PlayoffsPlease Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) We picked up another team's backup QB and he looks decent so far. If the Ravens needed a different QB then Flacco, they would have started TT. They didn't. They didn't draft TT as their future starter. They drafted a backup QB. I don't know how this guy changes the way QBs are developed in the NFL. If you are drafting a QB in the first round, you aren't looking to develop him behind your current crappy starting QB. There is no way EJ would have spent the season on the bench behind Kevin "BUI" Kolb. You are one of the few posters to grasp the obvious. From 1999 (the year after Peyton Manning was drafted) through the 2014 draft exactly 200 QBs were drafted. 45 in the first round. About half of those first rounders started at least one game their rookie year. The reason they were first round draft picks is generally because GMs thought/hoped they would be ready to start early in their career. Almost no team drafts a QB in the first round thinking they will need to sit behind Fitzpatrick/Kolb/Hoyer type starters for 3 years before they are ready to go. Virtually none of the other 155 drafted QBs started games their first year, unless injury made it necessary (Dalton, Carr come to mind as exceptions). The common outcome for all drafted QB's is that the vast majority never become long term starters. If Taylor turns out to be a top QB, it will be a rarity, just like Brady or Romo. It won't because of some superior previously not understood "development" concept of a guy hanging on roster as a backup on a team that already had a good starter. Edited October 3, 2015 by PlayoffsPlease
flmike Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 the Patriots are doing it with Garappollo, the only problem is he stinks Garappollo will retire before Brady gives up his job.
Boatdrinks Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 It's still way too early to judge Tyrod, I'll give him the full year before passing judgement but so far he looks good, but so did Trent and Fitz. While I too would reserve judgement on Taylor as the body of work is too small, the early returns are good. To say that Fitz or especially Trent looked good is an overstatement. Neither was very good at intermediate or deep throws. I don't believe Trent ever had more than 2 TD passes in a game and most had 1. Bills fans had some irrational exuberance with previous QB's. TT seems to have something more than those two, and he's put up numbers that haven't been attained by a Bills QB through the first three games to start a season since 1991. The Bills fifteen year journey in the QB desert may be coming to an end.
Boatdrinks Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 Exactly why I'm being cautiously optimistic with Tyrod.... I've seen it before. Fitz looked awesome leading up to the Jets game in Orchard Park in the 2011 season.... Ironically Rex founded the blueprint on how to beat him. Take away the short stuff and make him beat you deep. Our offense and team went down the tubes the rest of the way. Fitz looked functional for a stretch but hardly awesome. His lack of arm talent was always fairly obvious and his INTs went way up when he had to throw over 15 yards . He was a smart QB with physical limitations. That is what is different with Tyrod. His biggest physical hindrance is his lack of ideal height for the position. But he seems very smart, has escapability and a good arm to go along with his seemingly unflappable demeanor. Bills fans overlooked obvious flaws with previous QBs after being starved for good QB play. TT is certainly not a perfect QB , but his weaknesses are less glaring than his predecessors.
metzelaars_lives Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 the Patriots are doing it with Garappollo, the only problem is he stinks Glad the verdict is in on him already. You do realize Taylor looked pretty bad in his limited opportunities prior to this year, right?
reddogblitz Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 I think letting a QB sit for a few years and understudy a solid QB is a great way to go. However it's not really practical since QBs rookie contracts give you 3 or 4 years and then many move on. So I think if you're a team like the Bills who need a QB should sign a guy who learned on someone else's dime. Look for a guy who was good in college but hass played little. This year I saw 3 candidates. TYrod, Kellen Moore, and Ryan Mallet. Looks like my theory has worked on TYrod, but not so much on Mallet. Next year doesn't look so good with this kind of QB. Maybe only Kellen Moore and possibly Matt McGloin.
ScrewyLouie Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 This was a pretty unique circumstance, and I agree that it was a great signing by Whaley (although he probably had TT pegged as a backup, let's be honest). It's likely that Tyrod has been a better QB than Flacco for the last couple years...but what were the Ravens going to do? Replace their SB winning QB with the backup after a winning season...no way. Everybody gets fired if that plan fails. Good on the Bills for recognizing TT's capabilities and capitalizing. I agree Whaley had no idea TT was going to pan out. The Bills didn't have a quarterback and they were desperate. Whaley had no choice but to take a flyer on any swinging dick that had a pulse. Whaley stepped into a bucket of poop and came out smelling like a rose. If Whaley was so smart about picking quarterbacks he wouldn't have drafted Manuel in the 1st round. TT was dumb luck, just like when the Pats drafted Brady in the 6th round. When they drafted Brady they didn't even know if he would make the team. If they would have known Brady was going to be as good as he is they wouldn't have waited for the 6th round to pick him. Tell me if Brady went into the draft now he wouldn't be the first player picked. Sal was saying the Bills have some tough decisions coming up with EJ. Do they pick up his option and wind up with another expensive backup? Don't be completely shocked if EJ is dealt. Doesn't he have another year after this before his contract is up? I could be wrong but I thought he signed a 4 year deal.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Doesn't he have another year after this before his contract is up? I could be wrong but I thought he signed a 4 year deal. I believe both Tyrod and EJ's contracts will be up at the end of the 2016 season.
The Wiz Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 I agree Whaley had no idea TT was going to pan out. The Bills didn't have a quarterback and they were desperate. Whaley had no choice but to take a flyer on any swinging dick that had a pulse. Whaley stepped into a bucket of poop and came out smelling like a rose. If Whaley was so smart about picking quarterbacks he wouldn't have drafted Manuel in the 1st round. TT was dumb luck, just like when the Pats drafted Brady in the 6th round. When they drafted Brady they didn't even know if he would make the team. If they would have known Brady was going to be as good as he is they wouldn't have waited for the 6th round to pick him. Tell me if Brady went into the draft now he wouldn't be the first player picked. Doesn't he have another year after this before his contract is up? I could be wrong but I thought he signed a 4 year deal.Both TT and EJ have expiring contacts after 2016 season(assuming they don't pick up EJ's option year)
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Sal was saying the Bills have some tough decisions coming up with EJ. Do they pick up his option and wind up with another expensive backup? Don't be completely shocked if EJ is dealt. When will the never ending crusade to rid Buffalo of a #1 draft pick stop?? The initial signing of Matt Cassel at what $4.5 Million, would that have been cheaper or more expensive than an extension of EJ would be? They didn't draft him to be their starter. He was their #4 QB. They completely lucked out. that was meant as sarcasm Kelly. The point of the comment was to indicate IMO the iinaccuracy of what WEO posted. You draft QB's for a reason, the same reason for any player. You draft for the future and hope they pan out and become a great contributor to your team. No? RGIII & McCoy. Both drafted early, both have 14 to 20ish starts.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 When will the never ending crusade to rid Buffalo of a #1 draft pick stop?? The initial signing of Matt Cassel at what $4.5 Million, would that have been cheaper or more expensive than an extension of EJ would be? much cheaper. I don't know how much Manuel's option is, but RG3's is ~16M guaranteed. Best case scenario Manuel's is ~12M, maybe?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 (edited) I believe both Tyrod and EJ's contracts will be up at the end of the 2016 season. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/ E.J. Manuel QB 25 3 4 yr $8,885,300 $2,221,325 $8,885,300 2017 Tyrod Taylor QB 26 5 3 yr $3,350,000 $1,116,667 $1,150,000 2017 Edited October 4, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Boatdrinks Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 When will the never ending crusade to rid Buffalo of a #1 draft pick stop?? The initial signing of Matt Cassel at what $4.5 Million, would that have been cheaper or more expensive than an extension of EJ would be? Crusade may be a bit strong, but make no mistake this could be an issue. We still aren't sure about Tyrod, though it's trending upward. The Bills will have the choice of picking up EJs 5th year option ( very expensive based on a formula) or he walks as a FA for nothing in return after year 4. They have no chance of an extension because he will not sign it. Why would he take a much less lucrative extension when the fifth year option says he's worth significantly more. A team with no QB would probably make that trade and pay starter money. These are just realities if TT is the Bills starter, not a crusade. Whaley will likely try to recoup some value as opposed to letting Manuel walk.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/ E.J. Manuel QB 25 3 4 yr $8,885,300 $2,221,325 $8,885,300 2017 Tyrod Taylor QB 26 5 3 yr $3,350,000 $1,116,667 $1,150,000 2017 ... 2017 Voidable (50% playing time in 2015 or 16, or on active roster 5 days after 2016 SB)
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 much cheaper. I don't know how much Manuel's option is, but RG3's is ~16M guaranteed. Best case scenario Manuel's is ~12M, maybe? That is why we need to see some verified figures and not speculate widely. WRT RGIII that ORG is f'd up.
ALF Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 EJ's 5th year option would be about $10.6 m http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25140831/agents-take-a-guide-to-fifth-year-options-for-2012-first-round-picks That's way too high if Taylor is a good starter.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Crusade may be a bit strong, but make no mistake this could be an issue. We still aren't sure about Tyrod, though it's trending upward. The Bills will have the choice of picking up EJs 5th year option ( very expensive based on a formula) or he walks as a FA for nothing in return after year 4. They have no chance of an extension because he will not sign it. Why would he take a much less lucrative extension when the fifth year option says he's worth significantly more. A team with no QB would probably make that trade and pay starter money. These are just realities if TT is the Bills starter, not a crusade. Whaley will likely try to recoup some value as opposed to letting Manuel walk. when it it brought up every week.... IMO it's a crusade. Why not give EJ a multi year contract with incentives WRT to becoming a starter where they can possibly renegotiate after a select number of games. If you are not sure you want him cut bate and move on. If you are comfortable then sign him for another few more years.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 when it it brought up every week.... IMO it's a crusade. Why not give EJ a multi year contract with incentives WRT to becoming a starter where they can possibly renegotiate after a select number of games. If you are not sure you want him cut bate and move on. If you are comfortable then sign him for another few more years. That depends on EJ. Does he agree to that kind of deal when the 5th year option money is an option? If we don't offer the option does he sign with us at all, or does he test the FA market? It'll be interesting to see what happens. For what it's worth, Sal's comment was specifically about us picking up his 10.6M 5th year option to guarantee retaining him.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 That depends on EJ. Does he agree to that kind of deal when the 5th year option money is an option? If we don't offer the option does he sign with us at all, or does he test the FA market? It'll be interesting to see what happens. For what it's worth, Sal's comment was specifically about us picking up his 10.6M 5th year option to guarantee retaining him. who knows, hard to say. Based on what I read, EJ said he wants to stay in Buffalo. Given that to be true, he might sign an extension over the 1 year option. Couldn't he ask for that $10 mil (+) guaranteed with a decent salary? Hate to see the Bills make a big mistake by jumping to the wrong conclusion.
Best Player Available Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 when it it brought up every week.... IMO it's a crusade. Why not give EJ a multi year contract with incentives WRT to becoming a starter where they can possibly renegotiate after a select number of games. If you are not sure you want him cut bate and move on. If you are comfortable then sign him for another few more years. Why not trade him and draft a true round 1 prospect? Not a guy that was a horrible reach (NIX?) How can as some say EJ is the future when I believe there is only a 7 month age differential? EJ like any QB will say " I can start somewhere" It's fair to give him his chance. Especially if TT continues to play like he is doing. paying crazy money for a clipboard holder will not happen. if the stars allign they could possibly get a 5th for him. I wish EJ the best perhaps Chan can turn him around.
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