Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

 

Exactly. The absence of commas in the rule indicates that grabbing either of the below is a foul. I don't see where the "and" plays a role in where the player grabs.

 

inside collar of the back

the side of the shoulder pads

jersey pads

jersey

tacklers can't grab the jersey now? The rule is specifying the location with the first part of the sentence. "the inside collar of the back or the side of the....jersey."

  • Replies 824
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted

tacklers can't grab the jersey now? The rule is specifying the location with the first part of the sentence. "the inside collar of the back or the side of the....jersey."

 

The rule is specifying all locations before the comma and separates each location with an "or" The absence of commas makes this another ambiguous rule subject to varied interpretations, where the refs have generally used any grabbing of the jersey above the numbers as a penalty.

 

The way the rule is written, yes if you grab a jersey anywhere and it results in a player's knees buckling, that's a penalty.

Posted

It is awful that Tyrod got hurt. But I am confident in EJ to play well enough to give the defense a chance to win the game. Hopefully Sammy and Karlos can come back and give EJ some tools to help out the offense.

Posted (edited)

 

Exactly. The absence of commas in the rule indicates that grabbing either of the below is a foul. I don't see where the "and" plays a role in where the player grabs.

 

inside collar of the back

the side of the shoulder pads

jersey pads

jersey

No one is being a tool (it's kind of a fun discussion), but I've gotta tell you guys: I'm right about this.

 

The rule: "No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground."

 

This should be read as follows: "No one shall act on A of B or B.1 or B.2 or B.3, and commit C."

 

The meanings of B, B.1, B.2, and B.3 are fully dependent on A, meaning that they are subsidiary qualifying functions of A, which governs the contextual meanings of each. And the series of "ors" equalizes B, B.1, B.2, and B.3 relative to A, which controls.

 

To simplify: if you delete B.1, B.2, and B.3, you end up with "No one shall act on A of B and commit C" -- i.e., "No one shall grab the inside collar of the back [elements], and pull the runner to the ground." "And pull the runner to the ground" is a dependent clause with a coordinating conjunction ("and"), so the sentence reduced to its most basic logic reads as follows: "No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or side [elements] ... and pull the runner to the ground." To assume that the second clause isn't dependent on the first one, you'd have to assume that the meaning is this: "No player shall shall grab the inside collar, and [separately] no player shall pull the runner to the ground."

 

The bottom line: it's a badly written rule given the stated concern about knee buckling, but it is what it is. A lot of laws are badly written, so this is hardly unique.

 

Alright. I'm done.

Edited by dave mcbride
Posted

I know this....and I am firmly in TT's corner

 

When I saw EJ strap it up to go out there.......I definately didnt have a "oh no" moment

 

It was more like....when EJ goes out there and throws a strike to Woods to win the game......how bad was this board going to be this week with QB contiversy threads

I did... how fast this board would pull out the stake and rope if he doesnt lick his fingers before the first snap. As bad as i hate to admit it... I dont think there is ANYTHING that kid can do to not get crucified

Posted

Why does your assessment rely on preseason stats? Give me something else.

 

EJ had issues with communication and still showed the same inconsistencies in his footwork, leading to accuracy problems.

 

"EJ was playing with all the scrubs" is also not a good point to make because he's also playing against the "scrubs."

EJ's preseason stats were top 5 in the league regardless of whether it was with or without scrubs. He was so far behind in the QB battle that it still didn't win him the job. Also, it was clear from the beginning that Rex had a man crush on TT. EJ never really had a chance.

Posted

 

And then he played wide receiver for a play!

To be fair, didn't he audible that play? Not sure if it was that time or a different time but I recall him audibling in the red zone. Might have just been a read check though.
Posted

 

Lol.

 

Was just thinking that. Not the smartest play call considering the circumstances.

I'm thinking that TT didn't tell the coaches anything other than he was fine. He was going to stay in the game.

Posted

EJ's preseason stats were top 5 in the league regardless of whether it was with or without scrubs. He was so far behind in the QB battle that it still didn't win him the job. Also, it was clear from the beginning that Rex had a man crush on TT. EJ never really had a chance.

He wasn't even good enough to be activated for a couple games. What you are saying is preposterous.

Posted

All this stems from that horse collar tackle. The guy kept with the tackle instead of letting go once he had him down. Imagine of this tackle happened against one of the NFL's poster boys?

Posted

Dave, i am not trying to be a tool, but this is from the rule book directly

 

or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground

 

This from the NFL rulebook

 

Article 15: Horse-Collar Tackle. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket. Note: It is not necessary for a player to pull the runner completely to the ground in order for the act to be illegal. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is not pulled completely to the ground. Penalty: For a Horse-Collar Tackle: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down. A

 

Okay, noew i am confused after reading this 100 times :sick::lol:

 

Also weird as the ref said something about being grabbed by the numbers and not the collar when they picked up the flag against the Bills

 

 

 

Exactly. The absence of commas in the rule indicates that grabbing either of the below is a foul. I don't see where the "and" plays a role in where the player grabs.

 

inside collar of the back

the side of the shoulder pads

jersey pads

jersey

 

The key phrase is "inside the collar". It obviously does not mean that you can't pull a QB to the ground by his jersey. Hand has to be inside the collar of the jersey and/or pads.

Posted

@john_wawrow

By the way, had brief chat with new #Bills QB Josh Johnson, who is catching up on Roman's playbook after spending last year with him in SF.

#Bills QB Johnson said: "I'll learn more about what we're doing for this week, but I feel pretty confident about picking things up."

Posted

No one is being a tool (it's kind of a fun discussion), but I've gotta tell you guys: I'm right about this.

 

The rule: "No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground."

 

This should be read as follows: "No one shall act on A of B or B.1 or B.2 or B.3, and commit C."

 

The meanings of B, B.1, B.2, and B.3 are fully dependent on A, meaning that they are subsidiary qualifying functions of A, which governs the contextual meanings of each. And the series of "ors" equalizes B, B.1, B.2, and B.3 relative to A, which controls.

 

To simplify: if you delete B.1, B.2, and B.3, you end up with "No one shall act on A of B and commit C" -- i.e., "No one shall grab the inside collar of the back [elements], and pull the runner to the ground." "And pull the runner to the ground" is a dependent clause with a coordinating conjunction ("and"), so the sentence reduced to its most basic logic reads as follows: "No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or side [elements] ... and pull the runner to the ground." To assume that the second clause isn't dependent on the first one, you'd have to assume that the meaning is this: "No player shall shall grab the inside collar, and [separately] no player shall pull the runner to the ground."

 

The bottom line: it's a badly written rule given the stated concern about knee buckling, but it is what it is. A lot of laws are badly written, so this is hardly unique.

 

Alright. I'm done.

Just had a terrible flash back to 11th grade math....and I still don't get it.....

×
×
  • Create New...