FireChan Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Yes it is the rule, and as always with NFL rules, it is in the interpretation. I don't know why people think that the only part of the rule that is applied is: grab the inside collar of the back and ignore this: or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground The operative part of the penalty is grab ... and pull the runner toward the ground. There have been other non-calls for grabbing a jersey and pulling defenders to the ground, because the referees have interpreted the rule as any grabbing of the jersey above the numbers and where the player's knee buckles, because there's a specific proviso for that: Note: It is not necessary for a player to pull the runner completely to the ground in order for the act to be illegal. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is not pulled completely to the ground. So in the pure application of the rule, that was a clear horse collar. In a purely logic sense, the "and" implies both statements need to be true for it to be a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 hahahahahhahahahahahahahah this !@#$ing team. i mean, seriously. Eh. In a typical season, how many starting QBs end up playing all 16 games? If we can get Tyrod back after the bye week, this is a pretty normal state of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 All I can say is THANK GOD the Bills already dumped Cassel so EJ gets the start if necessary. I like Tyrod over EJ, but I like slow death over Cassel, ok maybe I like them the same as those are the same things. Cassel is a check-down gutless joke. I can't wait for him to start AND FAIL in Dallas so all the carping by national media about the "risk" of trading him away vanishes once and for all. EJ has good an bad moments, while Cassel's last good moment is from before EJ entered the NFL. Oh come on. Cassel had a great game the last time he played Cincy. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013122202/2013/REG16/vikings@bengals#menu=drivechart&tab=analyze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Tyrod Taylor out with MCL injury; Bills to start Manuel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Well, glad it's been confirmed after all the hullabaloo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 It stinks that TT got injured. Hopefully he can come back after this week, but if he is out a few weeks, the best case scenario is that there is a QB controversy because that means EJ played really well and likely led the team to wins. It is never a bad thing to have two QB's who you can win with. Let's go EJ! Get healthy soon TT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Yes it is the rule, and as always with NFL rules, it is in the interpretation. I don't know why people think that the only part of the rule that is applied is: grab the inside collar of the back and ignore this: or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground The operative part of the penalty is grab ... and pull the runner toward the ground. There have been other non-calls for grabbing a jersey and pulling defenders to the ground, because the referees have interpreted the rule as any grabbing of the jersey above the numbers and where the player's knee buckles, because there's a specific proviso for that: Note: It is not necessary for a player to pull the runner completely to the ground in order for the act to be illegal. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is not pulled completely to the ground. So in the pure application of the rule, that was a clear horse collar. Believe me, I think it was a penalty, but grammatically, the sentence dictates that the hand has to be inside the jersey or pads. It cannot be interpreted in any other way using the rules of English grammar. You'll have to trust me on this one (it's kinda my living!). I agree with eball that the rule needs to be modified to better deal with the second quote that you include in this post. After all, Mariota's legs basically buckled too, although not as sharply as Taylor's. Edited October 13, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Well, glad it's been confirmed after all the hullabaloo. Sounds more likely. Not confirmed until we hear from the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Sounds more likely. Not confirmed until we hear from the Bills. Shoot, you're right. Well, inching ever closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 There's no controversy until (a) EJ is the key contributor in wins during all of his starts, and (b) Tyrod is ready to return.Agreed. And I would add © upon returning to the starting role, Tyrod struggles mightily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Believe me, I think it was a penalty, but grammatically, the sentence dictates that the hand has to be inside the jersey or pads. It cannot be interpreted in any other way using the rules of English grammar. You'll have to trust me on this one (it's kinda my living!). I agree with eball that the rule needs to be modified to better deal with the second quote that you include in this post. After all, Mariota's legs basically buckled too, although not as sharply as Taylor's. Dave, i am not trying to be a tool, but this is from the rule book directly or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground This from the NFL rulebook Article 15: Horse-Collar Tackle. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket. Note: It is not necessary for a player to pull the runner completely to the ground in order for the act to be illegal. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is not pulled completely to the ground. Penalty: For a Horse-Collar Tackle: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down. A Okay, noew i am confused after reading this 100 times Also weird as the ref said something about being grabbed by the numbers and not the collar when they picked up the flag against the Bills Edited October 13, 2015 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K D Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 if EJ plays the way he did in the preseason then we still have a chance. if he reverts back to last year with control issues and hanging on to the ball too long then we might as well not even show up to the game. hopefully the defense can bail us out but I think Cinci will win by 1 AJ Green TD. we won't be able to score enough points unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 if EJ plays the way he did in the preseason then we still have a chance. if he reverts back to last year with control issues and hanging on to the ball too long then we might as well not even show up to the game. hopefully the defense can bail us out but I think Cinci will win by 1 AJ Green TD. we won't be able to score enough points unfortunately Crimminy, Thad Friggen Lewis has us to OT against the Bengals a week after getting here...of course we have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Dave, i am not trying to be a tool, but this is from the rule book directly or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground This from the NFL rulebook Article 15: Horse-Collar Tackle. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket. Note: It is not necessary for a player to pull the runner completely to the ground in order for the act to be illegal. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is not pulled completely to the ground. Penalty: For a Horse-Collar Tackle: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down. A This doesn't address dave's point and I think he's still right about how it's worded. It wasn't technically a horse-collar, but it was really close. Can't blame them for calling it. Bradham's tackle on Mariota, he had his hands farther down the jersey at the numbers, rather than the name tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Dave, i am not trying to be a tool, but this is from the rule book directly or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground This from the NFL rulebook Article 15: Horse-Collar Tackle. No player shall grab the inside collar of the back or the side of the shoulder pads or jersey pads or jersey, and pull the runner toward the ground. This does not apply to a runner who is in the tackle box or to a quarterback who is in the pocket. Note: It is not necessary for a player to pull the runner completely to the ground in order for the act to be illegal. If his knees are buckled by the action, it is a foul, even if the runner is not pulled completely to the ground. Penalty: For a Horse-Collar Tackle: Loss of 15 yards and an automatic first down. A Exactly. The absence of commas in the rule indicates that grabbing either of the below is a foul. I don't see where the "and" plays a role in where the player grabs. inside collar of the back the side of the shoulder pads jersey pads jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) It's tough cuz TT was playing so well. Granted EJ may come in and light it up but it's safe to say that there were a few escape runs that saved our butt by Taylor in which EJ would have been sacked. The fear is EJ brings more of a one dimensional attack that makes it easier for opponents to plan for. With that being said I'm highly grateful that Cassel isn't on the team anymore. Putting him in I think would be a train wreck with his non mobility and inability to stretch the field, especially with our RB core being depleted. We would be dead ducks vs Bungles. If EJ wanted to make his case as starter this is his chance. Best hope is he makes it difficult to put TT back on the field. I really don't want to think of worst case. EJ has to let it loose and show no fear. Or were in serious trouble and will be lucky to be over 500 at the midseason mark. Edited October 13, 2015 by dezertbill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Crimminy, Thad Friggen Lewis has us to OT against the Bengals a week after getting here...of course we have a chance. Not exactly the same Bengals team, but there is a reason that the saying Any Given Sunday exists. We're going to need a heck of a performance in all 3 phases, and it will be a tremendous help if Karlos and Sammy can go (just like we would have before the Tyrod questions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Te refs had a clear view that it wasn't actually a horse-collar and got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog69 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 If the Bills can put up 24 points or more, they should be in good shape. If they are not able to pull out a victory in this game, I won't panic like many on this board. Other than the New England game, I think pretty much every game on the remaining schedule has a reasonable chance to be a victory for the Bills. They are in a great spot right now. They need the injury train to stop and they need some players to get back in the lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChevyVanMiller Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 This may have already been discussed somewhere in this thread, but I thought this snippet in the CBS story was interesting:The Bills reportedly wanted Matt Simms, who is on the Falcons' practice squad, but Simms declined because he thinks he has a better future in Atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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