BringBackFergy Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 The bottom line: he is the most talented skill player on the Bills, and it's not close (sorry, McCoy). The Bills need to get him the damn ball, and they need to do it more than they're doing. This goes back to last season. The Bills targeted Watkins 128 times out of 572 targets last season (about 23 percent of the time). in the first two games of this season, they targeted him 11 times on 49 throws (same rate, essentially). And he's usually open. Last season, the Giants targeted Beckham 130 times on the 460 throws made in the games he played in (he missed the first 4 games) -- 28-29 percent of the time. This season, Julio Jones has been the target about 32 percent of the time (72 out of 227). In 2013, the Bengals' best offensive season in recent years, they targeted AJ Green 178 times on 587 throws -- about 30 percent of the time. All of these other teams have had had better offenses than the Bills for more than one reason, but the one thing they do strive to do better than the Bills do is to get the ball into the hands of their best player. This is all well and good - but you have Matt Ryan, Eli Manning and Dalton throwing the ball. We have Orton, TT and EJ throwing to Sammy. There is a learning curve for TT and EJ which, apparently, Sammy is unwilling to understand. I'm sure the coaches have set plays where Sammy is the primary receiver...but TT and EJ probably (I can't read their minds) see Sammy covered by the #1 CB and look to the second read or TE. I would love nothing more than to see Sammy light it up and get the ball 40% of the time...but it won't happen overnight. While I agree with his comments (Sammy needs the ball), his public outcry ("You're making me look bad") was unbecoming.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 When you have a talent like Watkins you get him the ball and make him part of your game plan When was the last time OBJ had a came with no catches and only 3 targets? CBF
26CornerBlitz Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 @billsupdates ESPN's Mike and Mike: Sammy Watkins needs to keep concerns with Bills' offense in-house http://ow.ly/TtQJP
papazoid Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 everthing sammy said is true. whatever "strings" he pulled (agent spoke to whaley) is fine. going to the media with this info is where he went wrong. should have stayed in house. the only reason you go to the media is over frustration from previous multiple failed attempts to get more targets via so called pulling strings. I still love me some Sammy.
dave mcbride Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I've never understood how guys like Hoptkins, Odell, Bryant, Johnson, fitzgerald and so on can get 10 -13 targets a game on a regular basis, but we can't get 3 to our guy because they roll coverage his way... I would think defenses roll coverage to all guys that are true #1's. So why is it our guy can't get the targets? ... I agree w/ Sammy, he's a good kid, keeps his mouth shut, but you know what, we did move up to get him, start using him or Whaley just looks like a fool giving up draft picks to get a decoy..He really is almost always open -- or open enough that he'll make the play because he's better than the db covering him. Just listen to Gilmore - he knows, and said as much. The Bills have to come up with ways to get him the ball. The knock on Roman in SF was his wide receiver game. Let's hope he improves on that here. People don't like to cite this because of the love for Roman (and to be clear, I do think he's an upgrade), but the 49ers finished 26th, 11th, 24th, and 20th in yardage from 2011-2014 (the 4 years he was OC). That's not especially great, although that offense definitely did some things well.
Storm Front Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Ok, I have changed my mind. He's moving into knucklehead territory, and is quite possibly destined to be a bust. Ha! Lol! C'mon Sammy, you beat everything, you know that.
YoloinOhio Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) This is all well and good - but you have Matt Ryan, Eli Manning and Dalton throwing the ball. We have Orton, TT and EJ throwing to Sammy. There is a learning curve for TT and EJ which, apparently, Sammy is unwilling to understand. I'm sure the coaches have set plays where Sammy is the primary receiver...but TT and EJ probably (I can't read their minds) see Sammy covered by the #1 CB and look to the second read or TE. I would love nothing more than to see Sammy light it up and get the ball 40% of the time...but it won't happen overnight. While I agree with his comments (Sammy needs the ball), his public outcry ("You're making me look bad") was unbecoming. Deandre Hopkins -- Brian HoyerBrandon Marshall -- Fitz Allen Hurns -- Blake Bortles Amari Cooper - Derek Carr It doesn't matter how good or experienced the QB is. They should know who the best option is, and give him a chance to make a play. That's why he is there. IMO Edited October 16, 2015 by YoloinOhio
Canadian Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Wonder if his agent spoke to the Bills about this earlier and nothing was done about it so the media was the next step probably wrong because he has been injured so the timeline would be off Just thinking out loud CBF
NoSaint Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Unreal how some people don't consider these comments inappropriate for a "professional". i dont think anyones saying it displays the utmost professionalism - i will say that 1) people always over react to what the media may say (tends to make little difference) 2) think that no one in the locker room can handle it (seems they tend to like sammy) 3) Being the most professional, and being the biggest winner arent always 100% in sync 4) absolute ELITE talents are a different standard and if you are just a bills fan and not nfl fan, you have never watched a guy THIS good in THIS era. not every player we carry is going to be a steel workers son that drives a honda accord and brings his lunchpail to the locker room. Sammy is a star in the making. was it perfectly worded? no. the guy is a 22 year old thats frustrated. do i love the fire out of him? the thought that he knows he is a gamebreaker? yes. do i think theres any meaningful negative feedback behind the scenes? not from that one interview.
Storm Front Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Imagine how nice of a career Moulds would have had if he had Continued to have Kelly and Flutie toss him the ball.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Deandre Hopkins -- Brian Hoyer Brandon Marshall -- Fitz Allen Hurns -- Blake Bortles Amari Cooper - Derek Carr It doesn't matter how good or experienced the QB is. They should know who the best option is, and give him a chance to make a play. That's why he is there. IMO Awesome, awesome point! CBF
plenzmd1 Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 He really is almost always open -- or open enough that he'll make the play because he's better than the db covering him. Just listen to Gilmore - he knows, and said as much. The Bills have to come up with ways to get him the ball. The knock on Roman in SF was his wide receiver game. Let's hope he improves on that here. People don't like to cite this because of the love for Roman (and to be clear, I do think he's an upgrade), but the 49ers finished 26th, 11th, 24th, and 20th in yardage from 2011-2014 (the 4 years he was OC). That's not especially great, although that offense definitely did some things well. good points Dave. Only question i have with total yards is.or one can simply have 2 drives /games less due to a ball control offense or a bad defense no? Would not avg yds/play be a more accurate judge of an offence?
Canadian Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Look at the Falcons and Julio Jones. I'm not saying they are the same but Jones is always double covered and yet he still manages to get 5+ catches a game CBF
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 i dont think anyones saying it displays the utmost professionalism - i will say that 1) people always over react to what the media may say (tends to make little difference) 2) think that no one in the locker room can handle it (seems they tend to like sammy) 3) Being the most professional, and being the biggest winner arent always 100% in sync 4) absolute ELITE talents are a different standard and if you are just a bills fan and not nfl fan, you have never watched a guy THIS good in THIS era. not every player we carry is going to be a steel workers son that drives a honda accord and brings his lunchpail to the locker room. Sammy is a star in the making. was it perfectly worded? no. the guy is a 22 year old thats frustrated. do i love the fire out of him? the thought that he knows he is a gamebreaker? yes. do i think theres any meaningful negative feedback behind the scenes? not from that one interview. It probably doesn't seem like it, but I'm with you (and dave for that matter) on this. My worry is that by going to the media it may backfire a bit. Defenses may roll his way a bit more thinking we'll force the ball there. And one of his points is that the QBs are young and need to learn to trust him, but he went to the media to relay that message. Not really the best way to earn trust, imo. As for Dave's breakdown, it does seem that the league standard for an exceptional WR is about 28-30% of the targets. In our current offense that correlates to about 8 per game (thanks LeGOAT). To me, it is not shocking that Antonio Brown and Sammy are the ones asking to be targeted more considering Pittsburgh ranks 26th in the league in pass attempts and Buffalo ranks 29th.
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 i dont think anyones saying it displays the utmost professionalism - i will say that 1) people always over react to what the media may say (tends to make little difference) 2) think that no one in the locker room can handle it (seems they tend to like sammy) 3) Being the most professional, and being the biggest winner arent always 100% in sync 4) absolute ELITE talents are a different standard and if you are just a bills fan and not nfl fan, you have never watched a guy THIS good in THIS era. not every player we carry is going to be a steel workers son that drives a honda accord and brings his lunchpail to the locker room. Sammy is a star in the making. was it perfectly worded? no. the guy is a 22 year old thats frustrated. do i love the fire out of him? the thought that he knows he is a gamebreaker? yes. do i think theres any meaningful negative feedback behind the scenes? not from that one interview. I agree with all of this...every word of it right down to the letter.
GG Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 There were several games last year where OBJ was targeted 20x or more. That's what Sammy was referring to. I agree with that. The INT against NE he has to make that catch. Not because anyone else in the league would make that catch but because he needs to be and should be an elite star player. And star players make that insane catch when it is needed. A lot of people think we overpaid for him with the two number ones. I think it was a great trade because he is an elite and star player. They are not going to make every single play. It's impossible. But Watkins needed to make that catch that 95% of the WR cannot make. It doesn't matter that it was a bad ball or two yards off target. He needs to make that catch that no one else, not even OBJ, could have made (maybe Megatron or Julio or AJ Green could have). That's the whole point. We had a clear consensus that it was a bad pass, but still catchable. So Sammy can't have it both ways. Either call for the ball and make all the tough catches. Or don't make the very tough catch, but then STFU about making the tough catches.
mountainwampus Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 This is an ego problem. Calling for targets after his last target was popped up to end the game with an INT. I see nobody-WRs making that catch week after week while taking hits. Sammy couldn't catch it even without defensive presence. Bad timing IMO. Make a play and STFU. Tyrod made more broken tackles on plays last week than Sammy has his entire career. Praise needs to end until he shows something. Till then, he's just another guy. (IMHO, that's all he'll ever be: Lee Evans type and quality). There's nothing indicating him as an elite WR. Show me a play. The volley catch? Mediocre.
dave mcbride Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 good points Dave. Only question i have with total yards is.or one can simply have 2 drives /games less due to a ball control offense or a bad defense no? Would not avg yds/play be a more accurate judge of an offence? Yeah, it's not the be all and end all. But it is indicative of something, and there's usually a fiarly strong correlation between point and yardage rankings.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 This is an ego problem. Calling for targets after his last target was popped up to end the game with an INT. I see nobody-WRs making that catch week after week while taking hits. Sammy couldn't catch it even without defensive presence. Bad timing IMO. Make a play and STFU. Tyrod made more broken tackles on plays last week than Sammy has his entire career. Praise needs to end until he shows something. Till then, he's just another guy. (IMHO, that's all he'll ever be: Lee Evans type and quality). There's nothing indicating him as an elite WR. Show me a play. The volley catch? Mediocre. Wow.... I understand not being elite but mediocre? Thats just not right man I would say he is an above average WR CBF
dave mcbride Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 That's the whole point. We had a clear consensus that it was a bad pass, but still catchable. So Sammy can't have it both ways. Either call for the ball and make all the tough catches. Or don't make the very tough catch, but then STFU about making the tough catches. I watched that again on nfl.com. It was a very, very difficult play - hardly your run of the mill "hard catch." It was a pretty bad throw.
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