Mikie2times Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Taylor struggles to see lanes in the pocket. The NFL standards for QB height exist for a reason. You need to be able to see over lineman that are 5 inches taller than you. Taylor rarely comes off his first progression and if he does it looks like a lost play more often than not. Although it's hard to see based on completion % his accuracy is inconsistent. He often holds the ball longer than planned which makes an already poor offensive line look even worse. As for the good, Taylor is the best running QB in the NFL. He isn't just fast, he's explosive with high end acceleration and enough power and agility to break tackles. He displays solid accuracy and execution on timing routes and minimal progression reads. His arm strength is NFL caliber and he has great touch in the deep passing game. Realistically everything I thought of Taylor and most people here should have thought entering the season is playing out. Did people really expect a guy who was going to drop dimes after multiple progressions? So few can? Less than 7-8. Taylor was made the starter based on the sum of all the parts. He was supposed to be complimented by outstanding YAC WR's to turn those timing and first progression throws into 7-10 yard gains. He was supposed to have a high caliber running game to open up some of those deep balls. He was supposed to have one of the top 3 outlet RB's in the NFL as a safety. It appears Bills are struggling because of Taylor but at the same time winning because of him. It probably feels that way because we just don't have anything else on the offensive side of the ball right now .Taylor wasn't supposed to be the entire offense, but that is what he is right now and we just won a game on the road against a very good defense with those conditions. In his struggles, the sum of all the parts was enough to get the win. Nothing will look pretty until we get more healthy. But the bottom line is we should take the massive conference win and remain patient. Edited October 11, 2015 by KzooMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I agree with all you've said except the height factor. Russel Wilson, Drew Breese, they're both shorter than he is, and have both found tremendous success from the pocket. Other than that, I agree with your thoughts on the offense having to rely to heavily on him. I blame this on Roman, as his game plan, despite the lost personnel due to injuries, just be adjusted for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 To me his problem today is that he missed 4-5 easy passes that he must make. They are gimmes. The first pass of the game. The slant to Harvin on third down on the first drive. The easy throw to Harvin that he had to dive for. Those are simple throws he can't miss. He makes some terrific throws every game. The one ruled OB (that was not OB) to Clay was great. The bomb to Hogan was perfect. He had his worst game throwing and yet he didn't throw an INT. It's only his fifth game. It's still a new offense. They had no running game whatsoever. Roman is holding him back in ways, and I understand it. It may be the right thing to do. I would loosen them a little and have him throw more downfield passes. Which also opens up the field should he decide to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Taylor struggles to see lanes in the pocket. . That does seem to be apparent with his progressions since week 2. Clogging the throwing lanes has been a good defensive game plan, given Roman's determination to make him a pocket passer. Perhaps today's performance (and the game film it produced) will back the defense off the line a bit more and open things up for TT... I agree with all you've said except the height factor. Russel Wilson, Drew Breese, they're both shorter than he is, and have both found tremendous success from the pocket. I'd love to know the percentage of balls Wilson throws from a conventional pocket... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 To me his problem today is that he missed 4-5 easy passes that he must make. They are gimmes. The first pass of the game. The slant to Harvin on third down on the first drive. The easy throw to Harvin that he had to dive for. Those are simple throws he can't miss. He makes some terrific throws every game. The one ruled OB (that was not OB) to Clay was great. The bomb to Hogan was perfect. He had his worst game throwing and yet he didn't throw an INT. It's only his fifth game. It's still a new offense. They had no running game whatsoever. Roman is holding him back in ways, and I understand it. It may be the right thing to do. I would loosen them a little and have him throw more downfield passes. Which also opens up the field should he decide to run. To be fair, having a legitimate receiving option (Watkins) and running game (Karlos) should help open up the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 To me his problem today is that he missed 4-5 easy passes that he must make. They are gimmes. The first pass of the game. The slant to Harvin on third down on the first drive. The easy throw to Harvin that he had to dive for. Those are simple throws he can't miss. He makes some terrific throws every game. The one ruled OB (that was not OB) to Clay was great. The bomb to Hogan was perfect. He had his worst game throwing and yet he didn't throw an INT. It's only his fifth game. It's still a new offense. They had no running game whatsoever. Roman is holding him back in ways, and I understand it. It may be the right thing to do. I would loosen them a little and have him throw more downfield passes. Which also opens up the field should he decide to run. I wonder if he hits those throws you mention does Roman call a different game? Speaking of Roman....Yolo's guy from OSU was our most effective runner today (besides TT) yet he wasn't on the field at some very critical times. Think that was lack of knowledge of the playbook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) To me his problem today is that he missed 4-5 easy passes that he must make. They are gimmes. The first pass of the game. The slant to Harvin on third down on the first drive. The easy throw to Harvin that he had to dive for. Those are simple throws he can't miss. He makes some terrific throws every game. The one ruled OB (that was not OB) to Clay was great. The bomb to Hogan was perfect. He had his worst game throwing and yet he didn't throw an INT. It's only his fifth game. It's still a new offense. They had no running game whatsoever. Roman is holding him back in ways, and I understand it. It may be the right thing to do. I would loosen them a little and have him throw more downfield passes. Which also opens up the field should he decide to run. Taylor seems to be hesitant or too heady sometimes, and always early in the games. They are most cetainly asking him to stay in the pocket and deliver passes and I think he has to keep himself from running sometimes which messes up his flow/mojo/flojo/whatever. When they let him ball out, he is nearly unstoppable. Agreed that the throwing lanes aren't always there. Don't know exactly what sort of coaching can be done to help TT in this regard, but it would be helpful if we could open some lanes up for him. Edited October 11, 2015 by Big C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 I agree with all you've said except the height factor. Russel Wilson, Drew Breese, they're both shorter than he is, and have both found tremendous success from the pocket. Other than that, I agree with your thoughts on the offense having to rely to heavily on him. I blame this on Roman, as his game plan, despite the lost personnel due to injuries, just be adjusted for this I thought of Breese right away. Some can beat the rule. Being around 6 feet certainly doesn't guarantee failure, but it does make things challenging. I think Tyrod has made more of a career getting outside the box as a way to create throwing lanes. Roman often does this intentionally in play action which suites Taylor well. He is clearly being game planned to be contained on the edge. Part of his progression will have to show continued improvement stepping up and delivering in the pocket. I would also like him to attack more of the interior with his legs as he did today. I almost feel Taylor has taken such a beating being called a run only guy he refuses to run, but he's just so dynamic when he does and I just want to see that be part of his game. If teams are going to seal the edges it can create lanes in the middle especially with his explosion. Force a spy, it takes one more guy out of coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I thought of Breese right away. Some can beat the rule. Being around 6 feet certainly doesn't guarantee failure, but it does make things challenging. I think Tyrod has made more of a career getting outside the box as a way to create throwing lanes. Roman often does this intentionally in play action which suites Taylor well. He is clearly being game planned to be contained on the edge. Part of his progression will have to show continued improvement stepping up and delivering in the pocket. I would also like him to attack more of the interior with his legs as he did today. I almost feel Taylor has taken such a beating being called a run only guy he refuses to run, but he's just so dynamic when he does and I just want to see that be part of his game. If teams are going to seal the edges it can create lanes in the middle especially with his explosion. Force a spy, it takes one more guy out of coverage. Honestly, I've been extremely unimpressed with Taylor on the bootleg outside of the pocket. He seems slow to get his head around, and often is late on his first read. After his first read, he seems skiddish on his progression. Thank goodness he has his legs (which hurt him sometimes) to save him. I think utilizing interior lanes is great in theory, but they'd still need an edge presence. Something Boobie, as seen today, cannot supply. Maybe when McCoy returns, the length of the field will be explored, giving TT more options inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I have one counter point to the company line here: several have said his running is causing him to get banged up. For the most part, he is rarely hit hard on the runs—the horse collar today being a notable exception. I think his "getting banged up" is happening when he us standing in the pocket and getting racked by d-lineman. The line has not helped him and teams are taking the edge/outside scramble away; thus, I think he has taken far more serious abuse in there than he has when he escapes. I would love to see him run more, I think it just makes the entire offense better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 I have one counter point to the company line here: several have said his running is causing him to get banged up. For the most part, he is rarely hit hard on the runs—the horse collar today being a notable exception. I think his "getting banged up" is happening when he us standing in the pocket and getting racked by d-lineman. The line has not helped him and teams are taking the edge/outside scramble away; thus, I think he has taken far more serious abuse in there than he has when he escapes. I would love to see him run more, I think it just makes the entire offense better. Agreed, he rarely gets squared up on when he's running. It's usually when he's struggling in the pocket trying to escape or behind the line, somebody roles up on his legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 To be perfectly honest I did not expect Aaron Rogers from Tyrod Taylor when we started the season. What I find interesting is that if we just had a "middling" quarterback that was a game manager before the start of the season they would have taken that. We have more then that with Tyrod Taylor......we have a playmaker.....BUT he is still in fact only starting his 5th game. - He is getting NO help from his running game....that is usually a recepi for disaster for inexperienced starter I expect him to improve.....and yes it does appear that teams are getting some game film on him but STILL it looks to me like Roman might be outthinking himself with his QB - He isnt a pocket passer - Dont force him to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 - He isnt a pocket passer - Dont force him to be What's doubly odd is that our WRs, TEs and RBs are perfectly suited to having a moving pocket/run on the throw offense as well. Why we're running a conventional NFL pocket passing scheme is a mystery to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 What's doubly odd is that our WRs, TEs and RBs are perfectly suited to having a moving pocket/run on the throw offense as well. Why we're running a conventional NFL pocket passing scheme is a mystery to me... I think there are two things going on: 1) the team is different without Sammy and Lesean and now Karlos, and Roman overprotected TT which may have been a mistake. And 2) I think they are playing for the long run. They want TT to be able to throw from the pocket because they know he already can throw on the run. So they think if they can give him the experience in the pocket as a thrower, he has a chance to be very good instead of being just a rollout guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I think there are two things going on: 1) the team is different without Sammy and Lesean and now Karlos, and Roman overprotected TT which may have been a mistake. And 2) I think they are playing for the long run. They want TT to be able to throw from the pocket because they know he already can throw on the run. So they think if they can give him the experience in the pocket as a thrower, he has a chance to be very good instead of being just a rollout guy. Kelly...that has occurred to me The problem? We need to win these games in the 1st half of our schedule.....we should NOT have lost that Giants game......was very happy we pullled this out Putting things into TTs game (like throwing from the pocket) that is what PRACTICE is for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Kelly...that has occurred to me The problem? We need to win these games in the 1st half of our schedule.....we should NOT have lost that Giants game......was very happy we pullled this out Putting things into TTs game (like throwing from the pocket) that is what PRACTICE is for I don't think you can practice throwing from the pocket that is the equivalent of doing it in a real game. I think the idea of trying to make TT a pocket passer is a good one overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 2) I . They want TT to be able to throw from the pocket because they know he already can throw on the run. Play to your strengths, make other teams adjust to stop it. I thought that was the reasoning behind why this offense was assembled the way it was. Now we're using vanilla pocket-based schemes and wondering why we're strugging. To be fair, Harvin appears to be struggling as a one and Woods isn't scaring anyone as the two. (also, where's that motion / mis-direction running game we heard about? Running a conventional I formation doesn't match the preseason rhetoric it seems). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 To be fair, having a legitimate receiving option (Watkins) and running game (Karlos) should help open up the field This is why I don't think it's fair to judge him this week. If he has such an up-and-down performance in a few weeks with all our skill guys, then let's talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Play to your strengths, make other teams adjust to stop it. I thought that was the reasoning behind why this offense was assembled the way it was. Now we're using vanilla pocket-based schemes and wondering why we're strugging. To be fair, Harvin appears to be struggling as a one and Woods isn't scaring anyone as the two. (also, where's that motion / mis-direction running game we heard about? Running a conventional I formation doesn't match the preseason rhetoric it seems). I understand what you are saying but he can only become good if you just play to your strengths. He can be great if he becomes a pocket passer, too. Good teams build rosters and play games for the short, mid and long term. That is what we are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Haha listening to Rex post game press conference: "is he a great QB? No, but..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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