Kelly the Dog Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 What are the rules about inactive players around the bench area? You never seem to see guys in street clothes talking to players on the bench. The Bills have said that Cassell was very good at seeing the game and talking to the other QBs about what was going on with the defense because he had spent 11 years in the league. That could be the reason he was #2 on game day if it was close between who was 2 and who was 3. There also was a lot of posters here who said before the season, myself included, that Cassell would be the number 2 if TT got hurt in a game and that EJ would be the starter if TT got hurt longer term. That also doesn't mean Cassell is the 2 even though he dresses for the games. And remember, they cut Cassell with no guarantee he would return at all, and even he said he came back because he didn't want to move his pregnant wife. That's also an indication that he really wasn't the number 2.
dave mcbride Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) What are the rules about inactive players around the bench area? You never seem to see guys in street clothes talking to players on the bench. The Bills have said that Cassell was very good at seeing the game and talking to the other QBs about what was going on with the defense because he had spent 11 years in the league. That could be the reason he was #2 on game day if it was close between who was 2 and who was 3. There also was a lot of posters here who said before the season, myself included, that Cassell would be the number 2 if TT got hurt in a game and that EJ would be the starter if TT got hurt longer term. That also doesn't mean Cassell is the 2 even though he dresses for the games. And remember, they cut Cassell with no guarantee he would return at all, and even he said he came back because he didn't want to move his pregnant wife. That's also an indication that he really wasn't the number 2. Whaley cut him, not the coaches. The open question is not who decided on the cut, but whether it was a consensus decision. I don't have the answer to that. Edited October 14, 2015 by dave mcbride
The Wiz Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Whaley cut him, not the coaches. The open question is not who decided on the cut, but whether it was a consensus decision. I don't have the answer to that.Based on what Rex said, granted in a public interview, he appeared to be on board with it.
eball Posted October 14, 2015 Author Posted October 14, 2015 Whaley cut him, not the coaches. The open question is not who decided on the cut, but whether it was a consensus decision. I don't have the answer to that. Nor do all of the reporters, local and national, who keep blasting Whaley/the Bills for cutting and then trading away Cassel when he was "obviously" the better choice than EJ.
Nanker Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Well, when you get right down to it, it was a mistake getting rid of Jim Kelly too.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Whaley cut him, not the coaches. The open question is not who decided on the cut, but whether it was a consensus decision. I don't have the answer to that. Whaley did not cut him without both Rex's and Roman's approval. If either of them said, "Doug, EJ is just not ready" or "Doug, Matt Cassell is flat better and we may need him" then Matt Cassell is NOT cut.
eball Posted October 14, 2015 Author Posted October 14, 2015 Whaley did not cut him without both Rex's and Roman's approval. If either of them said, "Doug, EJ is just not ready" or "Doug, Matt Cassell is flat better and we may need him" then Matt Cassell is NOT cut. #Rogue
Chandler#81 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Just a Tip-O-the-hat eball, for showing our flocks of newbs how thread starting is designed to be done. Write an interesting topic, toss it out for banter and stay with the thread. Thanks. I follow the team religiously -all tweets, pressers, radio and print. I'm aware of no coach stating Cassel was his preference.
MyDogLuvsPB Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 In any case, watching the two in preseason, it would be hard to understand how any coach would have rated MC much higher than EJ. EJ played well in preseason. Cassel being listed as #2 might have been little more than a coin flip. This makes no sense. Why cut him and then re-sign him if it was just a coin flip? Why not get somebody cheaper? i think it's because he's a veteran who has proven he can lead and also wanted to return at a discount.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 This makes no sense. Why cut him and then re-sign him if it was just a coin flip? Why not get somebody cheaper? i think it's because he's a veteran who has proven he can lead and also wanted to return at a discount. I don't think fans think like GMs. It's never one thing and it's never just about the player it's about the team and the salary cap. Cutting Cassell wasn't about is Cassell better than EJ it was about is Cassell better than EJ by how much, plus is Cassell worth $4m to be a backup, plus do we need an extra roster spot at TE or WR or S so we need to keep two QB instead of three, is TT a clear choice as the starter or do we think there is a real chance we will need to sit him down, if we cut Cassell how good of a chance will there be to resign him at a reasonable amount, if TT goes down are we more comfortable with Cassell for half a season or EJ, etc. All of those things and more go into the decision and it's a big picture decision.
dave mcbride Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Whaley did not cut him without both Rex's and Roman's approval. If either of them said, "Doug, EJ is just not ready" or "Doug, Matt Cassell is flat better and we may need him" then Matt Cassell is NOT cut. You are making that up. You may in fact be right, but your answer is still a made up one because you have no evidence.
Saxum Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I don't think anyone has ever said anything indicating a preference, but he was the second team QB while here, and Manuel was inactive. That's indicative of a preference, no? As been pointed out and ignored by you many times Cassel was cut and traded which shows a preference and he was a veteran hence not need as many snaps in practice according to most reports. He was a better backup not a better starter.
bigK14094 Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Whaley has gotten a back stabing rep.......why do you think Simms elected to stay on the Falcons practice squad.......???????? He certainly stabbed Cassell...getting the pay cut and then trading him. Simms can't make the Buff Practice squad on a technicality.........that could have also been managed. I think Whaley did all this to get EJ another shot........I hope TT is out long enough for EJ to show what he has or doesn't have....this ought to be his last shot in Buffalo. I root for the Bills to win, and if EJ does well, so be it. But, if he gets a few games and bombs.....well, astalavista baby.......
dave mcbride Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 (edited) As been pointed out and ignored by you many times Cassel was cut and traded which shows a preference and he was a veteran hence not need as many snaps in practice according to most reports. He was a better backup not a better starter. I didn't ignore anything. I'm surprised you're saying that, honestly. In fact, I don't have any idea whether he's better at this point than Manuel. Perhaps not. But that was never the issue. Whaley may have had a preference that differed from the coaches vis-a-vis Cassel. It's certainly within the realm of reason to suspect that this might be the case, although none of us really know (hence the thread). Basically, it's surprising to me that you and others might think I'm some sort of advocate for Cassel. As KtD will tell you, I didn't like the original trade for Cassel when it went down, and argued that both Orton and McCown were better players. The issue now is whether Cassel is better than Josh Johnson or any of the other palookas under consideration. I think he is, and I don't agree with the decision to trade him for a future late-round pick. I suspect that was Whaley's decision given that he's the one most concerned about future picks, and because GMs are the ones who control trades (usually). The coaches didn't trade him, although perhaps they were on board with it. I find that a little hard to believe if they really had him as the #2, but who knows. Edited October 14, 2015 by dave mcbride
Kelly the Dog Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 You are making that up. You may in fact be right, but your answer is still a made up one because you have no evidence. It's "self-evidence."
JohnC Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 You are making that up. You may in fact be right, but your answer is still a made up one because you have no evidence. I get the sense from listening to Whaley on the radio for the past couple of years that he is a very modern manager who not only believes in gathering input from a variety of sources but encourages it. His perspective is different from the coaching staff in that he more than they have to factor in cap implications when discussing player issues. It's obvious that I am making a conjecture but if Whaley was considering of making a decision to trade Cassel he would have been having an extended discussion with the coaches whether EJ was ready to move up the ranks.. Making a reasonable assumption isn't necessarily self-evident but it does fall along that loose line.
dave mcbride Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I get the sense from listening to Whaley on the radio for the past couple of years that he is a very modern manager who not only believes in gathering input from a variety of sources but encourages it. His perspective is different from the coaching staff in that he more than they have to factor in cap implications when discussing player issues. It's obvious that I am making a conjecture but if Whaley was considering of making a decision to trade Cassel he would have been having an extended discussion with the coaches whether EJ was ready to move up the ranks.. Making a reasonable assumption isn't necessarily self-evident but it does fall along that loose line. That could be right; I don't know. He didn't get along with the last coach, however. I of course think his relationship with Rex is far better than the previous one.
Saxum Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Whaley appears to attempt to balance roster by using the non-starter depth as tool letting go players and bringing in new players to determine if those players change chemistry for the better. Previous GMs often did this but did this with inactive players.
jaybee Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 I dont know who wanted who but I reckon if Matt lights it up in Dallas this week and EJ struggles (AND PLEASE...I'M NOT PREDICTING THIS) It'll be a painful week listening to the media go after Whaley et al.
machine gun kelly Posted October 14, 2015 Posted October 14, 2015 Whaley's in a tough spot. How do you know the future? Cassel was captain check down, and yes EJ looked better. I can't believe I'm saying that as I was very critical of EJ, but Whaley has made many good decisions, and believe he is going to try and save as many talented guys on this roster as possible, vs. go back to the free agent roster next year. This year was a one time event. Now we will go back to the draft, and after everyone's questions, we drafted the right guys in each round.
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