ddaryl Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Accuracy is in large part fundamentals. You are right that some QBs have it and some never will. BUT... a large part of fundamentals is being comfortable and being confident and being coached well. A lot of guys take a lot of time to acclimate to the NFL. EJ over preseason was a great example of being uncomfortable and unconfident and not coached well for two years and his fundamentals broke down and his inaccuracy was glaring. This preseason that all changed because of the three aforementioned factors. Taylor had four years to get used to the speed and intricacies and studying of defenses. He's confident and comfortable because of it and he's accurate. He's also been coached very well for five years now. It can be honed, but it can not be taught, I stand by that statement regarding al QB's. You either have it or you don't .. EJ may get a little better at being a little more consistent but IMO he will always be maddeningly inaccurate at key times. It will never be cured I do not believe EJ can ever do what Tyrod is doing right now. With reads and accuracy. EJ can still be a solid QB but Tyrod can possibly turn out to be great Edited October 2, 2015 by ddaryl
26CornerBlitz Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 It can be honed, but it can not be taught, I stand by that statement regarding al QB's. You either have it or you don't .. EJ may get a little better at being a little more consistent but IMO he will always be maddeningly inaccurate at key times. It will never be cured I disagree. Accuracy can be improved significantly via better technique and repetition.
zonabb Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I didn't read this whole thread but it's basically been my point here for a while, that the expectation that QBs produce immediately and if not, they're garbage, smacks of the American mentality of entitlement and instant gratification. People treat the QB position like short term stock trading rather than long term investing. What makes it problematic is that day traders buy low and seek to sell high, owners buy high and sell low (cut). That's a fool's investment. I think there are a few key things here (I'll admit that I could never wrap my head around the EJ sucks after 14 starts mindset). The first is, obviously, teams way over draft QBs, which distorts expectations by fans and owners. Second, the over drafting is a symptom of low supply of NFL ready QBs and high demand. Third, and I think this was written about somewhere recently and Whaley was interviewed, is that QBs on college aren't running NFL offenses as much as in the past. And that probably won't change. Some say, well the NFL has to change. Not really, the reality is that the running and read option QB thing works in college because the QBs are often physically talented enough and the players on defense are not all NFL talents, creating a system whereby the pure athleticism wins out. That won't translate to the NFL because, as we've seen with tons of these types of high athletic ability QBs, NFL defenses are talented, basically college All-Star teams. If you take Robert Griffin (using him because of his meteoric collapse) when he was in college and he had to play every week against the defensive backfield of CBS's All-SEC team, which that year was CB Dre Kirkpatrick, CB Morris Claiborne, CB/S Tyrann Mathieu, and S Mark Barron, how would he have done, even if he had the best talent around him? Probably not as well as he did So why would anyone expect him to produce at the same level immediately and consistently in the NFL? Griffin had 22% of his touchdown passes that year against Stephen F. Austin (3) and Rice (5). Yeah he has some good games against ranked teams but again, the jump in competition doesn't bode well for lots of guys, not just RGIII. The norm in the future, absent a lot of QB talent, should be teams being clear with drafted QBs and fans that the player is going to sit and learn for a year or two behind a journeyman like Fitz.
ricojes Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I disagree. Accuracy can be improved significantly via better technique and repetition. I think so as well. And that goes for all sports, a basketball player can become a more accurate shooter, a pitcher can become a more accurate pitcher, a hockey player can gain a more accurate shot, and on and on. A lot of it is technique. Granted, some upper echelon athletes can be accurate with poor technique, they are just freaks. But a player can get better at any position with better technique and repetition...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 It can be honed, but it can not be taught, I stand by that statement regarding al QB's. You either have it or you don't .. EJ may get a little better at being a little more consistent but IMO he will always be maddeningly inaccurate at key times. It will never be cured I do not believe EJ can ever do what Tyrod is doing right now. With reads and accuracy. EJ can still be a solid QB but Tyrod can possibly turn out to be great Are you seriously bringing up accuracy after these past 2 weeks?
Big Gun Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 By the way the Bills are doing this now with EJ Manuel. So I don't believe #1 on your list is necessary. Disagree 100%. but, if they were, what does it matter, if they are doing that with EJ? If TT is the answer for the Bills, he is the QB for the forseeable future and EJ never sees the field, as TT is only 1 year older than EJ, I believe.
Malazan Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 What? When did this change? It's been like this for at least 10 years. before ten years ago...You answered your own question. Why am I here?
Mr. WEO Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 We picked up another team's backup QB and he looks decent so far. If the Ravens needed a different QB then Flacco, they would have started TT. They didn't. They didn't draft TT as their future starter. They drafted a backup QB. I don't know how this guy changes the way QBs are developed in the NFL. If you are drafting a QB in the first round, you aren't looking to develop him behind your current crappy starting QB. There is no way EJ would have spent the season on the bench behind Kevin "BUI" Kolb.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) We picked up another team's backup QB and he looks decent so far. If the Ravens needed a different QB then Flacco, they would have started TT. They didn't. They didn't draft TT as their future starter. They drafted a backup QB. I don't know how this guy changes the way QBs are developed in the NFL. If you are drafting a QB in the first round, you aren't looking to develop him behind your current crappy starting QB. There is no way EJ would have spent the season on the bench behind Kevin "BUI" Kolb. Didn't the Patriots** draft a 6th rounder to be their starter? What was his name.... Edited October 2, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Didn't the Patriots** draft a 6th rounder to be their starter? What was his name.... They didn't draft him to be their starter. He was their #4 QB. They completely lucked out.
Charles Romes Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 You didn't think Fitz and Edwards looked good ever? Specifically the first 6 games of the 2008 season for Trent and the first 7 games of the 2011 season for Fitz? Both these guys strung together a small sample of great games in which it looked like our QB situation was solved, only to discover they were aberrations. I'm just saying I hope that's not the case with Tyrod. Now that you mention it Fitz put together nearly a full year of good stats between the end of 2010 and beginning of 2011. His rating was around 100 at the top of the league during that time frame spanning two different seasons. Then he signed the contract and had one more good game before everything went south.
Solomon Grundy Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 It sure doesn't hurt.. but keep in mind Tyrod was pretty accurate thrower in college as well. Something I stand by that you can not teach. You can hone it but you either have the gift of consistent accuracy or you do not Tyrod was a career 57.7 completion pct. Manuel was slightly higher. I agree with the earlier poster that fundamentals and footwork can help improve accuracy
BuffaninATL Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I was thinking about this the other day. If TT succeeds in a big way, it could change the way the NFL looks at QBs in some ways. First, guys like him may get longer looks, rather than just going with the next new guy every year or every other year. But maybe more so, smaller, running QBs may get more looks. Russell Wilson was an aberration (I still think so until TT can do this more than a year or so). But now Taylor looks like lightning struck twice. The problem for teams doing this however, is that TT is a lot more than a QB who can run, and it doesn't even count the fact he has a rocket arm. He's also very smart, a great leader, very poised, and great work ethic. That's an impressive package and surely not all of these guys teams will be giving chances to have all of those invaluable traits. If TT succeeds he may indeed make the NFL powers that be look at the position differently. And they likely will fail because the guys they will be giving these chances to are not likely to have everything it takes. We may have struck gold but it's not that TT was never given a chance. It will be because he has an extraordinary assortment of talents that are just as unlikely to be found in a 6'4" guy as a 6'1" guy. solid post This was a pretty unique circumstance, and I agree that it was a great signing by Whaley (although he probably had TT pegged as a backup, let's be honest). It's likely that Tyrod has been a better QB than Flacco for the last couple years...but what were the Ravens going to do? Replace their SB winning QB with the backup after a winning season...no way. Everybody gets fired if that plan fails. Good on for the Bills for recognizing TT's capabilities and capitalizing. per your first point; I think that is speculative....I believe hindsight is 20/20. for sure - but isn't the TT signing what a competent GM is supposed to do? Identify soon to be free agents who have developed somewhere else, and on someone else's dime? on the second word I "fixed", sorry Sage, it's not directed at you, I just happen to hate this nouveau chic catchphrase which is oh so 2015. It's like hearing fingers on a chalkboard for me. I know, I know - there are far more important things to nitpick about. Call me OCD when it comes to spelling & grammar. GO BILLS
John from Riverside Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 two years at $20 million isn't really fitzpatrick money. On the other hand, Rex has already told us we have the QB of the present and the QB of the future on the roster, so there might not be any reason to keep Tyrod. If we bench or let TT loose after the way he is playing in favor of EJ Manuel I would be VERY upset There is the word "potential" and then there is the word "production" I choose production
BuffaninATL Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Tyrod was a career 57.7 completion pct. Manuel was slightly higher. I agree with the earlier poster that fundamentals and footwork can help improve accuracy what I have a greater concern about is Manuel's short pass inaccuracy ( almost like Steve Sax Syndrome), his inability to retain vision on plays as things break down around him, and his pocket presence.
machine gun kelly Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 God, I hope TT is who he looks like now. I know he had a bad game with the Pats, but still scored 32 points. I'm doing my best to table until we see a few more weeks. If we destroy the Giants and Titans, which we should, and then beat the Bengals who are hot, even if a tight game would be convincing of our franchise QB. I've been waiting as all of you for almost 20 years for a franchise QB. If we get one, my goodness we will be fantastic for years. Go Bills!!!!!!
BuffaninATL Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 God, I hope TT is who he looks like now. I know he had a bad game with the Pats, but still scored 32 points. I'm doing my best to table until we see a few more weeks. If we destroy the Giants and Titans, which we should, and then beat the Bengals who are hot, even if a tight game would be convincing of our franchise QB. I've been waiting as all of you for almost 20 years for a franchise QB. If we get one, my goodness we will be fantastic for years. Go Bills!!!!!! I am like THIS close to driving up to Nashville from ATL for the Titans game; would love to catch a roadie !
3rdand12 Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I am like THIS close to driving up to Nashville from ATL for the Titans game; would love to catch a roadie ! "Eric ( me) hipchecks BuffaninATL over the ledge" GO! You Fool!
PromoTheRobot Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 Sal was saying the Bills have some tough decisions coming up with EJ. Do they pick up his option and wind up with another expensive backup? Don't be completely shocked if EJ is dealt.
Chandler#81 Posted October 3, 2015 Posted October 3, 2015 This was a pretty unique circumstance, and I agree that it was a great signing by Whaley (although he probably had TT pegged as a backup, let's be honest). It's likely that Tyrod has been a better QB than Flacco for the last couple years...but what were the Ravens going to do? Replace their SB winning QB with the backup after a winning season...no way. Everybody gets fired if that plan fails. Good on the Bills for recognizing TT's capabilities and capitalizing. What's 'honest' about speculation? Trading for Cassel was a stop gap/Orton redeaux. Manuel had/has far more concerns than positives and Rex really wanted the FA on his team. For what? To back up Those 2?? Honestly?
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