dulles Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 they really could have built around the picks they got from the bills. Instead they got manziel and that ruined the team...too much press. Not saying they should have taken carr or bridgewater but they could have even stuck with hoyer until a real qb showed up. But nope. We could have also kept our first and taken beckham and drafted a nice player in the first this year...it's like hindsight There will soon be a drafting manual...Chapter #1 will cover: What would Jerry Jones do if his son didn't take away the keys to the Cadilac? Whatever you think he'd do...do the opposite! I was stunned when the Cowboys didn't draft Johnny Football. I was not stunned when the Browns did. There are certain events that seem to be a foregone conclusion to everyone except the people most closely involved. Who didn't question Reggie Bush's ability to be an every down back coming out of college? Who didn't question Manziel's ability to translate into an NFL QB? It just seems that some organizations have a special blindness that is only made worse by doubling down on failure. Admittedly, Reggie had a decent career, but I don't think he turned into the career bell-cow that most Saints fans dreamed of when he was picked. For some organizations, like the Saints, they can afford a luxury item. For some organizations, like the Bills when we picked Spiller, they can't! It seems like the poor franchises tend to make the mistake of thinking they need to take the risky pick or they will fall further behind. Dallas' draft discipline lately (since Jr. Jones grabbed the reins) has been much better, as evidenced by their dominant OL. I was shocked by the graphic last night which showed that the Packers only have three, yes three (3!) players on their roster which weren't "homegrown" and one of those was James Jones who had left and returned. That is stunning. That is the way to run an organization long term! Careful, patient talent development. When you break away from that, you are tempted to make risky draft decisions and reach for a dud like Manziel.
Talley56 Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 I may be in the minority on this but I still think Manziel has potential. I think he's shown flashes of it too. I think given time he can develop in to a franchise QB. But of course I could be way wrong on that and all in all for as frustrated as we've been with the Bills, Browns fans are far worse off than we are. They have only made the playoffs twice since 89 and they just seem to repeatedly have no hope to do anything each year. We only have one team in our division who owns us time and time again. They have three teams who have been practically perennial playoff teams for the past few years to contend with.
Saxum Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 And it's getting worse before it gets better... Looks like Pettine suffers from the same stubborn-ness as Dumb Dumb Dougie... http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/841327 Or it could be a reporter stirring pot with imaginary sources (how many reporters will admit when they cite false sources who often are no more than coworker down the hall) or it could be "insiders" trying to cause trouble as part of attempts at power within organization but thank you for playing the "Blame Marrone and everyone associated with him" game since it takes only 2 brain cells to play.
Malazan Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Bowe was a bad decision from the get-go, but they were desperate for a WR. I feel bad for Petine. They should just go with Manziel and see what they have in him. Why do you feel bad for him? He knew exactly what he was getting into there and the issues with the front office. He was the 5th or 6th choice after the rest turned them down. He was so desperate to be a head coach he made bad decision all on his own. Feel bad for their fans. They don't deserve it.
John from Riverside Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Why do you feel bad for him? He knew exactly what he was getting into there and the issues with the front office. He was the 5th or 6th choice after the rest turned them down. He was so desperate to be a head coach he made bad decision all on his own. Feel bad for their fans. They don't deserve it. Just remember.....our coaching make up does not look the same if Pettine ultimately stayed. Things happen for a a reason
Wing Man Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) This just in, Beverly Hills 90210, Cleveland Browns 3.Colin Mochrie Edited September 29, 2015 by Wing Man
machine gun kelly Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 I think it started before they got here. I couldn't agree more. Nobody wants to acknowledge this started with Buddy Nix, and then Whaley with a huge jump start with El Pegul. This franchise is on the rise. I'm not saying SB this year but we are on the way to relevance again for the long term. We are placing money into free agents that makes sense, drafting well for the most part, spending real money on coaches, and mgmt has some stability. Just think back to 2010 before Buddy. We had by far the least talented team in the NFL. We sucked. Bill Parcels couldn't have made us better. Now, outside of TT (wildcard as he looks promising) we have have one of the top 3 talented teams in the Nation. I'm so thankful for Nix, Whaley, Rex, Roman, and our talent. Leadership matters. When these pundits say it's not about the X and 0"s, but the Jims and Joes has never been a leader. I have been in leadership for 12 years in Medical Device, and who you pick, is as important as how you coach. Yes, it's scheme, but it's how you create a team. It's so easy to criticize, but hard to do.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 They should be starting Manziel. What do they have to lose?
aristocrat Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 There will soon be a drafting manual...Chapter #1 will cover: What would Jerry Jones do if his son didn't take away the keys to the Cadilac? Whatever you think he'd do...do the opposite! I was stunned when the Cowboys didn't draft Johnny Football. I was not stunned when the Browns did. There are certain events that seem to be a foregone conclusion to everyone except the people most closely involved. Who didn't question Reggie Bush's ability to be an every down back coming out of college? Who didn't question Manziel's ability to translate into an NFL QB? It just seems that some organizations have a special blindness that is only made worse by doubling down on failure. Admittedly, Reggie had a decent career, but I don't think he turned into the career bell-cow that most Saints fans dreamed of when he was picked. For some organizations, like the Saints, they can afford a luxury item. For some organizations, like the Bills when we picked Spiller, they can't! It seems like the poor franchises tend to make the mistake of thinking they need to take the risky pick or they will fall further behind. Dallas' draft discipline lately (since Jr. Jones grabbed the reins) has been much better, as evidenced by their dominant OL. I was shocked by the graphic last night which showed that the Packers only have three, yes three (3!) players on their roster which weren't "homegrown" and one of those was James Jones who had left and returned. That is stunning. That is the way to run an organization long term! Careful, patient talent development. When you break away from that, you are tempted to make risky draft decisions and reach for a dud like Manziel. jerry had johnnys draft card in his hand until his son said no and they grabbed the lineman. Maybe some team could have developed manziel but not the boys or the browns. It's so funny how we as fans just read some draft reports and watch college ball and can tell certain guys dont have it. The browns reached and for a guy who brought too many headaches to the team. They needed a nice quiet training camp and building the roster and they got the opposite.
ALF Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Manziel would do ok with a Chip offense and Mike Evans.
YoloinOhio Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Pettine is the best thing they have. Get rid of farmer.
Malazan Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Just remember.....our coaching make up does not look the same if Pettine ultimately stayed. Things happen for a a reason I don't understand your comment. I didn't *want* him to stay. If he did, okay. The defense was too leaky against the run. His decision was bad for himself, not the Bills.
metzelaars_lives Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 So the verdict is already in on Johnny Manziel after, what, 3 games- the last of which he played fairly well in? Just making sure this board remains consistent with its evaluation of young, inexperienced first round QB's.
Nihilarian Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) The Browns have a decent HC, and just need to give him time to settle things down a bit. They are still looking for their franchise QB, and I don't get why they won't just go with Johnny Football for now. If he stinks it up then draft a QB next year Their GM Farmer was fined for sending / texting offensive plays to their OC Kyle Shanahan during games which is illegal, and he is a real bonehead. This stupidity by their GM caused their OC to step down. Kyle is now the OC in Atlanta and he installed a kick ass offensive scheme that makes decent adjustments at half time. The Falcons are 3-0. The Browns are also in a very tough division AFC Central Steelers, Ravens, Colts have been in the playoffs almost every year as all three have their franchise QB. Edited September 30, 2015 by Nihilarian
GunnerBill Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 So the verdict is already in on Johnny Manziel after, what, 3 games- the last of which he played fairly well in? Just making sure this board remains consistent with its evaluation of young, inexperienced first round QB's. Whilst I have always been, and remain, a Manziel as a franchise QB sceptic I don't think it is fair to evaluate on 3 games and I actually feel bad for the kid that they are not going with him now to see what they have. I think trying to compare that with the EJ situation (I'm guessing that is who you are referring to) is not comparing apples with apples. Off the field behaviour does affect careers... and you can't do any evaluation, even a premature one, of Johnny Football without the off the field antics coming into play and that does matter.
Bill from NYC Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 There will soon be a drafting manual...Chapter #1 will cover: What would Jerry Jones do if his son didn't take away the keys to the Cadilac? Whatever you think he'd do...do the opposite! I was stunned when the Cowboys didn't draft Johnny Football. I was not stunned when the Browns did. There are certain events that seem to be a foregone conclusion to everyone except the people most closely involved. Who didn't question Reggie Bush's ability to be an every down back coming out of college? Who didn't question Manziel's ability to translate into an NFL QB? It just seems that some organizations have a special blindness that is only made worse by doubling down on failure. Admittedly, Reggie had a decent career, but I don't think he turned into the career bell-cow that most Saints fans dreamed of when he was picked. For some organizations, like the Saints, they can afford a luxury item. For some organizations, like the Bills when we picked Spiller, they can't! It seems like the poor franchises tend to make the mistake of thinking they need to take the risky pick or they will fall further behind. Dallas' draft discipline lately (since Jr. Jones grabbed the reins) has been much better, as evidenced by their dominant OL. I was shocked by the graphic last night which showed that the Packers only have three, yes three (3!) players on their roster which weren't "homegrown" and one of those was James Jones who had left and returned. That is stunning. That is the way to run an organization long term! Careful, patient talent development. When you break away from that, you are tempted to make risky draft decisions and reach for a dud like Manziel. Your post is a very good one but it is not all encompassing. I loved the reference to the Bills drafting Spiller and have been blasting this kind of stupidity since the day he was selected. That said, our problems ran WAY deeper. Please, go on drafthistory.com or any other draft site and check out how many 1st round picks have been devoted to defensive backs and/or running backs. If you ever want to know how to lose football games, you will see a precise diagram. The Bills are now a talented football team. We might even have a quarterback. IF Tyrod is the real deal, the Bills need to plan for the future in lieu of filling self created holes and chasing defensive backs. They need to strengthen both lines, and prepare for players such as Kyle and Mario to get old. And the way Glenn looks there might really be a problem at LT, which is not good. In all, I like what I am seeing. Obviously, nothing matters as much as having a qb. Let's hope that Tyrod can do the job because if he can, this team can go places now, and in the future.
metzelaars_lives Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Whilst I have always been, and remain, a Manziel as a franchise QB sceptic I don't think it is fair to evaluate on 3 games and I actually feel bad for the kid that they are not going with him now to see what they have. I think trying to compare that with the EJ situation (I'm guessing that is who you are referring to) is not comparing apples with apples. Off the field behaviour does affect careers... and you can't do any evaluation, even a premature one, of Johnny Football without the off the field antics coming into play and that does matter. Bruce Smith got suspended for using cocaine, used to dance around the field like a buffoon and once fell asleep drunk at the wheel in the middle of an intersection in Virginia Beach. Jim Kelly was every last bit the hothead Johnny Manziel is (was?) The consensus seems to be that Manziel has grown up quite a bit and put his past behind him. Are you worried about Karlos Williams' alleged assault against his pregnant girlfriend in college affecting his play on Sunday? Edited September 29, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
BillnutinHouston Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Your post is a very good one but it is not all encompassing.I loved the reference to the Bills drafting Spiller and have been blasting this kind of stupidity since the day he was selected. That said, our problems ran WAY deeper. Please, go on drafthistory.com or any other draft site and check out how many 1st round picks have been devoted to defensive backs and/or running backs. If you ever want to know how to lose football games, you will see a precise diagram.The Bills are now a talented football team. We might even have a quarterback. IF Tyrod is the real deal, the Bills need to plan for the future in lieu of filling self created holes and chasing defensive backs. They need to strengthen both lines, and prepare for players such as Kyle and Mario to get old. And the way Glenn looks there might really be a problem at LT, which is not good.In all, I like what I am seeing. Obviously, nothing matters as much as having a qb. Let's hope that Tyrod can do the job because if he can, this team can go places now, and in the future.How do you feel about the Darby pick? Is that OK since he was a 2nd rounder? Edited September 29, 2015 by BillnutinHouston
GunnerBill Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Bruce Smith got suspended for using cocaine, used to dance around the field like a buffoon and once fell asleep drunk at the wheel in the middle of an intersection in Virginia Beach. Jim Kelly was every last bit the hothead Johnny Manziel is (was?) The consensus seems to be that Manziel has grown up quite a bit and put his past behind him. Are you worried about Karlos Williams' alleged assault against his pregnant girlfriend in college affecting his play on Sunday? No. That doesn't impact football. Throwing a party and inviting teammates the night before a game does. And comparing it to the early 90s Bills is irrelevant. The professionalism has moved on. The noises do suggest he has improved in that regard and I hope he has because I don't have anything against him personally, I just think if you are considering the possibility of him being a franchise guy the fact he has shown such a lack of judgment in circumstances that directly affect football has to play into that. I still don't think it is fair to close the book on him after 3 games. I think the Browns should let him play this year because they are not going to be good regardless... but I am pretty sure they will be looking to draft a QB again in 2016.
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