FireChan Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Lipitor "kills hundreds of thousands per year"? You're only off by about 4 orders of magnitude. And coumadin isn't used to "dissolve clots"--it's simpy a blood thinner. Any compound that thins the blood puts a patient at risk for life threatening bleeding. You need to learn more. Yet he is able to show up and play every Sunday, unlike much younger players who are injured on a regular basis.... Hey now, you're just a sheep for not following "doctormurray.com" Now go buy his book!
Mr. WEO Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Hey now, you're just a sheep for not following "doctormurray.com" Now go buy his book! No kidding. Every hospital has a good number of people who swear off "Western medicine" when they aren't actually ill.
Captain_Quint Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) That's all fine and well if you're a diabetic Parkinson's sufferer with high cholesterol, high blood pressure and blood clots, but what I really want to know is how you got super jacked with all that going against you! Green tea?Can I use this for my signature?? Edited October 15, 2015 by Captain_Quint
FireChan Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 No kidding. Every hospital has a good number of people who swear off "Western medicine" when they aren't actually ill. I treat my appendicitis with ginkgo.
bbb Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 By working harder in the weight room than you do at your job and by not allowing myself to be herded like a sheep the way you allow yourself to be. Do you work harder in the weight room than you do at your job?
Momma Pecoraro Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 By working harder in the weight room than you do at your job and by not allowing myself to be herded like a sheep the way you allow yourself to be. Is Dr.Oz your top or bottom?
Greg F Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Every hospital has a good number of people who swear off "Western medicine" when they aren't actually ill. And some, like Steve Jobs, waited until it was too late.
Southern Bills Fan Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Do you work harder in the weight room than you do at your job? I think he means that he's one of those dudes who doesn't have a job because it would interfere with gym time.
TheFunPolice Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Diet and exercise are like a religion There's no having a rational discussion. people who pop handfuls of pills and eat garbage all day are especially agnostic. Edited October 15, 2015 by TheFunPolice
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 No kidding. Every hospital has a good number of people who swear off "Western medicine" when they aren't actually ill. Yep. I wonder how it worked for Steve Jobs... Oops too late Steve. Bob Marley, I guess gets a pass... Kinda "religious?"
Greg F Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Cinnamon vs Lipitor in People with High Cholesterol: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14633804 Significantly lowers blood glucose levels, cholesterol and triglycerides and is SUSTAINED after 20 days of not taking it anymore... The problem with the link is it doesn't compare cinnamon to Lipitor or any other statin (Lipitor belongs to a class of drugs called statins). From the link: RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: A total of 60 people with type 2 diabetes, 30 men and 30 women aged 52.2 +/- 6.32 years, were divided randomly into six groups. Groups 1, 2, and 3 consumed 1, 3, or 6 g of cinnamon daily, respectively, and groups 4, 5, and 6 were given placebo capsules corresponding to the number of capsules consumed for the three levels of cinnamon. The cinnamon was consumed for 40 days followed by a 20-day washout period. No mention of Lipitor or any other statin in the design and methods. RESULTS: After 40 days, all three levels of cinnamon reduced the mean fasting serum glucose (18-29%), triglyceride (23-30%), LDL cholesterol (7-27%), and total cholesterol (12-26%) levels; no significant changes were noted in the placebo groups. Changes in HDL cholesterol were not significant. The other thing is you seem unaware that a study with only 60 people is quite weak. I just happen to obtain a copy of the above study. The control group (placebo group three) for the group that received the highest dosage had average LDL levels changed from 3.03 mmol/l (zero day), 3.15 mmol/l (20 day), 3.28 mmol/l (40 day), and 3.36 mmol/l (60 day). So the control group had an overall change of 0.33 mmol/l over the 60 day trial. OTOH, the group that received the highest dose had average LDL levels changed from 2.87 mmol/l (zero day), 2.56 mmol/l (20 day), 2.59 mmol/l (40 day), and 2.72 mmol/l (60 day) with a difference between the highest and lowest LDL levels being 0.31 mmol/l. If you didn't notice the change in the placebo group had a larger change than the test group. The placebo group is the baseline for measuring the effect. The variance in the placebo group (the 0.33 mmol/l) is indicitive of the noise which is rather close to the changes in the test group. IOW, there is far too much noise in the data to draw any conclusions at all which is not that unusual for such a small sample size. By comparison this Three meta-analyses show statins to be far more effective at reducing LDL colesterol. Reductions in LDL cholesterol (in the 164 trials) were 2.8 mmol/l (60%) with rosuvastatin 80 mg/day, 2.6 mmol/l (55%) with atorvastatin 80 mg/day, 1.8 mmol/l (40%) with atorvastatin 10 mg/day, lovastatin 40 mg/day, simvastatin 40 mg/day, or rosuvastatin 5 mg/day... It should also be noted that statins have the additional effect of raising HDL cholesterol levels, the so called good cholesterol. Lipitor kills hundreds of thousands of people every year and does NOTHING to prevent cardiovascular disease, which is what the effects of lowering your cholesterol are supposed to help... That is what the quacks want you to believe. It is actually the opposite.
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Diet and exercise are like a religion There's no having a rational discussion. people who pop handfuls of pills and eat garbage all day are especially agnostic. I dropped my weight by 100 pounds and all the bad numbers cleared up... BUT I have always had high blood pressure since I was a teen (now 47)... Even when I was still 30 lighter than I am now. Been on conventional BP meds for almost 30 years... NEVER titrated, even @ my extreme weight. Was 296, I am now 200... I was teen @ 170 and still had high BP. All the cinnamon in the world won't help. Weight did hurt, but wasn't the cure all for BP, still isn't... BUT better, way better with the other numbers! Been on statins for the last 20 or so... BUT with the weight drop, the dossage has been cut in half... I will see in 6 months if it is still doing the trick. Yet... Through all the years, HDL has always been marginal for me... Isn't it just genes????
TheFunPolice Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Every persons body is different... My point was that everyone has THE way to be healthy when there is no one answer. Trying to discuss it on a forum is pointless. Might as well discuss religion. Anytime someone brings up eating whole foods and exercising a **** storm ensues, when it ought to be common sense. Eat real food, but don't expect it to cure and prevent all illness and disease. Edited October 15, 2015 by TheFunPolice
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Here are a few but I could post endless amounts of them: Mucuna Pruriens vs. L-Dopa in Parkinson's Disease: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15548480 Mucuna Pruriens wins, no side effects, longer effects in the body, higher concentrations of L-Dopa, etc... Berberine vs. Metformin in Type 2 Diabetes: http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/2439-berberine-is-superior-to-metformin http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2410097/ http://naturalmedicinejournal.com/journal/2012-12/berberine-compared-metformin-women-pcos Berberine outperforms Metformin in trials and also has numerous other positive effects in the body including significant waist circumference lowering effect not seen in metformin, anti-microbial effects, cholesterol lowering effects and numerous other positive things. In addition, Cinnamon likely will outperform Metformin by itself as well, as its an insulin mimetic with a structure almost identical to insulin enabling the body to increase glucose metabolism by 20 times normal. Cinnamon vs Lipitor in People with High Cholesterol: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14633804 Significantly lowers blood glucose levels, cholesterol and triglycerides and is SUSTAINED after 20 days of not taking it anymore...Lipitor kills hundreds of thousands of people every year and does NOTHING to prevent cardiovascular disease, which is what the effects of lowering your cholesterol are supposed to help... Celery Seed Extract/CoQ10/etc vs. Blood Pressure Medication: http://doctormurray.com/more-evidence-that-celery-seed-extract-lowers-high-blood-pressure/ http://www.life-enhancement.com/magazine/article/655-coenzyme-q10-helps-lower-blood-pressure Nattokinase vs. Warfarin/Coumadin in people with Blood Clots: http://www.smart-publications.com/articles/nattokinase-the-natural-blood-thinner Nattokinase is 4 times more effective at dissolving clots than the bodies own blood clot reducers, and also breaks up fibrins(bundles of fibrous things that catch blood cells and help cause clots) and can prevent the need for prescription blood thinners like warfarin and coumadin which have serious and potentially fatal side effects Those aren't clinical studies. Those are advertisements. That Parkinson's study is particularly stupid. They compared some Indian seed containing l-dopa to a standard l-dopa treatment regimen, and discovered that the seed has quicker onset and longer latency. Of course, the way they prepared that seed, they ended up giving the Parkinson's patients FOUR TIMES as much l-dopa as the standard regimen (1000mg vs. 250mg), so of COURSE they saw a greater effect...but not four times greater, only about 30% greater, which they don't account for. So the obvious conclusion...Ayurvedic Indian medicine from legumes rocks! Really...don't quote "studies" until you learn to read them.
Greg F Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) Yet... Through all the years, HDL has always been marginal for me... Isn't it just genes???? I believe it is mostly genes. I pretty much eat what I want, no exercise other than what physical activity I engage in at work, usually have some chips or cookies when I get home from work before diner. My weight hasn't changed plus or minus 10 lbs in over 40 years, my cholesterol levels are half the average and I have never spent a day in the hospital (except when I was born). My wife OTOH always eats right, goes to the gym on a regular basis and has had a major heart attack. Her siblings and her all have high cholesterol and have all have had some type of cardiac intervention. My wife likes to remind me that "it's just not fair". Edited October 15, 2015 by Greg F
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Curious...what naturopathic or homeopathic remedy did Brady take for his torn ACL and MCL again? Was that 30C Ruta Grava, or did 6X Calcium Phosphate do the trick? Or was it the magic of Oregano Oil? I believe it is mostly genes. I pretty much eat what I want, no exercise other than what physical activity I engage in at work, usually have some chips or cookies when I get home from work before diner. My weight hasn't changed plus or minus 10 lbs in over 40 years, my cholesterol levels are half the average and I have never spent a day in the hospital (except when I was born). My wife OTOH always eats right, goes to the gym on a regular basis and has had a major heart attack. Her siblings and her all have high cholesterol and have all have had some type of cardiac intervention. My wife likes to remind me that "it's just not fair". My wife was prescribed McDonald's three times a week by her internist, because her cholesterol was too low. One of her coworkers ate "nothing but twigs and berries," and exercised regularly (semi-pro dancer), and basically had Crisco for blood. So yeah...call it genetics, or endocrine variations, or hepatic variation, or whatever...but there's a wide variance between individuals irrespective of lifestyle.
Greg F Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 My wife was prescribed McDonald's three times a week by her internist, because her cholesterol was too low. She needs a new internist, if he had any taste buds at all he would have prescribed a pound of bacon three times a week. And for good measure, one of those should be BLT's with lots and lots of mayo.
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 Like DC said! My HDL is in range but always hovering low. This last, I did everything right and it is still there, right were it was always been. Well, not when I was heavier, it was slightly worse... BUT fixing my LDL (eating better, losing the ton of wait... Totally helped to get the ratio well into the acceptable range!
Big Turk Posted October 15, 2015 Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) No kidding. Every hospital has a good number of people who swear off "Western medicine" when they aren't actually ill. That's where you are wrong. I don't "swear off" Western Medicine. I just simply think they have it completely wrong. Their idea is to treat you once you become sick. My idea is to prevent myself from needing treatment by not becoming sick in the first place. Western Medicine has its place, ie in life threatnening conditions where you need treatment ASAP, but in my opinion when the treatment is "the rest of your life" on prescription drugs there are far better and safer alternatives, and its backed up by many studies. The real problem is that people are unwilling to accept the fact they are responsible for 90% of their health problems and are totally unaccountable to themselves, and would rather place their health in their doctor's hands than take the time to increase their knowledge of how to prevent these problems from arising in the first place. Or they just don't care, because its actually work to eat healthy and exercise, two of the main proponents of any healthy lifestyle. To answer your points, yes I understand very well what coumadin does. The clot busting effect is with nattokinase not coumadin, and nattokinase thins the blood as effectively if not more so than coumadin. Secondly I meant to say that hundreds of thousands die each year from cardiovascular disease, not lipitor. Simply that lipitor is given to lower cholesterol, but its a pyrrhic victory when it comes to your health. Yes, it lowers cholesterol very well, however cholesterol is NEEDED by the body for many things, namely its present in the cell membranes and also acts like a bandaid inside the body repairing internal damage. Not to mention cholesterol is needed for the production of sex hormones such as testosterone as they are synthesized in the body from cholesterol. So you are effectively stopping the production of something vitally important to the body. It also has ZERO effect on preventing cardiovascular disease, which is why its prescribed in the first place since they mistakenly think that lowering your cholesterol by itself will prevent heart attacks and strokes, when its been found cholesterol levels have little to do with this and that triglycerides levels are much more indicative of future cardiovascular events. So if it has no effect on preventing cardiovascular events, then obviously they have a faulty premise, ie lowering cholesterol has NO effect on the prevention of cardiovascular disease and its use is completely out of bounds, espoecially due to the many side effects its use carries, including death in more than a few cases, which is probably underreported as it may be a direct factor in causing their death without being actually looked at as the cause itself. The problem is that once something is believed to be true, no matter how often its shown to not be true via studies, research, etc, its nearly impossible to see changes for many years. I mean they are still trying to tell people saturated fats are bad for you when its been shown time and time again they are slightly beneficial to you or neutral at worst, raising your total cholesterol levels but raising your HDL more than your LDL thus improving your HDL:LDL ratio. This nonsense is based on the very first "study" done on saturated fats if you could even call it that 50-60 years ago which was so flawed it would be laughed at if presented as evidence these days where the researcher took his results and made them fit what he thought should be the truth. Ever since then, saturated fats have been bad but its based on faulty evidence. They know its faulty evidence, its been proven time and again, and yet the recommendation still remains to avoid saturated fats. Why? Because what they learned in medical school is based on old information. Bottom line is all I am saying if people were more accountable to themselves and would stop thinking that taking prescription drugs for the rest of their life is "normal", they would be a lot better off, and the prescription drug companies, nursing homes, doctors and hospitals would be a lot worse off. There is nothing "normal" about having things like high blood pressure or type 2 diabetes in 95% of the cases---its caused by their lack of concern for their own well being. People need to stand up, be accountable to themselves and stop being a passenger when it comes to their health. Edited October 15, 2015 by matter2003
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