RyanC883 Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 I agree with everything being stated about Whaley, first top level GM that's been here in quite awhile. This thread talks about how are we going to be able to re-sign all these players. Taking it another direction. What about re-signing Whaley?? Read in another thread he's a FA after this year, GM contracts typically expire May 1st, but still less than a year away. Haven't heard anything about contract talks. Makes me a little nervous, does ne not want to be here, did the talk of bringing in an outside football guy annoy him to the point h wants to go elsewhere? Could he be pulling a John Butler and not signing an extension? On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being certain we're going to lose him, I'll put my fear level at around a 3 or 4, but as time goes on, that will go up if he doesn't sign. Or is it just a formality?? Or was the other post wrong about the contract expiring next year?? I was wondering about this today as well. He is from Pittsburgh, and the Steelers just resigned their GM (mistake in my opinion). So he's not "going home," so I can think of a reason he wouldn't stay. Pegula certainly has to be impressed w/ his work.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Totally agree and this is a really good post John. Marrone is a good football coach IMO (just an insecure individual). His team was prepared and played a physical style. His personality was his problem. Oh, and his offense.
RyanC883 Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Totally agree and this is a really good post John. Marrone is a good football coach IMO (just an insecure individual). His team was prepared and played a physical style. His personality was his problem. I think you need to have a good personality to be an effective NFL head coach. Marrone totally lacked that, which is why he is back where he belongs in the NFL as a positional coach.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Oh, and his offense. To me that goes to the insecure part and surrounding yourself with a nonthreatening offensive coach. Imagine if he had Roman for example? It was one thing to have a good DC but he never would have had someone with power on his side of the ball IMO.I think you need to have a good personality to be an effective NFL head coach. Marrone totally lacked that, which is why he is back where he belongs in the NFL as a positional coach. It's funny b/c I think he's better served as a HC. His teams were prepared and hit hard but he wasn't an "X and O" guy IMO. He was the organizer.
Nihilarian Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Totally agree and this is a really good post John. Marrone is a good football coach IMO (just an insecure individual). His team was prepared and played a physical style. His personality was his problem. Really Kirby? Marrone seemed more intent on helping his friend the ST coach, and basically neglected what was going on with the offense. Coming from an offensive background as the Saints OC you would think that he would have had major input into what was going on with the offense besides up the middle 70% of the time with Spiller, and Jackson the first season. Then letting his OC go crazy calling pass plays before his second year QB was ready for that in year two. Then once he had Orton under center they basically just called 40+ passes a game, and almost ignored the run game. Kyle Orton carried that 2014 offense despite the bad offensive coaching. Marrone with an offensive background and his offenses stunk, and were no better then around 20th each year. No QB coach the first year with a bunch of rookie QB's, really? That singular move was about the most stupid thing I've ever seen a HC do in his first year. The only thing Marrone had over Chan Gailey was the hiring of DC Mike Pettine, and then DC Jim Schwartz. Then I'm pretty certain that Russ Brandon / Doug Whaley hired the former, and might have had a strong hand in hiring the latter. If Gailey had hired Mike Pettine from the start he would have done a lot better then 6-10, and perhaps might even still be the Bills HC.
JohnC Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Oh, and his offense. Greg Roman is an excellent OC. However, I don't care how innovative he is or anyone else is with the caliber of OL and the caliber of qbing we had last year no OC would have been successful on. Is Greg Roman a better OC than Hackett? Absolutely. What would he have done differently on offense that could have overcome a limited veteran qb who had less mobility than Stephen Hawking without the wheel chair and an offensive line that couldn't hold back a defensive line full of Rosie O'Donnells? The talent on offensive is dramatically upgraded from last year. You don't think the addition of TT, Incognito, Clay, Miller, Harvin has made a difference compared to the slugs that staffed the offense last year? The bottom line is that the insufferable Doug Marrone had a team that always played hard. The 9-7 record that the team had not only reflected its talent level but slightly went beyond it. Being a diiiick doesn't mean that one is incompetent. Being a diiick is simply being a diiick. Edited October 1, 2015 by JohnC
Bill from NYC Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 I am hoping that we identify and draft a Left Tackle in this next draft...... That is where I am at.......I dont want to draft a QB anymore History tells you not to count on it John.
r00tabaga Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 Wish he could have kept Fred, but I understand why. His vision was to free up money for our FAs and developing Karlos. Drafts have been good, especially 2015.
Nihilarian Posted October 1, 2015 Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Greg Roman is an excellent OC. However, I don't care how innovative he is or anyone else is with the caliber of OL and the caliber of qbing we had last year no OC would have been successful on. Is Greg Roman a better OC than Hackett? Absolutely. What would he have done differently on offense that could have overcome a limited veteran qb who had less mobility than Stephen Hawking without the wheel chair and an offensive line that couldn't hold back a defensive line full of Rosie O'Donnells? The talent on offensive is dramatically upgraded from last year. You don't think the addition of TT, Incognito, Clay, Miller, Harvin has made a difference compared to the slugs that staffed the offense last year? The bottom line is that the insufferable Doug Marrone had a team that always played hard. The 9-7 record that the team had not only reflected its talent level but slightly went beyond it. Being a diiiick doesn't mean that one is incompetent. Being a diiick is simply being a diiick. Yet that QB still went 7-5, and threw for 3018 yards, 18 TD's, in only 12 games. With a completion percentage of 64.2%, and I agree he did all that with the worst rated offensive line in the league. So many Bills fans don't like Kyle Orton, and I dunno why. Marrone wanted him back, and when Orton said he was retiring even after being offered 5 mill per, his retiring is a big reason why St Doug quit. The Cowboys also gave Orton a call when Romo went down this year. I agree the overall talent on the offense this year is greatly upgraded this year over last year, and while not completely upgraded. The overall offense is in far better shape this year then last. All the Bills players played their hearts out for Dick Jauron, and I wouldn't want him back either Edited October 1, 2015 by Nihilarian
JohnC Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Yet that QB still went 7-5, and threw for 3018 yards, 18 TD's, in only 12 games. With a completion percentage of 64.2%, and I agree he did all that with the worst rated offensive line in the league. So many Bills fans don't like Kyle Orton, and I dunno why. Marrone wanted him back, and when Orton said he was retiring even after being offered 5 mill per, his retiring is a big reason why St Doug quit. The Cowboys also gave Orton a call when Romo went down this year. I agree the overall talent on the offense this year is greatly upgraded this year over last year, and while not completely upgraded. The overall offense is in far better shape this year then last. All the Bills players played their hearts out for Dick Jauron, and I wouldn't want him back either The Bills went 9-7 last year under Marrone. Their record reflected their talent level and a little beyond it. If TT was the starting qb last year and played at the same level as he is now playing the Bills in my estimation would have won possibly another two games and made the playoffs. DM beat Rex's team twice last year (43-27. 38-3) by a combined score of 81-30. Kyle Orton was a very limited qb who was nothing more than an adequate backup. The reason why DM would have kept him the next year if he would have stayed is because Marrone was done with EJ as a starter. If your best option is a mediocre qb then you go with the mediocre qb. The Bills front office expected DM back this year. He left on his own accord. He moved on and the organization moved on. Edited October 2, 2015 by JohnC
Nihilarian Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 History tells you not to count on it John. The Bills will draft a LT or two... just not with a first round pick.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Greg Roman is an excellent OC. However, I don't care how innovative he is or anyone else is with the caliber of OL and the caliber of qbing we had last year no OC would have been successful on. Is Greg Roman a better OC than Hackett? Absolutely. What would he have done differently on offense that could have overcome a limited veteran qb who had less mobility than Stephen Hawking without the wheel chair and an offensive line that couldn't hold back a defensive line full of Rosie O'Donnells? The talent on offensive is dramatically upgraded from last year. You don't think the addition of TT, Incognito, Clay, Miller, Harvin has made a difference compared to the slugs that staffed the offense last year? The bottom line is that the insufferable Doug Marrone had a team that always played hard. The 9-7 record that the team had not only reflected its talent level but slightly went beyond it. Being a diiiick doesn't mean that one is incompetent. Being a diiick is simply being a diiick. Of course we have better weapons this year but that doesn't mean Marrone was not totally clueless on offense last year. It was his and his idea alone to put EPears at RG which was a disaster. His and his idea alone to not utilize Watkins and Woods by getting them the ball at or around the LOS. His and his idea alone to employ the Lee Smith-Gun Offense, which was criminally stupid. He didn't know how to use Spiller. He decided to throw 40 times against the Texans. He benched Goodwin when Flash was healthy. He neutered Orton, which is why you saw Orton give up. There are endless foolish and stupid things he did on offense which hurt the team.
3rdand12 Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Of course we have better weapons this year but that doesn't mean Marrone was not totally clueless on offense last year. It was his and his idea alone to put EPears at RG which was a disaster. His and his idea alone to not utilize Watkins and Woods by getting them the ball at or around the LOS. His and his idea alone to employ the Lee Smith-Gun Offense, which was criminally stupid. He didn't know how to use Spiller. He decided to throw 40 times against the Texans. He benched Goodwin when Flash was healthy. He neutered Orton, which is why you saw Orton give up. There are endless foolish and stupid things he did on offense which hurt the team. If one listens to the players, o line wrs post Marrone. one might consider Doug and Company were over their head. If the talent level has improved then fine. but the play calling was atrocious. everyone saw it. and that is all i have to say about that.
JohnC Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Of course we have better weapons this year but that doesn't mean Marrone was not totally clueless on offense last year. It was his and his idea alone to put EPears at RG which was a disaster. His and his idea alone to not utilize Watkins and Woods by getting them the ball at or around the LOS. His and his idea alone to employ the Lee Smith-Gun Offense, which was criminally stupid. He didn't know how to use Spiller. He decided to throw 40 times against the Texans. He benched Goodwin when Flash was healthy. He neutered Orton, which is why you saw Orton give up. There are endless foolish and stupid things he did on offense which hurt the team. The team was 9-7. We had the worst guard play in the league for the simple reason that we had horrible guards. Richardson was not ready to play and he was a disaster when he played. Henderson was overwhelmed as a RT and he was better than Kujo who based on performance shouldn't have been on a NFL roster. Wood had a poor year at center some of which can be attributable to the poor play of the guards playing alongside of him. Glenn had an off year that he is carrying forward to this season. Orton was a mediocre backup qb who joined the team late and had to work himself into condition as the season advanced. No one is saying that Marrone is an innovative offensive coach. But the failure of the offense is attributable to its lack of talent, not the schemes. If you added TT, Harvin, Incognito and Miller to the 9-7 team that Marrone coached last year that team would have been in the playoffs, regardless how unimaginative a HC Marrone was. He neutered Orton, which is why you saw Orton give up. Kyle Orton had retirement on his mind before he finished the season. He cashed it in on his own voltion. His end of the season disinterest was very evident for all to see. His hitting the deck to avoid contact when he was a yard or so away from a first down was emblematic of how much he cared at that point.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 The team was 9-7. We had the worst guard play in the league for the simple reason that we had horrible guards. Richardson was not ready to play and he was a disaster when he played. Henderson was overwhelmed as a RT and he was better than Kujo who based on performance shouldn't have been on a NFL roster. Wood had a poor year at center some of which can be attributable to the poor play of the guards playing alongside of him. Glenn had an off year that he is carrying forward to this season. Orton was a mediocre backup qb who joined the team late and had to work himself into condition as the season advanced. No one is saying that Marrone is an innovative offensive coach. But the failure of the offense is attributable to its lack of talent, not the schemes. If you added TT, Harvin, Incognito and Miller to the 9-7 team that Marrone coached last year that team would have been in the playoffs, regardless how unimaginative a HC Marrone was. Kyle Orton had retirement on his mind before he finished the season. He cashed it in on his own voltion. His end of the season disinterest was very evident for all to see. His hitting the deck to avoid contact when he was a yard or so away from a first down was emblematic of how much he cared at that point. It's because Marrone wouldn't let him play the way he wanted. He was fine for the first several games when Marrone let Orton be Orton. As soon as he realized that our defense was great he neutered him. I argued it when it happened, it showed in Ortons drive and effort, we went to three TEs more and more, and our offense got word and worse. pears was a DISASTER. No one makes a tall, unathletic mediocre OT into a starting OG. No one. Urbik should have been playing all along. Every single player except for Hogan regressed. Watkins was amazing in college on bubble screens. ODB was given 21 and Watkins 4. The offense was terrible and it was all on Marrone. Orton gave up because Marrone gave up on him, for no real reason. Listen to the players this year talk about the difference. We won in spite of Marrone because of a fantastic defense that he gets credit for only for his hire. With any decent offensive coaching last year we would have been in the playoffs.
Nihilarian Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 The Bills went 9-7 last year under Marrone. Their record reflected their talent level and a little beyond it. If TT was the starting qb last year and played at the same level as he is now playing the Bills in my estimation would have won possibly another two games and made the playoffs. DM beat Rex's team twice last year (43-27. 38-3) by a combined score of 81-30. Kyle Orton was a very limited qb who was nothing more than an adequate backup. The reason why DM would have kept him the next year if he would have stayed is because Marrone was done with EJ as a starter. If your best option is a mediocre qb then you go with the mediocre qb. The Bills front office expected DM back this year. He left on his own accord. He moved on and the organization moved on. Man, I for sure wouldn't want to see Tyrod Taylor with no NFL starting experience playing behind last years offensive line, and with that utter moron Nate Hackett calling nothing but pass plays. :sick I look at last years Buffalo Bills team and have to think that if anything held them back it was the inferior coaching on offense, and the very, very bad offensive line. Considering how bad the coaching, O line was I'm literally amazed how well Kyle Orton played. Extrapolating what the man did in 12 games out to 16 games, and he throws for 4000+ yards despite the JV college play calling. That 4000 yards would put him in the select company of the top 11 NFL QB's. How poorly the rest of the offense played was on Marrone. (lousy run game) Wasn't he an ex NFL offensive line player, and coach? Yet he fielded the very worst offensive line the team has seen the last 10 years. Wasn't starting OG Cyril Richardson over Urbik the first six games Marrone's idea, and Richardson isn't even on the active roster now. Erik Pears at RG? In my opinion the man was a stooge in leaving his OC to his own devices. The other aspect besides the QB play was the play of that #4 ranked defense under Jim Schwartz, and his defense that only allowed one game more then 26 points all year. Whats more is I hate to think of what would have happened to EJ last year had Orton not been available. If you think Doug Marrone was a good head coach that's fine. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. If you think Kyle Orton was a bad QB, and worth nothing but a backup then i guess we disagree again.
Nihilarian Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 Kyle Orton had retirement on his mind before he finished the season. He cashed it in on his own voltion. His end of the season disinterest was very evident for all to see. His hitting the deck to avoid contact when he was a yard or so away from a first down was emblematic of how much he cared at that point. I have no idea why anyone would say that. With a playoff berth on the line I watched the guy take hit after hit by Kahlil Mack in that Raider game, and he just kept throwing... 49 times to be exact. The Buffalo Bills run game with Spiller went 13 rushes for 13 yards the entire game!! Meaning that Orton was forced to carry that entire game with literally no run game. Watch this Or this,
Augie Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 When is Whaley Bobblehead day? I want one, aviator shades and all.
The Dean Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I don't think he wants the GM job, but he may want to be THE guy at One Bills Drive. Right now Whaley is his equal. A new GM may not hold the same sway. Somebody leaked the "rogue" thing to Whaley. And they had some sort of motive. I hope so, let's see on Sunday. Agreed. But it wasn't Brandon. I can assure you that there is no power struggle at OBD. They are all very much on the same page. Also agreed. They are in lock-step, for the most part. Whoever accused Whaely of "going rogue" wasn't high in the management chain.
No Cease Fires Posted October 2, 2015 Posted October 2, 2015 I think Whaley has done a tremendous job and I hope he's the Bills GM for a long, long time.
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