JohnC Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I was badmouthing hi for what he did to the offense for half the season, as were a lot of fellow posters here. It wasn't because of how he left, we were thrilled he left for any reason. Many people here were highly critical of how he handled the offense last year as it was happening, not in retrospect. If TT, Clay, Harvin, Miller, Incognito, Williams were members of the offense last year do you doubt that the coach you have a lot of venom for would have had his team in the playoffs? He had a flaccid offense because too many of his players on that side of the ball lacked potency. Bring out the punt team. No one cares that he's gone. The team would be in a worse place if he stayed. Evidently there are a lot of people who are disgruntled that he left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I haven't been a big fan of Whaley, but I'm impressed by what he's done this past year. Some of the best-performing players on the roster were added this off-season. Our best wide receiver is Harvins; the best cornerback is Darby; the best offensive lineman is Incognito; the best running back is Karlos Williams; our best tight end is Clay; and of course the best quarterback is Taylor. All of them are not only the best at their position on the Bills; they rank among the best in the league. That's pretty good shooting! Gotta give Whaley some credit on drafting Darby and Karlos Williams as they had some character issues by which teams shied away from both players. I like that Whaley has no problem taking a risk on players like that, Incognito, Harvin and Henderson as they all are proving to be well worth the risk. Marv Levy as GM wanted the high character, nice boy type, but those guys weren't great, let alone good players. Also gotta give credit to Whaley for not resigning guys like Byrd, Spiller and Levitre. Byrd has yet to play for the Saints this season and if I'm not mistaken he barely played last year? Levitre has been a flop outside of Buffalo. Spiller is barely being used in New Orleans and has been hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 How can you wreck the offense when you don't have an offense? He had the worst OL in the league and he had a second-rate backup qb who joined the team out of shape because he didn't work out intending to retire. What is wrong with exercising an option that he had in his contract? Players, coaches, front office staff certainly do the same thing. He was a back door candidate for the University of Michigan job. He was willing to take the risk of leaving a HC job because he was determined to leave the situation he was in. There is nothing unusual with someone taking a job and then realizing that he wasn't happy with the job for a variety of reasons. If someone doesn't want to be with the organization for whatever reason then leaving is the right thing to do. He can establish whatever conditions he wants to push. If the bosses say no then it is no. If you find him to be so distateful as a HC and person then you should be celebrating that he left instead of criticizing that he left. As I said in another post he did the organization a favor with his departure because the franchise was able to find a better organizational fit. Don't forget Jackson and Spiller were injured for half the year. It was remarkable that we finished 9-7. Fans didn't like Marrone so they gave all the credit to Schwarz and the defense. True they did great, but for some reason it became "fact" around here that they did well despite Marrone. It's pretty obvious things like that bothered him. Imagine working your ass off, dealing with cancer, and turning around a vicious losing culture and then being hated by the fanbase that only gives some other guy credit. I would leave too. It's downright savvy he took $5M doing something he wanted to do. Fans keep kicking him because they feel abandoned. He left on his terms and that bothers many fans. There's some sort of deep insecurity he touched and that's why everybody is so butt-hurt even though he's the one with $5M in the bank coaching in FL. By the way, the Jaguars look improved. How about that. You two are hilarious. Trust me, I am celebrating that Marrone left, but to characterize him as some sort of victim or selfless martyr is ridiculous. You criticize the Bills' OL and yet that was supposed to be Marrone's specialty. The returning OL players have mentioned there were "too many cooks in the kitchen" under Marrone. Marrone made the brilliant decision to have an OC who had no pro experience in that capacity, and didn't hire a QB coach despite the fact he was starting a rookie QB. That's idiotic. You make fun of Orton, but even he regressed as the season went on. I've mentioned it in many threads -- nearly every offensive player regressed during Marrone's tenure, while the defense went in the opposite direction. As for his great decision to walk away from the Bills -- look where he is now! He's the stinking OL coach for one of the worst two or three teams in the league. Who looks at that decision and says, "good for you, Doug, for sticking up for yourself." It's ludicrous! If not for that 5M buyout Marrone would never have walked away from the Bills. I'm thankful his agent negotiated it into his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 If TT, Clay, Harvin, Miller, Incognito, Williams were members of the offense last year do you doubt that the coach you have a lot of venom for would have had his team in the playoffs? He had a flaccid offense because too many of his players on that side of the ball lacked potency. Evidently there are a lot of people who are disgruntled that he left! That's a ridiculous statement and obvious answer. I was talking about what he did with the players he had. He screwed them up. They all played worse except for Hogan. We had one of the better running games in the league the year before and he screwed that up. He put guys in positions they couldn't play those positions. He kept guys on the bench that could play. He didn't play to his strengths (Watkins and Woods). He didn't let his QB play like his QB plays so his QB gave up. He overused guys that couldn't play (Lee Smith). He had terrible game plans and playcalling and groupings. Things that actually worked he quickly abandoned. He was an adequate HC and he was an AWFUL offensive coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) You criticize the Bills' OL and yet that was supposed to be Marrone's specialty. The returning OL players have mentioned there were "too many cooks in the kitchen" under Marrone. Marrone made the brilliant decision to have an OC who had no pro experience in that capacity, and didn't hire a QB coach despite the fact he was starting a rookie QB. That's idiotic. You forgot starting Pears at Guard. There was little to no chance of him succeeding at that position. He is a RT. Period. Edited October 2, 2015 by Bill from NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Don't forget Jackson and Spiller were injured for half the year. It was remarkable that we finished 9-7. Fans didn't like Marrone so they gave all the credit to Schwarz and the defense. True they did great, but for some reason it became "fact" around here that they did well despite Marrone. It's pretty obvious things like that bothered him. Imagine working your ass off, dealing with cancer, and turning around a vicious losing culture and then being hated by the fanbase that only gives some other guy credit. I would leave too. It's downright savvy he took $5M doing something he wanted to do. Fans keep kicking him because they feel abandoned. He left on his terms and that bothers many fans. There's some sort of deep insecurity he touched and that's why everybody is so butt-hurt even though he's the one with $5M in the bank coaching in FL. By the way, the Jaguars look improved. How about that. No idea where this came from because I for one was doing back flips that he opted to leave, and my biggest concern was that his lame brained choice for an OC would remain with the team after he left. Doug Marrone stunk as a head coach IMO primarily because he ignored the offense, and helped out his buddy the ST coach. Fans seem to forget that the team would always keep the extra ST players active and the players that could actually help the ailing offense inactive. I don't know anybody who isn't happy the guy is gone from Buffalo! Then or now. Edited October 2, 2015 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 You forgot starting Pears at Guard. There was little to no chance of him succeeding at that position. He is a RT. Period. That was an egregious error of judgment that backfired 100% and clearly hurt the team, something no other coach would have done. A tall, slow, non-athletic RT playing OG is preposterous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 You two are hilarious. Trust me, I am celebrating that Marrone left, but to characterize him as some sort of victim or selfless martyr is ridiculous. You criticize the Bills' OL and yet that was supposed to be Marrone's specialty. The returning OL players have mentioned there were "too many cooks in the kitchen" under Marrone. Marrone made the brilliant decision to have an OC who had no pro experience in that capacity, and didn't hire a QB coach despite the fact he was starting a rookie QB. That's idiotic. You make fun of Orton, but even he regressed as the season went on. I've mentioned it in many threads -- nearly every offensive player regressed during Marrone's tenure, while the defense went in the opposite direction. As for his great decision to walk away from the Bills -- look where he is now! He's the stinking OL coach for one of the worst two or three teams in the league. Who looks at that decision and says, "good for you, Doug, for sticking up for yourself."It's lth udicrous! If not for that 5M buyout Marrone would never have walked away from the Bills. I'm thankful his agent negotiated it into his contract. With respect to the top highlighted portion if you think I consider him a victim or martyr you have not carefully read my responses. With respect to the lower highlighted portion DM has a right to make whatever decision he wants regarding his career. Whether it is the right decsion or not it is on him. He exercised his prerogative and left on his own volition. Who cares whether it was a good decision or not? It's business, not yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 No idea where this came from because I for one was doing back flips that he opted to leave, and my biggest concern was that his lame brained choice for an OC would remain with the team after he left. Doug Marrone stunk as a head coach, and I don't know anybody who isn't happy the guy is gone from Buffalo! Then or now. If you want to rag on Russ Brandon for anything it's hiring Doug Marrone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 You forgot starting Pears at Guard. There was little to no chance of him succeeding at that position. He is a RT. Period. Whether Pears played RG or LT he was inadequate. He was barely a functional player whose limited skills at that point of his career were diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Whether Pears played RG or LT he was inadequate. He was barely a functional player whose limited skills at that point of his career were diminished. I wasn't calling him a young Erik Williams. That said John, the Bills have fielded MUCH worse at RT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 With respect to the lower highlighted portion DM has a right to make whatever decision he wants regarding his career. Whether it is the right decsion or not it is on him. He exercised his prerogative and left on his own volition. Who cares whether it was a good decision or not? It's business, not yours. John, you've stated that Marrone did an "honorable" thing by stepping away from a situation he couldn't work in. I call b.s. Has anyone ever proven he truly did walk away on his own? It's been floated that perhaps Pegula suggested he leave and take his 4M to "save face" or he would be relieved of his duties. The lack of "shock" from Pegula, Whaley, Brandon, etc., does speak volumes. Anyway, it's all sort of ridiculous. I think Marrone's an arrogant arse, and the Bills are better today because he is gone. Do I wish for him to fail in his current and future endeavors. Yes, a bit. The Bills are a part of me in a sense, so when Marrone walked away he stuck his big fat middle finger in my face. Buffalo getting to the playoffs and winning a championship with an exciting team that plays great offense will be the best revenge, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) You forgot starting Pears at Guard. There was little to no chance of him succeeding at that position. He is a RT. Period. Yep, and rookie OG Cyril Richardson for the first four games as the starting LG over Urbik. Richardson is on the Bills practice squad this year. The team benches EJ, and the same week replaces the rookie at LG. This stuff leads me to believe that Marrone had no clue. Edited October 2, 2015 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 No idea where this came from because I for one was doing back flips that he opted to leave, and my biggest concern was that his lame brained choice for an OC would remain with the team after he left. Doug Marrone stunk as a head coach IMO primarily because he ignored the offense, and helped out his buddy the ST coach. Fans seem to forget that the team would always keep the extra ST players active and the players that could actually help the ailing offense inactive. I don't know anybody who isn't happy the guy is gone from Buffalo! Then or now. In general, people just couldn't stop going at him all off-season. Even now he's some sort of punchline. He had his warts, but they brought him in for his reputation for turning losing cultures into winning cultures and he did his job. He did it in a way fans didn't like, but he did it. 9-7 folks, should've been 10-6 if not for us looking past Oakland. 11-5 if Bryce Brown didn't fumble at the goalline. Would've been our best record since Wade Phillips. In my opinion and my definition, he was a tremendous organizer and team leader. He did his job and helped lay the foundation for the Bills today. He showed up and recognized that the problem was the team's attitude, the local media's attitude, and the fan's attitude. He got annoyed many times and dealt with it the only way he knew how, by picking fights. He didn't have Rex's charisma, but he did what he could. Eventually it was too much for him. I don't care about his personality and I don't care that our offense was futile and that he hired some no name as OC. All I cared about were wins and turning around the culture and that's what he did. We didn't want him here, he didn't want to be here, so he left. Now we bring in a new QB, an elite RB, and elite WR, and top notch TE, a pro-bowl guard and one year older lineman, and people think Marrone would've done worse? Cut the BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I like Doug. I think he's good at his job. Wish he handled the FJ situation a lot better than he did. Hope he learns from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 In general, people just couldn't stop going at him all off-season. Even now he's some sort of punchline. He had his warts, but they brought him in for his reputation for turning losing cultures into winning cultures and he did his job. He did it in a way fans didn't like, but he did it. 9-7 folks, should've been 10-6 if not for us looking past Oakland. 11-5 if Bryce Brown didn't fumble at the goalline. Would've been our best record since Wade Phillips. In my opinion and my definition, he was a tremendous organizer and team leader. He did his job and helped lay the foundation for the Bills today. He showed up and recognized that the problem was the team's attitude, the local media's attitude, and the fan's attitude. He got annoyed many times and dealt with it the only way he knew how, by picking fights. He didn't have Rex's charisma, but he did what he could. Eventually it was too much for him. I don't care about his personality and I don't care that our offense was futile and that he hired some no name as OC. All I cared about were wins and turning around the culture and that's what he did. We didn't want him here, he didn't want to be here, so he left. Now we bring in a new QB, an elite RB, and elite WR, and top notch TE, a pro-bowl guard and one year older lineman, and people think Marrone would've done worse? Cut the BS. It really is heart-warming that Doug's family still visits the board. News flash -- Marrone showed no evidence of an ability to put together a competent offense. Look at the way he used Sammy! When you tout yourself as an offensive guru and OL specialist, yet every player on that side of the ball regresses under your tutelage, you no longer get the benefit of the doubt. Another news flash -- looking past Oakland is on Doug. The KC fumble was nobody's fault but Brown's (and Chandler's), but the Bills still had the ball in position to win and their flaccid offense couldn't punch it in. And are you really counting the Pats*** win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) It really is heart-warming that Doug's family still visits the board. News flash -- Marrone showed no evidence of an ability to put together a competent offense. Look at the way he used Sammy! When you tout yourself as an offensive guru and OL specialist, yet every player on that side of the ball regresses under your tutelage, you no longer get the benefit of the doubt. Another news flash -- looking past Oakland is on Doug. The KC fumble was nobody's fault but Brown's (and Chandler's), but the Bills still had the ball in position to win and their flaccid offense couldn't punch it in. And are you really counting the Pats*** win? I always felt it was the lamest argument tactic to accuse somebody defending a certain person to be that person or a member of his family. You're trying to paint a picture that my stance is so pathetic that only a family member can defend it. Why don't you argue the point on it's merits instead of using high school debate tactics. I always raise an eyebrow when somebody starts a reply with a backhanded ad-hominem. Why are you afraid to just counter my point, why feel the need to insult? I never said Marrone was an offensive guru. I said he was brought here to turn the culture around and he did. Whether you like HOW he did it, doesn't really matter to me as much as the end result. A common topic is how he was supposed to be a great OL coach and our Oline sucked. Well, if we ignore personnel, the best I can say is that Marrone was a 1st time head coach who had a lot on his plate. He may not have had the time to coach the Oline himself. He made plenty of mistakes, like the QB injury debacle his 1st year, but he admitted his mistake and they fixed it by bringing in Orton the 2nd year. Hell, that "mistake" was as much on Whaley as Marrone. There's no guarantee he couldn't have fixed whatever was wrong during this offseason if he stayed. I mean, the Jags Oline looked solid vs the Dolphins. Sure some of the fault in the losses falls on Marrone, but I think it's stretching it to somehow find a way to take the blame from Bryce Brown and pin it on Marrone. Every close victory in NFL history was dependent on a player NOT making one more critical mistake at some point in the game. Edited October 2, 2015 by musichunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I never said Marrone was an offensive guru. I said he was brought here to turn the culture around and he did. Whether you like HOW he did it, doesn't really matter to me as much as the end result. A common topic is how he was supposed to be a great OL coach and our Oline sucked. Well, if we ignore personnel, the best I can say is that Marrone was a 1st time head coach who had a lot on his plate. He may not have had the time to coach the Oline himself. He made plenty of mistakes, like the QB injury debacle his 1st year, but he admitted his mistake and they fixed it by bringing in Orton the 2nd year. Hell, that "mistake" was as much on Whaley as Marrone. There's no guarantee he couldn't have fixed whatever was wrong during this offseason if he stayed. I mean, the Jags Oline looked solid vs the Dolphins. Sure some of the fault in the losses falls on Marrone, but I think it's stretching it to somehow find a way to take the blame from Bryce Brown and pin it on Marrone. Every close victory in NFL history was dependent on a player NOT making one more critical mistake at some point in the game. I don't see how going 6-10, and then 9-7 (which would have been 8-8 had the game any real meaning for the super bowl champs) is turning the culture around. "IF" the team had made the playoffs last year, then yes. I would agree he changed the culture. But, the Bills didn't win that game against a lowly 2-12 team! Marrone was an arrogant jackass who nicknamed himself St Doug. Yet he didn't pull off any miracles in Buffalo, and he was carried by his defensive coordinators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToGoGo Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I don't see how going 6-10, and then 9-7 (which would have been 8-8 had the game any real meaning for the super bowl champs) is turning the culture around. "IF" the team had made the playoffs last year, then yes. I would agree he changed the culture. But, the Bills didn't win that game against a lowly 2-12 team! Marrone was an arrogant jackass who nicknamed himself St Doug. Yet he didn't pull off any miracles in Buffalo, and he was carried by his defensive coordinators. 4 previous seasons before Marrone: 6-10 6-10 4-12 6-10 Let's go further back: 7-9 7-9 7-9 5-11 He turned it around. If you don't give credit for the Pats win, then you should consider we lost to the Chiefs because of a fumble at the end zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroi Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) You're making a lot of good points, Music. There is no doubt Doug changed our culture. Keep up the good work. Imo Edited October 2, 2015 by Leroi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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