 really better than KO and EeeeeeeeeJ? Dalton, while not great, was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Dalton, while not great, was better. Really?I I'm looking at the PFR for KO in 2014 and Dalon in 2011 and KO is better in almost every statistical category. YPA, TD%, INT%, completion%, YPG, etc. Although KO only played 12 games, so that definitely affects things. Edited October 16, 2015 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Yes, but 1 and 2 played less games than Sammy and had better numbers. And fair on 4, but 5 wasn't close to the rest, IMO. Was a rookie QB for WR1 really better than KO and EeeeeeeeeJ? My opinion: yes, rookie QB for WR1 was better. Perhaps not numbers-wise, but there's no doubt in my mind that he gave his WRs more opportunities to make big plays. I'd bet that part of that was offensive coaching, as there's no question that Jay Gruden was a superior OC to Nate Hackett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I don't have a problem with him wanting or asking for more targets, and everything in his language is about helping the team, nudging his OC, and mostly telling his QB to trust him more and look for him more. That is all good stuff. While this could turn negative in some scenarios, every great WR needs to want the ball and demand it when not getting it. That doesn't mean the OC/QB have to make bad decisions to appease him, but decoy Sammy isn't cutting it, and he is an amazing talent that has been under utilized. I hope is calf is up for him to have a dozen targets on Sunday, and if so I expect him to prove he was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I have been contemplating this, and think i have a theory why this came out yesterday. Sammy is ultimate team guy, and will do anything to help the team. Rex wants to do everything he can to help EJ in his first start in over a year. Rex gets Sammy to say this stuff so that Cincy reads and thinks well now...Buffalo going to force feed Sammy the rock...lets roll coverage that way. Sammy doubled all game, EJ never looks his way, but knows Woods and Harvin are now singled. Combine for 14 catches and 218 yards, with 3 TDS. Sammy gets one for 7 yrds.. Bills win 24-17...Rex is a genius and comes out at presser with Sammy and reveals scheme and both a great big laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Yeah that's it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Sammy Watkins wants more targets. Real issue may be the types of targets he's getting are different from college: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Sammy Watkins wants more targets. Real issue may be the types of targets he's getting are different from college: Enh ... I don't know about that. The WR screen is singularly one of the least effective plays in the NFL (except for the Patriots, of course). I applaud the Bills' for not overrelying on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Many have said Sammy is ALWAYS open on the All-22 film. I admit, I don't have access to All 22 film. Is this available to the public or do you need a subscription? I just want to see how "open" is Always Open.It can be difficult really seeing who is really open at any given time since the DBs sometimes drop coverage on a guy if they are certain the throw isn't going there. The one thing I would agree with Sammy on is that he should probably be the #1 read for the QB when it is obvious before the snap that he is single covered. I've seen a bunch of plays from my seats in the stadium where it was clear that Sammy had 1 guy on him and should be thrown to. It should be a priority for the Bills to get him the ball. He supposedly has unique playmaking abilities. I would not want them to force it to him when he is covered and other playmakers are open, but it should be a focus of the offense to use him better. That said, I think it sucks that Sammy took this as far as he has. Whining to your agent and getting him to call Whalley is bad enough. But airing it to Rodak is inexcusable. Talk to Roman. Talk to Lal. Talk to Taylor. Show them in film study where you are open like you say you are. I actually won $20 because I bet a friend of mine in the offseason that Sammy would be the first one crying that he wasn't getting the ball enough. Unless Taylor is chucking it 40-50 times a game, there's no way to keep all of these guys happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Enh ... I don't know about that. The WR screen is singularly one of the least effective plays in the NFL (except for the Patriots, of course). I applaud the Bills' for not overrelying on it. the Twitter handle didn't show up for some reason but that was tweeted out by ESPN Stats & Info. Lest you think it was my own opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Enh ... I don't know about that. The WR screen is singularly one of the least effective plays in the NFL (except for the Patriots, of course). I applaud the Bills' for not overrelying on it.That's true. But if that was the strength Sammy had and the Bills knew (or should have known) that it was generally ineffective in the NFL, it makes it even more ridiculous that they traded up to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I have been contemplating this, and think i have a theory why this came out yesterday. Sammy is ultimate team guy, and will do anything to help the team. Rex wants to do everything he can to help EJ in his first start in over a year. Rex gets Sammy to say this stuff so that Cincy reads and thinks well now...Buffalo going to force feed Sammy the rock...lets roll coverage that way. Sammy doubled all game, EJ never looks his way, but knows Woods and Harvin are now singled. Combine for 14 catches and 218 yards, with 3 TDS. Sammy gets one for 7 yrds.. Bills win 24-17...Rex is a genius and comes out at presser with Sammy and reveals scheme and both a great big laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 That's true. But if that was the strength Sammy had and the Bills knew (or should have known) that it was generally ineffective in the NFL, it makes it even more ridiculous that they traded up to get him. It wasn't the strength he had; it was how the offense was designed at Clemson to get the ball in his hands and circumvent the relative ineffectiveness of QB Tajh Boyd. Here: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1949347-sammy-watkins-breaking-down-film-on-top-wr-draft-prospect "While I do believe Watkins will earn his money early in 2014 as a vertical threat, there is no question he can produce within the entire route tree. Look at the three-step slant, the deep dig or the intermediate curl/comeback as examples." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 It wasn't the strength he had; it was how the offense was designed at Clemson to get the ball in his hands and circumvent the relative ineffectiveness of QB Tajh Boyd. Here: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1949347-sammy-watkins-breaking-down-film-on-top-wr-draft-prospect "While I do believe Watkins will earn his money early in 2014 as a vertical threat, there is no question he can produce within the entire route tree. Look at the three-step slant, the deep dig or the intermediate curl/comeback as examples." Actually, the Clemson coaches saw that teams were terrified of Watkins so they played him way off the ball his entire last season. They were all but giving them 7 yards whenever they wanted. And the coaches said if you idiots are just going to keep doing that we are too until you stop it. Watkins didn't really like it but he understood it and put up huge numbers. But it wasn't because he was either so good at it or it was all he could do, it was more that they played off him so much for fear of the deep ball that they just took an automatic seven yards all the time that often turned into 10 or 20+ because he broke tackles, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What a Tuel Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Bills fans love building our guys up just to tear them down. And controversy, gotta have our healthy dose of controversy. That said - Why is Sammy Questionable? I thought he would be the most probable out of McCoy, Karlos, and him. Edited October 16, 2015 by What a Tuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 the Twitter handle didn't show up for some reason but that was tweeted out by ESPN Stats & Info. Lest you think it was my own opinion! Thanks! That's true. But if that was the strength Sammy had and the Bills knew (or should have known) that it was generally ineffective in the NFL, it makes it even more ridiculous that they traded up to get him. But he's really freaking good at the deeper stuff too. He can do it all, basically. Actually, the Clemson coaches saw that teams were terrified of Watkins so they played him way off the ball his entire last season. They were all but giving them 7 yards whenever they wanted. And the coaches said if you idiots are just going to keep doing that we are too until you stop it. Watkins didn't really like it but he understood it and put up huge numbers. But it wasn't because he was either so good at it or it was all he could do, it was more that they played off him so much for fear of the deep ball that they just took an automatic seven yards all the time that often turned into 10 or 20+ because he broke tackles, too. Excellent point. NFL teams don't do that, obviously. It seems to me that about 1 out every 17 WR screens goes for more than 7 yards or so, and of the ones that do, just about all are Patriot plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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