Tyrod Taylor: straight up baller and team mvp today

[GG]

I'm not comparing the games of the two players; I'm comparing the true believer fan bases who, despite all evidence to the contrary, insist that they are "The Guy" because their teams won some games for them.

 

I haven't seen an all out defense of TT's flaws, and I also don't think it's a simple coincidence that his game has suffered as soon as McCoy & Watkins went out. Look at the other thread. Bills offensive design is really centered on those guys. Without them, the team doesn't have dynamic replacements and the offense is not a type of plug & play that other teams can get away with.

[Big Gun]

Big game coming up this week.....and way to early to say TT is not "the guy"

 

Starting his 6th NFL game

sure TT's the guy, this year. doubt he's the guy next year.

[FireChan]

Huh... I hadn't pegged you for one of the True Believers.

 

It's reasonable to assume that players will improve year over year. And yes, it's reasonable to assume that when you create a statistical vacuum by removing a player's contribution that something will fill that gap. Crediting the entire team with 50% of Tyrod's totals as a replacement is reasonable.

 

Perhaps Tyrod is better than EJ, but this was never a true QB competition. Rex has coveted Tyrod for years, and has no ties to EJ, and there is not reason to assume that EJ has no trade value. The truth is, that EJ was our best quarterback in the pre-season games; and every objective observer commented that he was much improved.

 

As I said, I don't know if "The Guy" is on our roster; I just know that Tyrod isn't "The Guy".

 

This is like Tim Tebow all over again.

 

Huh... I hadn't pegged you for one of the True Believers.

 

Nor should you have. Tyrod got the original start based on the summer. He can lose or maintain the job based on how he continues to play (and perhaps how many games he wins, even with not good play, as unfair as that is.)

 

It's reasonable to assume that players will improve year over year. And yes, it's reasonable to assume that when you create a statistical vacuum by removing a player's contribution that something will fill that gap. Crediting the entire team with 50% of Tyrod's totals as a replacement is reasonable.

 

But EJ proved that assumption wrong when he got worse from 13 to 14. Why should we ignore that? And if you want to credit the rest of the team for half of his rushing totals if he was removed, fine, but it's unreasonable to believe that the replacement at QB (who at this point can only be EJ) would make up the other 50% in any way. Because he has never attained as many yards as Tyrod has. You claiming that EJ is going to improve to adding 236 yards in 5 games is completely groundless. Besides "sometimes players get better." Maybe he's one 5 yard pass per game better? How do you know?

 

Perhaps Tyrod is better than EJ, but this was never a true QB competition. Rex has coveted Tyrod for years,

 

Groundless.

 

and has no ties to EJ, and there is not reason to assume that EJ has no trade value. The truth is, that EJ was our best quarterback in the pre-season games; and every objective observer commented that he was much improved.

 

If this was no true competition, and Rex didn't want EJ, and he had trade value, it is reasonable to assume that he would've been jettisoned. See how easy it is to just assume a story? And no, EJ was the best QB in exactly 1 preseason game. The other two, along with almost every practice rep, he was not. Every objective observer also said Tyrod was the best QB in the preseason, and you see how that translates to the game field. Why can the same not be true for EJ, practice improvement and game bum like he has been his whole career?

 

As I said, I don't know if "The Guy" is on our roster; I just know that Tyrod isn't "The Guy".

 

This is like Tim Tebow all over again.

 

Really? Tebow-like to say that Tyrod won the job and he's the best QB on the roster? I'm not crowning him. I think he's exciting when he plays well. I don't know who you think you're talking to right now.

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

I haven't seen an all out defense of TT's flaws, and I also don't think it's a simple coincidence that his game has suffered as soon as McCoy & Watkins went out. Look at the other thread. Bills offensive design is really centered on those guys. Without them, the team doesn't have dynamic replacements and the offense is not a type of plug & play that other teams can get away with.

I think that's a fairly large indictment of Tyrod's ability as a quarterback by itself. What it speaks to is that Tyrod isn't a good quarterback; but rather is a great playmaker who happens to play quarterback. As such, it's essential that he be surrounded with other playmakers, otherwise he's ineffective, because he doesn't have the ability to do it by himself with any consistency, and when he's asked to, he struggles mightily because of his laundry list of limitations as a pocket passer.

 

Huh... I hadn't pegged you for one of the True Believers.

 

Nor should you have. Tyrod got the original start based on the summer. He can lose or maintain the job based on how he continues to play (and perhaps how many games he wins, even with not good play, as unfair as that is.)

 

It's reasonable to assume that players will improve year over year. And yes, it's reasonable to assume that when you create a statistical vacuum by removing a player's contribution that something will fill that gap. Crediting the entire team with 50% of Tyrod's totals as a replacement is reasonable.

 

But EJ proved that assumption wrong when he got worse from 13 to 14. Why should we ignore that? And if you want to credit the rest of the team for half of his rushing totals if he was removed, fine, but it's unreasonable to believe that the replacement at QB (who at this point can only be EJ) would make up the other 50% in any way. Because he has never attained as many yards as Tyrod has. You claiming that EJ is going to improve to adding 236 yards in 5 games is completely groundless. Besides "sometimes players get better." Maybe he's one 5 yard pass per game better? How do you know?

 

Perhaps Tyrod is better than EJ, but this was never a true QB competition. Rex has coveted Tyrod for years,

 

Groundless.

 

and has no ties to EJ, and there is not reason to assume that EJ has no trade value. The truth is, that EJ was our best quarterback in the pre-season games; and every objective observer commented that he was much improved.

 

If this was no true competition, and Rex didn't want EJ, and he had trade value, it is reasonable to assume that he would've been jettisoned. See how easy it is to just assume a story? And no, EJ was the best QB in exactly 1 preseason game. The other two, along with almost every practice rep, he was not. Every objective observer also said Tyrod was the best QB in the preseason, and you see how that translates to the game field. Why can the same not be true for EJ, practice improvement and game bum like he has been his whole career?

 

As I said, I don't know if "The Guy" is on our roster; I just know that Tyrod isn't "The Guy".

 

This is like Tim Tebow all over again.

 

Really? Tebow-like to say that Tyrod won the job and he's the best QB on the roster? I'm not crowning him. I think he's exciting when he plays well. I don't know who you think you're talking to right now.

I'm talking to a True Believer who thinks every criticism of Tyrod is an endorsement of EJ Manuel, and who is blissfully unaware of Rex Ryan's long love affair with Tyrod Tayor's feet, apparently.

[FireChan]

I'm talking to a True Believer who thinks every criticism of Tyrod is an endorsement of EJ Manuel, and who is blissfully unaware of Rex Ryan's long love affair with Tyrod Tayor's feet, apparently.

Then who would you like to start at QB next week?

[GG]

I think that's a fairly large indictment of Tyrod's ability as a quarterback by itself. What it speaks to is that Tyrod isn't a good quarterback; but rather is a great playmaker who happens to play quarterback. As such, it's essential that he be surrounded with other playmakers, otherwise he's ineffective, because he doesn't have the ability to do it by himself with any consistency, and when he's asked to, he struggles mightily because of his laundry list of limitations as a pocket passer.

I'm talking to a True Believer who thinks every criticism of Tyrod is an endorsement of EJ Manuel, and who is blissfully unaware of Rex Ryan's long love affair with Tyrod Tayor's feet, apparently.

 

That was a big part of the decision to name him the starter. If Bills were running a true ground & pound offense that didn't rely on top 5 talents at RB & WR, there's no way in hell they get rid of Cassell, and very likely he would have been the starting QB.

[Maddog69]

That was a big part of the decision to name him the starter. If Bills were running a true ground & pound offense that didn't rely on top 5 talents at RB & WR, there's no way in hell they get rid of Cassell, and very likely he would have been the starting QB.

Boy did we dodge a bullet. Cassel playing behind this line with no running game and no Sammy would be a recipe for disaster.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Then who would you like to start at QB next week?

Anyone else. Unfortunately, we only have two QBs on the roster right now, so I guess I'm taking my chances with EJ. He's not the athlete or individual playmaker that Tyrod is, but he's much stronger in the pocket, and I believe would give us a more consistent base to work from providing us with a better chance to win now.

 

I'm not sold on EJ as "The Guy" either however, so unless he demonstrates that he's grown and is able to do in his 3rd year with 13 starts under his belt what Tyrod has been unable to do in his 5th year with 5 starts under his, then it's time to go back to the well next year.

[Gugny]

Anyone else. Unfortunately, we only have two QBs on the roster right now, so I guess I'm taking my chances with EJ. He's not the athlete or individual playmaker that Tyrod is, but he's much stronger in the pocket, and I believe would give us a more consistent base to work from providing us with a better chance to win now.

 

I'm not sold on EJ as "The Guy" either however, so unless he demonstrates that he's grown and is able to do in his 3rd year with 13 starts under his belt what Tyrod has been unable to do in his 5th year with 5 starts under his, then it's time to go back to the well next year.

 

I agree with this entire post; it represents exactly how I feel about the Bills' QB situation.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

In his last two games, Tyrod Taylor's offense has been off the field with 3 and Outs or has turned the ball over in fewer than 3 plays in 12 out of 24 drives. (I included the victory formation, kneel down drive at the end of the Titan's game in order to improve Tyrod's numbers) That's 3 and Out or worse 50% of the time, folks.

 

When did this become "Tyrod Taylor's offense"? Last I heard, Greg Roman was OC and called the plays. I think everyone would agree that the offense has been morbidly slow to start games, and needs significant improvement. The open question would be why, and what to change?

 

By labeling it "Tyrod Taylor's Offense" you appear to be drawing a conclusion and thus building up a nice little crusade, is that your intent?

 

 

I have no intention of actually looking this up, but I'm wondering what the 3-and-out percentage is for a typical offense.

[FireChan]

Anyone else. Unfortunately, we only have two QBs on the roster right now, so I guess I'm taking my chances with EJ. He's not the athlete or individual playmaker that Tyrod is, but he's much stronger in the pocket, and I believe would give us a more consistent base to work from providing us with a better chance to win now.

 

I'm not sold on EJ as "The Guy" either however, so unless he demonstrates that he's grown and is able to do in his 3rd year with 13 starts under his belt what Tyrod has been unable to do in his 5th year with 5 starts under his, then it's time to go back to the well next year.

So you call me a "True Believer" because I believe you are endorsing EJ over TT and then you go ahead and endorse EJ over TT.

 

Funny stuff.

[John from Riverside]

sure TT's the guy, this year. doubt he's the guy next year.

based on what.....Rex loves the guy

[The Wiz]

 

When did this become "Tyrod Taylor's offense"? Last I heard, Greg Roman was OC and called the plays. I think everyone would agree that the offense has been morbidly slow to start games, and needs significant improvement. The open question would be why, and what to change?

 

By labeling it "Tyrod Taylor's Offense" you appear to be drawing a conclusion and thus building up a nice little crusade, is that your intent?

 

 

I have no intention of actually looking this up, but I'm wondering what the 3-and-out percentage is for a typical offense.

Actually the first 3 games they came out hot and marched down the field if memory serves me correctly. If not the first drive the second.

 

EDIT: Indy was the 3rd drive. But NE and MIA were the opening drive.

 

Also about the 3 and outs, here ya go. League average: 20.3% Buffalo is sitting in last at 31.67%

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/three-and-out-percentage/2015/

Edited October 12, 2015 by The Wiz

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

When did this become "Tyrod Taylor's offense"? Last I heard, Greg Roman was OC and called the plays. I think everyone would agree that the offense has been morbidly slow to start games, and needs significant improvement. The open question would be why, and what to change?

 

By labeling it "Tyrod Taylor's Offense" you appear to be drawing a conclusion and thus building up a nice little crusade, is that your intent?

 

 

I have no intention of actually looking this up, but I'm wondering what the 3-and-out percentage is for a typical offense.

It's Tyrod Taylor's offense, just as the Jets offense is Ryan Fitzpatrick's offense, just as the Jaguars offense is Blake Bortle's offense, just as the Packers offense is Aaron Rodgers' offense.

 

You just don't have a quality argument to make in dissent, so your trying to squash mine by calling it "crusading", hoping that the mods will squash it for you.

So you call me a "True Believer" because I believe you are endorsing EJ over TT and then you go ahead and endorse EJ over TT.

 

Funny stuff.

That's intellectually dishonest, and further, you know it.

 

What I have endorsed is "anyone other than Tyrod Taylor". I'm not responsible for roster construction.

 

The only thing funny here is your pretzel logic. Would you care for some mustard with that?

[GG]

Anyone else. Unfortunately, we only have two QBs on the roster right now, so I guess I'm taking my chances with EJ. He's not the athlete or individual playmaker that Tyrod is, but he's much stronger in the pocket, and I believe would give us a more consistent base to work from providing us with a better chance to win now.

 

I'm not sold on EJ as "The Guy" either however, so unless he demonstrates that he's grown and is able to do in his 3rd year with 13 starts under his belt what Tyrod has been unable to do in his 5th year with 5 starts under his, then it's time to go back to the well next year.

And you have this precisely wrong. Because the Bills top playmakers are out, and the OL is very bad,, TT is the best option at QB because he's the only playmaker left.

 

Let's hammer him is he continues to play poorly after Sammy and Shady return.

[FireChan]

That's intellectually dishonest, and further, you know it.

 

What I have endorsed is "anyone other than Tyrod Taylor". I'm not responsible for roster construction.

 

The only thing funny here is your pretzel logic. Would you care for some mustard with that?

That's intellectually dishonest, and further, you know it.

 

Is it?

 

"I'm talking to a True Believer who thinks every criticism of Tyrod is an endorsement of EJ Manuel"

 

"so I guess I'm taking my chances with EJ. He's not the athlete or individual playmaker that Tyrod is, but he's much stronger in the pocket, and I believe would give us a more consistent base to work from providing us with a better chance to win now."

 

What is this, other than a clear endorsement that EJ Manuel gives us a better chance to win than Tyrod?

 

Endorsing "anyone but Taylor" is all well and good, but the fact of the matter is that that's not possible. The only possibility is EJ over TT. Which you believe.

 

I know, I know, that really damages your claims and I apologize in advance. Because while an argument for "anyone but Taylor" allows you to only critique Taylor, an endorsement of his replacement opens your position up to get demolished by 2 years of film of EeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeJ. Who sucks and sucks bad.

[TakeYouToTasker]

And you have this precisely wrong. Because the Bills top playmakers are out, and the OL is very bad,, TT is the best option at QB because he's the only playmaker left.

 

Let's hammer him is he continues to play poorly after Sammy and Shady return.

The offensive line has not been playing poorly, there have been instances of poor play, but they've been holding the pocket together for 3-4 seconds consistently, and aside from Henderson, have blocked well enough in the run game. The left side has been absolutely dominate.

 

With that said, Tyrod is no longer a valid choice with no playmakers, because he can't provide any consistency to the offense. He can't even get first downs. In the last two games buffalo didn't manage to cross the 50 until the second half. Tyrod's play making ability won't make a difference in most games under these conditions. We got very lucky that his 4 big plays were timely on Sunday, and that the Titans were held to 13 points at home by a phenomenal defense performance aided by the Titans' ultra conservative play calling. The exact same sort of offensive results got us crushed by a middling Giants team.

 

Without our playmakers, we need consistency from the QB position. That isn't Tyrod.

[GG]

Then based on your qualifiers, the Bills traded away that QB last month.

[Augie]

Boy did we dodge a bullet. Cassel playing behind this line with no running game and no Sammy would be a recipe for disaster.

No, I'm sure Cassel would still, at this very moment, be working on getting up field for that 3rd and 23.

[TakeYouToTasker]

...an endorsement of his replacement opens your position up to get demolished by 2 years of film of EeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeJ. Who sucks and sucks bad.

An endorsement of Tyrod opens your position up to get demolished by 2 years of film of TieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeRod. Who sucks and sucks bad.

Then based on your qualifiers, the Bills traded away that QB last month.

Like I said, I'm not responsible for roster construction.