Bookie Man Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Yeah, and that letter and 25 cents will be worth 25 cents. This is really simple. When a Buffalo Bill taunts an opponent, he's getting flagged. When a Buffalo Bill shoves or punches an opponent after a whistle, he's getting flagged. When someone on the bench mouths off to an official, he's getting flagged. When an engaged defender gets spun around, the Bills O lineman is getting flagged. When an O lineman lunges at an engaged defender, he's getting flagged. It doesn't matter what the rulebook says, that's how the refs are calling that game, so that's what's going to happen. And no apology is going to change that. Until the Bills actually adjust to these realities, the SOS is going to happen. Ok I'm trying to look up chop block definitions, but I can't find where it says anything about lunging. Is this a new extention to the rule or something? Could you clarify the lunging aspect?
nkreed Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Thing is, the ref throws the flag just as the pass is released so he doesn't really know its going to be a TD. My beef is the over-officiating. The Ref "thinks" he sees a guy block low but if it's not 100% obvious why is he flagging it? My question from up thread still is Why is the referee watching the line?!? His responsibility is the quarterback!
Perry Turtle Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Ok I'm trying to look up chop block definitions, but I can't find where it says anything about lunging. Is this a new extention to the rule or something? Could you clarify the lunging aspect? It's the refs perception. He's sees Incognito dive, so he assumes he went low on an engaged player, so he makes the call. The rulebook, at that point, has nothing to do with the call. In that moment. he's not making the call based upon a scientific measurement, or a strict interpretation of the rulebook, he's making it on his perception of a guy going low on an engaged defender. So either you rely on a refs perception that the block was within the legal area (above the hip), which would be insane, because everything I hear is that the refs basically suck (and I believe they do), or you coach your team to avoid those situations by not leaving your feet to block engaged defenders unless your QBs health is in jeopardy.
Doc Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Lunging doesn't count for anything unless the defender's knees are struck. Again, not even close to what happened.
Bookie Man Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 It's the refs perception. He's sees Incognito dive, so he assumes he went low on an engaged player, so he makes the call. The rulebook, at that point, has nothing to do with the call. In that moment. he's not making the call based upon a scientific measurement, or a strict interpretation of the rulebook, he's making it on his perception of a guy going low on an engaged defender. So either you rely on a refs perception that the block was within the legal area (above the hip), which would be insane, because everything I hear is that the refs basically suck (and I believe they do), or you coach your team to avoid those situations by not leaving your feet to block engaged defenders unless your QBs health is in jeopardy. So lunging holds no bearing to the rule. So basically, the ref was wrong.
Doc Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 So lunging holds no bearing to the rule. So basically, the ref was wrong. Yup. And yup.
Perry Turtle Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 So lunging holds no bearing to the rule. So basically, the ref was wrong. Aside from the fact that the ref perceived lunging to equal hitting low, yea. Big surprise. They're probably wrong on half the calls they make (or don't make).
Captain Caveman Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 So lunging holds no bearing to the rule. So basically, the ref was wrong. Right, but as multiple people have mentioned, it's frequently called this way based on what the ref can see, so our guys need to be smarter and realize it might be called.
dave mcbride Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) I feel like it's worth mentioning again that the Bills still would have lost if the call hadn't been made. There was less than a minute to go and the success rate for onside kicks is quite low in game ending situations. Edited October 5, 2015 by dave mcbride
Perry Turtle Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Right, but as multiple people have mentioned, it's frequently called this way based on what the ref can see, so our guys need to be smarter and realize it might be called. Bingo. I feel like it's worth mentioning again that the Bills still would have lost if the call hadn't been made. There was less than a minute to go and the success rate for onside kicks is quite low in game ending situations. Especially since the Bills average 3 penalties on every onside kick they attempt.
Bookie Man Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Right, but as multiple people have mentioned, it's frequently called this way based on what the ref can see, so our guys need to be smarter and realize it might be called.I mean I get it, but I don't. If he didn't break the rules, there shouldn't be a flag. As is always the case. There's just too much grey area in officiating. I think that's something that everyone agrees on.
Thurmal34 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Problem was there was no need for RI to even touch the guy. Yep. Glenn had his guy taken care of. If that was Incognito's assignment, he should have gone high. Why give the refs a chance?
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 You say that now, until of course theres a play where he decides now not to help out on a block, the defender gets free and the QB is sacked and your screaming why Richie didn't help out and just stood around...... It was a blown call that the Bills will hear about when the league send out their apology letters. The referee defenders here can say all they want about intent or whatever, but the rule states thighs or lower, last time I checked the waist was above the thighs............. Were you watching with your eyes open? The guy was nowhere near the QB. Incognito could've laid there on his back and not done anything, and he wouldn't have gotten to Tyrod. Incognito's to blame for that.
Bookie Man Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Were you watching with your eyes open? The guy was nowhere near the QB. Incognito could've laid there on his back and not done anything, and he wouldn't have gotten to Tyrod. Incognito's to blame for that. Great points, but how is he to know this without seeing Tyrod?
apuszczalowski Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Were you watching with your eyes open? The guy was nowhere near the QB. Incognito could've laid there on his back and not done anything, and he wouldn't have gotten to Tyrod. Incognito's to blame for that. Yeah, my eyes were open, unlike many here and the refs, its how I was able to see that it wasn't a chop block because he didn't hit him at the thigh or lower They play didn't happen that far away from the QB. If Taylor doesn't throw it and decides to take off and run, which he could have done because there was an opening, Richie is going over to make the block to make sure the guy closest to the QB doesn't get loose and get to the QB. Plays happen quickly on the field and the linemen are taught to get out and block where ever they can to open up space and make sure guys don't get loose. He had no one else to block so he went to help with the closest guy to him.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 Yeah, my eyes were open, unlike many here and the refs, its how I was able to see that it wasn't a chop block because he didn't hit him at the thigh or lower They play didn't happen that far away from the QB. If Taylor doesn't throw it and decides to take off and run, which he could have done because there was an opening, Richie is going over to make the block to make sure the guy closest to the QB doesn't get loose and get to the QB. Plays happen quickly on the field and the linemen are taught to get out and block where ever they can to open up space and make sure guys don't get loose. He had no one else to block so he went to help with the closest guy to him. Get over it dude. That was an unnecessary play that he made. Whether it was a penalty or not, it wasn't needed. If he needed to make a play, he had plenty of time to block him high.
DC Greg Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 My question from up thread still is Why is the referee watching the line?!? His responsibility is the quarterback! Clearly Tyrod Taylor does not meet the NFL's criteria for being eligible for a late hit on the QB, so no need to look out for that one. Might as well see if there are some phantom calls on the line they can make against the Bills instead.
Freddie's Dead Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 He went lower than the other OL's engagement point, they'll call that every time. He should know better, and coaches should make sure our players know better. This. You can't expect the ref to make the correct call there. Hi-low, chop block. Hi, not-as-low-as-it-should-be-by-rule, chop block. Richie didn't even need to hit the guy, Cordy had him handled. Stupid play. Clearly Tyrod Taylor does not meet the NFL's criteria for being eligible for a late hit on the QB, so no need to look out for that one. Might as well see if there are some phantom calls on the line they can make against the Bills instead. Back-to-back plays with no late hit call. That's three times this year at least with no call or a picked up flag on Tyrod.
truth on hold Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 (edited) Clearly Tyrod Taylor does not meet the NFL's criteria for being eligible for a late hit on the QB, so no need to look out for that one. Might as well see if there are some phantom calls on the line they can make against the Bills instead. im not blaming the refs, im blaming the bills today for lack of discipline. but i think theres an element of truth in this and it applies to mobile QBs; vick has been getting the %@$& knocked out of him for years w/o roughing called Edited October 5, 2015 by JTSP
plenzmd1 Posted October 5, 2015 Posted October 5, 2015 I feel like it's worth mentioning again that the Bills still would have lost if the call hadn't been made. There was less than a minute to go and the success rate for onside kicks is quite low in game ending situations. Dave, I think this is the exact wrong point to make. #1) no matter time/ situation in game, a wrong call is a wrong call. #2) bills still had three timeouts and 53 seconds left, with Eli always capable of making boneheaded plays. That game is far from over if the TD counts. I would say Bills win % is like 15% there, but certainly not zero. 3) I am still pissed about the flag that was picked up earlier in the drive. No doubt Bills deserves what they got yesterday, but also o doubt the refs do not pick that flag up if it was Eli getting hit.
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