GG Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 except the US didn't seem to be doing that, maybe it's beyond our military capabilities ? if it's not beyond our military capabilities then maybe our war against ISIS is a hoax, It does seem our friends (Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all the little oil rich gulf states) are actively supporting ISIS. Are you questioning the military and foreign policy resolve of the current Commander in Chief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Are you questioning the military and foreign policy resolve of the current Commander in Chief? How do you get the president's resolve out of our military capacities are not adequate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Now they're reporting the pilot is alive and well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Are you questioning the military and foreign policy resolve of the current Commander in Chief? I am questioning whether publicly stated goals and priorities are real or just for public consumption as the Great game continues unabated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 How do you get the president's resolve out of our military capacities are not adequate? I don't know, troll. Ask illybob, since he's the one who posited the dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I am questioning whether publicly stated goals and priorities are real or just for public consumption as the Great game continues unabated So not the Commander in Chief's resolve, just his integrity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 except the US didn't seem to be doing that, maybe it's beyond our military capabilities ? if it's not beyond our military capabilities then maybe our war against ISIS is a hoax, It does seem our friends (Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all the little oil rich gulf states) are actively supporting ISIS. The US has been doing that. And Saudi Arabia and Turkey have been fighting ISIS. As is virtually every other Muslim nation. The problem is that while we see it as a simple "Free Syria (which may or may not include ISIS, depending on what day it is) vs. Assad," it's not. It's "Twenty different groups, which are fighting amongst themselves according to shifting alliances, all backed by different people and countries, vs Assad vs ISIS." It's not a bipolar conflict, or even tripolar (FSA vs Assad vs ISIS). It's a snake-pit that makes 1980's Beirut look sane in comparison. Turkey's an excellent example of the problem: they don't support ISIS, they've been attacked by ISIS, and are fighting ISIS, and have been dealing with a long-standing refugee problem on their southern border because of ISIS. Turkey's put troops into northern Syria to combat ISIS. They support groups directly that are fighting ISIS...but only some, and not others (for example: while they train and support the Democratic Party of Kurdistan and Patriotic Union of Kurdistan fighting in Syria against Assad and ISIS, they fight against the Kurdish militia units in of the Kurdish Worker's Party, which is fighting ISIS but NOT Assad, and is fighting the Democratic Party of Kurdistan. And there's another Kurdish organization, the name of which I forget, that Turkey supports that is a part of ISIS, and is fighting all the other Kurdish organizations that Turkey supports.) And that's just the political mess Turkey has with the Kurds. And you think a simple statement like "Turkey is supporting ISIS" is at all accurate or realistic? The only ones who have it easy in this are Assad, Russia, and Iran, because their policy is simple: you're with us or against us. Anyone not supporting Assad is the enemy. For everyone else, it's like trying to understand the behavior a herd of rabid ferrets on crystal meth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 So not the Commander in Chief's resolve, just his integrity? yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 The US has been doing that. And Saudi Arabia and Turkey have been fighting ISIS. As is virtually every other Muslim nation. The problem is that while we see it as a simple "Free Syria (which may or may not include ISIS, depending on what day it is) vs. Assad," it's not. It's "Twenty different groups, which are fighting amongst themselves according to shifting alliances, all backed by different people and countries, vs Assad vs ISIS." It's not a bipolar conflict, or even tripolar (FSA vs Assad vs ISIS). It's a snake-pit that makes 1980's Beirut look sane in comparison. Turkey's an excellent example of the problem: they don't support ISIS, they've been attacked by ISIS, and are fighting ISIS, and have been dealing with a long-standing refugee problem on their southern border because of ISIS. Turkey's put troops into northern Syria to combat ISIS. They support groups directly that are fighting ISIS...but only some, and not others (for example: while they train and support the Democratic Party of Kurdistan and Patriotic Union of Kurdistan fighting in Syria against Assad and ISIS, they fight against the Kurdish militia units in of the Kurdish Worker's Party, which is fighting ISIS but NOT Assad, and is fighting the Democratic Party of Kurdistan. And there's another Kurdish organization, the name of which I forget, that Turkey supports that is a part of ISIS, and is fighting all the other Kurdish organizations that Turkey supports.) And that's just the political mess Turkey has with the Kurds. And you think a simple statement like "Turkey is supporting ISIS" is at all accurate or realistic? The only ones who have it easy in this are Assad, Russia, and Iran, because their policy is simple: you're with us or against us. Anyone not supporting Assad is the enemy. For everyone else, it's like trying to understand the behavior a herd of rabid ferrets on crystal meth. So maybe we should publicly state our different goals and how they rank in priority, and do the same with our various allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 So maybe we should publicly state our different goals and how they rank in priority, and do the same with our various allies. Like declaring a "red line?" It would take real leadership and a coherent foreign policy to do that. And would still belie the facts on the ground in the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Like declaring a "red line?" It would take real leadership and a coherent foreign policy to do that. And would still belie the facts on the ground in the region. It would take a complete reversal of how government interacts with the people - "My fellow Americans we are doing everything we can do against ISIS and other extremist groups unless it interferes with containing Iran or in some cases containing Russia or China also we at times need a good pretext to get into other countries and helping fight terrorism is a good pretext but you need to get the terrorists in there in the first place and can I remind you that America is the leading seller of arms in the world and that to much peace is not good for business" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 It would take a complete reversal of how government interacts with the people - "My fellow Americans we are doing everything we can do against ISIS and other extremist groups unless it interferes with containing Iran or in some cases containing Russia or China also we at times need a good pretext to get into other countries and helping fight terrorism is a good pretext but you need to get the terrorists in there in the first place and can I remind you that America is the leading seller of arms in the world and that to much peace is not good for business" No, it would take a complete change in the American public's view of the rest of the world. I mean, we're supporting non-national groups, trans-national groups, and nations, fighting with and against each other, and we persist in talking only about national borders encompassing homogeneous populations of people who are either 1) American, or 2) insane. Arms exports aren't even a blip on the scale of the actual problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Turkey will hide behind the USA / Israel's skirt, though. Putin really can't do much since Obama and Estrogen are aligned. Fixed it. except the US didn't seem to be doing that, maybe it's beyond our military capabilities ? if it's not beyond our military capabilities then maybe our war against ISIS is a hoax, It does seem our friends (Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and all the little oil rich gulf states) are actively supporting ISIS. Winner winner! Chicken dinner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Turkey and Saudis pick and choose among which terrorists to support based on their own agendas. Terror as a separate tactic means nothing to them. Turkey supports Turkmen terrorists because they fight Assad and Kurds. Saudis support ISiS because they fight Shiites tbroughout the region. Edited November 25, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Putin may well be a genius, but he looks like a man whose feet really, really stink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Putin may well be a genius, but he looks like a man whose feet really, really stink. Is that how he got the bear to submit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 When the Iraq army highly outnumbered ISIL in Mosul yet did not fight and left there weapons , that was the end for Iraq. The people of Mosul seem ok with being taken over by ISIL. I would only back up and support the Kurds. Just limited special ops and air strikes against ISIL . What a mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 (edited) Putin and erdogan talking it over at the climate summit Edited November 28, 2015 by JTSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/12/02/us-mideast-crisis-russia-turkey-idUSKBN0TL19S20151202 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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