FireChan Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 This used to be the way it was done as many QBs are not ready for the NFL. There was a string of a few special talents entering the league and doing very well so now the 1st round QB starts right away and you roll the dice hoping he gets it. What? When did this change? It's been like this for at least 10 years.
Bill from NYC Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) I was thinking about this the other day. If TT succeeds in a big way, it could change the way the NFL looks at QBs in some ways. First, guys like him may get longer looks, rather than just going with the next new guy every year or every other year. But maybe more so, smaller, running QBs may get more looks. Russell Wilson was an aberration (I still think so until TT can do this more than a year or so). But now Taylor looks like lightning struck twice. The problem for teams doing this however, is that TT is a lot more than a QB who can run, and it doesn't even count the fact he has a rocket arm. He's also very smart, a great leader, very poised, and great work ethic. That's an impressive package and surely not all of these guys teams will be giving chances to have all of those invaluable traits. If TT succeeds he may indeed make the NFL powers that be look at the position differently. And they likely will fail because the guys they will be giving these chances to are not likely to have everything it takes. We may have struck gold but it's not that TT was never given a chance. It will be because he has an extraordinary assortment of talents that are just as unlikely to be found in a 6'4" guy as a 6'1" guy. KTD, Pat Kirwin has been talking about sitting qbs for a few seasons for weeks now. He mentions Rodgers, Tyrod and yes, Ryan Mallett. Mallett has a 100 million dollar arm and a ten cent head. That said, he won a football game last week without his left tackle. He just might win some more games too. Maybe it helped him just to be on a team around people who know what they are doing, I don't know. Teams play the spread in college these days. It is SO different in the NFL and the transition seems to be taking longer. What I like about this is that in the scenario that Tyrod is the real deal, the trade value for EJ will increase, perhaps by a lot. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited October 2, 2015 by Bill from NYC
The Wiz Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) What? When did this change? It's been like this for at least 10 years. I guess it depends on where the player was drafted. Most guys drafted in the 1st round were expected to contribute quickly (especially the high draft picks). The guys drafted outside of the first round were expected to sit and learn unless they showed something the others didn't in camp. Even EJ at 16 was expected to be sitting his first year behind Kolb. As for Rodgers, I'm curious what would have happened if he was drafted where he was expected to go(top 10) instead of at 24. Edited October 1, 2015 by The Wiz
FireChan Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 I guess it depends on where the player was drafted. Most guys drafted in the 1st round were expected to contribute quickly (especially the high draft picks). The guys drafted outside of the first round were expected to sit and learn unless they showed something the others didn't in camp. Even EJ at 16 was expected to be sitting his first year behind Kolb. Yep, but it's been like that for a while. For every Rivers and Rodgers, you have at least 5 more guys who started out the gate. And those guys had the luxury of being first round talents and being behind entrenched starters.
Dragonborn10 Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 It has been three games. I hope it continues but my god can we just wait a little. As Romes pointed out we have been fooled before by Fitz, Losman, Edwards, and even Bledsoe for eight games. I was in the EJ camp. This kid seems more accurate on short and mid-range throws. I didn't like his pocket awareness against the Patriots. He should carve up the Giants this week. Let's hope he just keeps building on what he has done. And get a healthy Watkins back...
Dont Stop Billeiving Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 The thing is, it's not really even a debate. Mostly everyone agrees that it would be ideal for a QB to sit for at least a year, hold a clipboard, and learn as the backup. The problem is getting ownership, the FO/coaching staff, and the fan base to all sign up for that delayed gratification. Somewhere along the way (Luck and Co. being so good so fast didn't help), everyone got so impatient. It's early, but Tyrod has the athleticism and mental makeup of a real top-tier QB in this league that Trent and Fitz never did. Now the key is to draft a QB this year (maybe second to fourth round) to back him up and learn from Taylor the way he did from Flacco. Agree?
The Wiz Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Yep, but it's been like that for a while. For every Rivers and Rodgers, you have at least 5 more guys who started out the gate. And those guys had the luxury of being first round talents and being behind entrenched starters. Right. And I think Jeremy is saying the same thing. There was a period when the 1st round QB was guaranteed to be the starter come opening day in a specific time frame of generational talent and now they aren't as good or require the time to develop. Everyone was saying Winston would be fine and he's been looking like he needed a few years behind a vet to get into the game.
Nihilarian Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Its also not that uncommon for a perennial backup QB to finally get it, and become a decent starter for awhile. Fitz comes to mind. Yea, I do think that there is so much pressure on players to perform asap or they are given up on, and that happens on just about every position nowadays. The Patriots always seemed to be grooming a QB behind Brady for whatever reasons. So many teams still don't have their franchise QB so they don't have the luxury of allowing a QB to sit and learn for four years.
Herb Sewell Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 With the lack of true pocket passers in college, teams will either have to develop the read option/spread guys or adapt the offenses. Going with the premise that TT is The Guy, sitting a QB for a few seasons may be the surest way to find and develop that franchise guy. Or wait every 10 years for a Luck or a lucky late round gem. The instant starter franchise guy is the anomaly, yet every rookie is now expected to do just that. How many potential franchise guys were ruined when they were thrown to the fire rather than given time?
FireChan Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Right. And I think Jeremy is saying the same thing. There was a period when the 1st round QB was guaranteed to be the starter come opening day in a specific time frame of generational talent and now they aren't as good or require the time to develop. Everyone was saying Winston would be fine and he's been looking like he needed a few years behind a vet to get into the game. The way he said it made me think he meant it's a newer phenomena.
jeffismagic Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Patience, grasshopper. Little Jimmy is bulking up on HGH and getting a radio fitted in his helmet so his OC can tell him who's open during plays. So he's taking the Brady developmental path?
NoSaint Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I believe they can renegotiate but I don't know how anyone would be able to convince a player to take less money over a longer period of time. It's likely he will be released and not extended as a result of it. Ummm.... Easy. "We will not exercise your option, would you like to negotiate a deal to stay or go to free agency? No matter what you are not being paid in the same zip code of the option, yet along ball park." And then he decides if he believes in this staff for his long term future or wants a more immediate shot to compete
K-9 Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Sitting and learning for a few seasons is the ideal scenario. Just as important is the situation that QB is sitting and learning in. In the case of Rodgers and TT, it was ideal. Both learned behind SB winners and coaching staffs that knew how to teach. Ultimately, it comes down to the individual of course, and for my money, Taylor's combination of intelligence and work ethic will ensure he succeeds. The learning curve from week 2 to week 3 was obvious. Yes, Roman tweaked a couple things for him, but you could tell Taylor learned from watching that NE**** tape. Impressive stuff. GO BILLS!!!
Beef Jerky Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 So he's taking the Brady developmental path? Not really Brady's... The Devil has last say on who is next in line to sell their soul. Only if one accepts will Brady be granted his freedom and soul back. So it probably won't happen.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Sitting and learning for a few seasons is the ideal scenario. Just as important is the situation that QB is sitting and learning in. In the case of Rodgers and TT, it was ideal. Both learned behind SB winners and coaching staffs that knew how to teach. Ultimately, it comes down to the individual of course, and for my money, Taylor's combination of intelligence and work ethic will ensure he succeeds. The learning curve from week 2 to week 3 was obvious. Yes, Roman tweaked a couple things for him, but you could tell Taylor learned from watching that NE**** tape. Impressive stuff. GO BILLS!!! Very true. Still, IMO the amount of sixth round QBs who sit for four years and then play versus ones that are cut before then or play and are discarded are probably close to being equal. There is a reason there are only 15 people on earth who can do this job well. Tyrod is playing well more because he has a boatload of mad skills, and his head on straight, and great coaching, more than other late round picks in his position would have also succeeded like he has.
TheJuice Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I'm as excited as anyone about the prospect of Tyrod being the guy. Defenses are just beginning to build a book on him and there are many that fade out of the league quickly defenses start taking away their best stuff. Just from the bills look at Doug Fluties drop off between 98 and 99, Losman had a promising year in 06, Trent fooled everyone for over a year (bill Walsh saw something in the.kid...). Fitz was awarded a big contract based on a 5 game sample under Chans system. Late this year we may have serious discussions about whether Tyrod is any good. It won't be until 2017 until we' have a really good idea Right on. I don't want to take anything at all away from Taylor but this is a legitimate concern. Being "new", with Greg Roman, and having so many skilled guys to feed the ball to is propping him up big-time. Roman's approach to the game, especially the ground game, along with his experiences with Kaep, Alex Smith and now Tyrod may be unprecedented in the NFL. I feel like Roman is much better equipped than previous regimes at staying a step ahead on adjustments. I feel like his influence could be strong enough to make Tyrod want to follow him actually. Our success offensively could be 75% Roman. I think any of the QBs in the race could have good numbers at this stage. I love Tyrod so far, and that's fine with me if it's as much or more Roman and supporting cast as it is Tyrod. That all said, most of his throws have been on the money and when he misses, it's always the right way to miss. He keeps it nice and low over the middle. Time will tell with Tyrod. I already know Roman is the man.
The Wiz Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Ummm.... Easy. "We will not exercise your option, would you like to negotiate a deal to stay or go to free agency? No matter what you are not being paid in the same zip code of the option, yet along ball park." And then he decides if he believes in this staff for his long term future or wants a more immediate shot to compete If it were a qb that has been around the league and everyone knew what he was capable of sure, but for a qb on a rookie contact that has shown enough to hang on to it might be a bit harder. I'm not saying it's not possible but there are probably other teams that will be more desperate was my point about not giving him the 5th year and signing him for more than he's worth.
K-9 Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Very true. Still, IMO the amount of sixth round QBs who sit for four years and then play versus ones that are cut before then or play and are discarded are probably close to being equal. There is a reason there are only 15 people on earth who can do this job well. Tyrod is playing well more because he has a boatload of mad skills, and his head on straight, and great coaching, more than other late round picks in his position would have also succeeded like he has. Agree entirely. It all starts with the player. Suffice to say, TT was never your average 6th rd. quarterback even when he was a sixth round QB. Needless to say, player evaluation, especially for QBs, is about as far from an exact science as it gets. GO BILLS!!!
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Agree entirely. It all starts with the player. Suffice to say, TT was never your average 6th rd. quarterback even when he was a sixth round QB. Needless to say, player evaluation, especially for QBs, is about as far from an exact science as it gets. GO BILLS!!! Yup. That's why this seems and may be different. There are a ton of little things that make me believe TT may be the guy and it's only half because of his play so far. Listening to Bills players talk about him is different. He's totally in control. They think he has command of the huddle and the offense. He's the first to arrive and last to leave. Rex gave the team the choice of what to wear between sweats and casual attire and he wore a suit, saying if I'm the leader of this team I want to set an example. The poise he has shone waiting for the right moment to throw is something that is tough to be taught. I don't want to go overboard but I have long professed that there are 20+ elements to being a good QB in this league and he has a ton of them.
K-9 Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Right on. I don't want to take anything at all away from Taylor but this is a legitimate concern. Being "new", with Greg Roman, and having so many skilled guys to feed the ball to is propping him up big-time. Roman's approach to the game, especially the ground game, along with his experiences with Kaep, Alex Smith and now Tyrod may be unprecedented in the NFL. I feel like Roman is much better equipped than previous regimes at staying a step ahead on adjustments. I feel like his influence could be strong enough to make Tyrod want to follow him actually. Our success offensively could be 75% Roman. I think any of the QBs in the race could have good numbers at this stage. I love Tyrod so far, and that's fine with me if it's as much or more Roman and supporting cast as it is Tyrod. That all said, most of his throws have been on the money and when he misses, it's always the right way to miss. He keeps it nice and low over the middle. Time will tell with Tyrod. I already know Roman is the man. While I appreciate the spirit of this post, I can't agree with the idea that Roman is 75% of TT's success. It always comes down to a player's ability to assimilate knowledge and execute. Taking nothing away from Roman, but the world is littered with bright football minds that never had the QB to transfer his game from the classroom to the practice field to the game. Roman has done well at putting players in a position to succeed, but it's those players that have realized the success on the field of play. GO BILLS!!!
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