Colorado Mike Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 It reminded me of the call vs. Baltimore a few years ago when our WR Lee Evans caught a pass and went into a scrum, the pile just stood there for about 5 seconds, then the ball fell out (probably from fatigue). It was in overtime. The Bills were at midfield, and in a good position to win. But Woods was stripped of the ball yesterday. He should have put his knee on the ground and moved on. Exactly. When multiple guys have you like that you should know you aren't going to break free and when they are working on stripping you just drop to a knee, your rear end or something to put yourself down before that can happen.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I remember a similar play many years ago in Baltimore vs. the Ravens where a Bills' TE was held up and stripped of the football. I believe one of many gaffes by Robert Royal. I think it might have even been in OT
26CornerBlitz Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I believe one of many gaffes by Robert Royal. I think it might have even been in OT Nope. It was Shawn Nelson.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Nope. It was Shawn Nelson. Whoops-- you're right. Though was there really any difference between those two total disappointments?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 nope. nice try though he was always going forward. never came to a stop even momentarily
Mr. WEO Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 He was stopped. Whistle should have blown play dead So you're saying the ref was watching the play, saying...this idiot didn't go out of bounds....well, I'm not going to blow the play dead then. Serves him right......? really? No, not really. Look, it's even simpler than that. A ref sees a player chose not to simply continue out of bounds, so he assumes that WR is intent on getting more YAC. He is going to see how the WR keeps pushing forward to get those yards he intends to get--as Woods keeps grinding forward. Maybe he was about to blow the whistle just as Woods was stripped. If it's close, don't cry when you don't get the call or when your guys poor gamble doesn't pay off. Sounds dumb, doesn't it? And I think that many here need to see the play again, and when it happened in the game, before talking about how he should have gone out of bounds. But that's the great thing about hindsight. Actually most of us commenting in the shoutbox said so at the time--why not just go OOB, stop the clock, no more yards could be had there. Nice try doc. It was a foolish move a more intelligent/disciplined player would not have made.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Whoops-- you're right. Though was there really any difference between those two total disappointments? Don't forget Lonnie Johnson.
Doc Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Actually most of us commenting in the shoutbox said so at the time--why not just go OOB, stop the clock, no more yards could be had there. Nice try doc. It was a foolish move a more intelligent/disciplined player would not have made. That's why I said you need to look at the play, and when it happened, again. It was midway through the 4th quarter with the Bills down 14 points. Woods caught the ball at the Bills' 19-yard line. near the sideline. Since his back was turned to the defenders, he spun around towards the middle of the field ostensibly to gain more yards because they still needed to get 81 yards to score a TD and then another TD, all in the space of 7-1/2 minutes. He had no idea who was behind him or that they'd strip the ball from him. You can fault him for allowing the ball to be stripped, but prior that he should have done.
Heels20X6 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 My old D coach in football taught us that when we really needed a turnover, let the RB/receiver move up slowly a yard at a time while we (the defense) swarmed him and tried to strip it out. Looks like the Giants were taught that too. On the opposite side of the field, the O was taught to recognize this and join the swarm either pushing their guy to the ground, out of bounds or being around the ball if it popped loose.
NoSaint Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 tough to tell whether he was moving forward or the guys were holding him up. He should have held on with both hands, put his head down and tried to get down. Would have made it obvious he was quitting on the play at which point the forward-progress rule would come into effect. It looked to me like he was trying to move himself forward while waiting for a whistle. He definitely appeared to be grinding forward trying to break free instead of giving up. Possibly just trying to protect himself but it was a fair call by the ref. My old D coach in football taught us that when we really needed a turnover, let the RB/receiver move up slowly a yard at a time while we (the defense) swarmed him and tried to strip it out. Looks like the Giants were taught that too. On the opposite side of the field, the O was taught to recognize this and join the swarm either pushing their guy to the ground, out of bounds or being around the ball if it popped loose. I might be crazy but when they zoomed out on the bradham missed tackle, were ther a couple guys kind of loafing instead of swarming? Seemed like Gilmore or Darby was just kind of standing around in the middle of the field in one shot but it was live and not what I was keying on
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 He was stood up but forward progress wasn't stopped. Look at it again. He could have simply ran out of bounds there but was stubborn. agreed Not a big fan of Woods. I think he is good but i will never forget how he acted his rookie season in regards to EJ. Selfish player. Might be the greatest person in the world off the field.
Doc Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 He definitely appeared to be grinding forward trying to break free instead of giving up. Possibly just trying to protect himself but it was a fair call by the ref. Looked like he was trying to get to the ground.
stevestojan Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Forward progress aside, was he in no way concerned about the !@#$ing clock?
Doc Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Forward progress aside, was he in no way concerned about the !@#$ing clock? Versus the 181 yards more they still needed to get, just to tie the game?
NoSaint Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Forward progress aside, was he in no way concerned about the !@#$ing clock? Was anybody? Seriously....
RevWarRifleman Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I can understand that. It is almost like they are holding Woods up while they work on stripping the ball Yes, much like the Ravens did holding up Scott Chandler as they stripped him of the ball several years ago.
fansince88 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 It reminded me of the call vs. Baltimore a few years ago when our WR Lee Evans caught a pass and went into a scrum, the pile just stood there for about 5 seconds, then the ball fell out (probably from fatigue). It was in overtime. The Bills were at midfield, and in a good position to win. But Woods was stripped of the ball yesterday. He should have put his knee on the ground and moved on. I believe the way he was hanging that he was trying that. The two on D were doing what they needed to keep him moving and upright to strip that ball.
What a Tuel Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Its actually quite simple...Because Woods was still making forward progress and advancing the ball position it was not called. Think about it this way...if he was 2 yards shy of the first but was still fighting and progressing towards it and the refs blew the whistle before he crossed it, you would blow a gasket and lose your mind stating he's still moving forward how can you blow it dead. You can't have it both ways. The rule clearly states that if the player is still advancing the ball then its not stopped for forward progress. The forward progress rule is there so that players can not be carried back wards or purposely held upright to push them back wards. Not protect against fumbles by a player successfully fighting for more yardage. Woods was definitively, and undisputedly still moving forward at the time of the strip. Therefore, by rule, and correctly called there was no stoppage for progress. I have a major issue with the refs yesterday on both TD calls, a couple missed PI calls, and a couple missed late hit calls on Taylor...but this one they got right. The problem I have with it is that although Woods was still fighting for progress, they were holding him up while stripping the ball. Maybe he should have just fallen down on the ground but at a certain point I don't think he could have without losing the football so he just had to try to hold on. No whistle was coming though so inevitably he was stripped. Edited October 5, 2015 by What a Tuel
Mr. WEO Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Looked like he was trying to get to the ground. Not even close. In fact, when he is stripped, he is still clearly still moving forward. Whether he is being pushed, pulled or under his own power, if he is moving forward, there can't be a whistle to stop play. In fact, there is a sliver of a second where he is not moving forward the whole play---then he continued forward. http://www.nfl.com/videos/buffalo-bills/0ap3000000549171/Giants-Prince-Amukamara-recovers-Bills-Robert-Woods-fumble
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