FireChan Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Without comparing him to backs, or giving any per touch info- how's one supposed to know if he's excellent or not was my entire point. It comes across as using a slanted stay to achieve a goal, and not as presenting an accurate picture that others can judge on their own. NFL.com doesn't do those categories by position, IIRC. 2011-2013: CJ - 516 att, 2738 yds, 5.3 ypa LM - 787 att, 3756 yds, 4.8 ypa This is with CJ splitting time with FJ. Admittedly, 2014, CJ did a whole lot of nothing due to injury (and even worse scheme/blocking), but again.. it's hard to argue that CJ isn't a pretty good running back. So to me, something is going on either with him, or the team, for him to not be used at all in NO. Its not like CJ is old, either. It's also with McCoy missing time due to injury.
The Big Cat Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Without comparing him to backs, or giving any per touch info- how's one supposed to know if he's excellent or not was my entire point. It comes across as using a slanted stay to achieve a goal, and not as presenting an accurate picture that others can judge on their own. Fine. Ask and ye shall receive. 5th in receiving yards among RB's T-3 in receiving TD's with five other players. Nobody's saying these numbers aren't. They are, however, arguing vehemently that they're not great.
Dorkington Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 NFL.com doesn't do those categories by position, IIRC. It's also with McCoy missing time due to injury. It's also with CJ missing time/being hobbled multiple games. **** happens with RBs.
Maury Ballstein Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) So he was running too hard in the first half and was too winded to play in the 2nd half?Bills D would give up a million points and gailey would abandon the run game. Had him in fantasy It was maddening. Was always on pace for 30 point games. Edited September 29, 2015 by Ryan L Billz
FireChan Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 It's also with CJ missing time/being hobbled multiple games. **** happens with RBs. What time did CJ miss in 2011 - 2013? 1 game? Vs. McCoy who missed 5 in that time? What's next, comparing Trent's 2008 campaign to Brady's?
Dorkington Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 What time did CJ miss in 2011 - 2013? 1 game? Vs. McCoy who missed 5 in that time? What's next, comparing Trent's 2008 campaign to Brady's? You're quickly jumping the shark. Again, I've said that McCoy is the better player. But at the same time CJ has been very productive when on the field, other than the last year, so to me either something is up with him, or the team. You don't average 5+ypa over the course of three seasons without talent imo.
Peter Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) What time did CJ miss in 2011 - 2013? 1 game? Vs. McCoy who missed 5 in that time? What's next, comparing Trent's 2008 campaign to Brady's? I had promised myself that I was going to stay away from this thread after posting earlier, but your post pulled me back in -- momentarily. Your mention of 2013 -- without mentioning the fact that the guy actually tried to tough it out playing with a high ankle sprain when he should not have been trying to play at all -- amply demonstrates your bias against CJ. Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?!? Edited September 29, 2015 by Peter
NoSaint Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Fine. Ask and ye shall receive. 5th in receiving yards among RB's T-3 in receiving TD's with five other players. Nobody's saying these numbers aren't. They are, however, arguing vehemently that they're not great. much thanks. I think those give a much more accurate picture. For a back that was 22nd in carries and 10th in receptions among backs (98th overall), to be in that top 5 cumulative really underscores how productive he was. his cumulative stats consistently outrank his touches in all the categories you highlighted - literally every metric of yardage and scoring had him doing more with less touches. ill be the first to say he has not consistently made the most of his opportunities, for a variety of reasons including his own faults surely -- but he has elite talent when things come together. even without them consistently coming together hes been a good player, albeit not living up to his potential. Edited September 29, 2015 by NoSaint
FireChan Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 I had promised myself that I was going to stay away from this thread after posting earlier, but your post pulled me back in -- momentarily. Your mention of 2013 -- without mentioning the fact that the guy actually tried to tough it out playing with a high ankle sprain when he should not have been trying to play at all -- amply demonstrates your bias against CJ. Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?!? Because it was already mentioned, chico. Pull out, pull out! You're quickly jumping the shark. Again, I've said that McCoy is the better player. But at the same time CJ has been very productive when on the field, other than the last year, so to me either something is up with him, or the team. You don't average 5+ypa over the course of three seasons without talent imo. CJ seems to struggle to get on the field quite a bit. Couldn't beat out the old man. Can't get on the field in NO. To me, if I take a step back and look at CJ's whole career, him averaging 5+ YPA over three seasons doesn't impress me when it's one great year, and two not so great ones (and then a terrible one). It's like Stafford, yeah he had that one great year where you could say he averaged 28 TD's over 4 years, but he had 29 20 and 22 in the other three. It begins to look like an outlier, or a "everything went his way" year. Which, again, isn't nothing, Most players don't even have that year to fall back on. But when do you step back and say it was an outlier?
Peter Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Because it was already mentioned, chico. Pull out, pull out! Just not in your criticism of 2013 and your BS comment about him only missing one game - when he actually was trying to tough it out playing with a high ankle sprain. As for pulling out . . . Chico . . . I will keep my response to myself given that this is a family friendly board.
Bill from NYC Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Just not in your criticism of 2013 and your BS comment about him only missing one game - when he actually was trying to tough it out playing with a high ankle sprain. As for pulling out . . . Chico . . . I will keep my response to myself given that this is a family friendly board. Stick around so we can talk about the games he took over and won for us. I'll start: Your turn! Edited September 29, 2015 by Bill from NYC
FireChan Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Just not in your criticism of 2013 and your BS comment about him only missing one game - when he actually was trying to tough it out playing with a high ankle sprain. As for pulling out . . . Chico . . . I will keep my response to myself given that this is a family friendly board. It was in the post I quoted. Do I have to repeat every comment I quote?
Dorkington Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 Because it was already mentioned, chico. Pull out, pull out! CJ seems to struggle to get on the field quite a bit. Couldn't beat out the old man. Can't get on the field in NO. To me, if I take a step back and look at CJ's whole career, him averaging 5+ YPA over three seasons doesn't impress me when it's one great year, and two not so great ones (and then a terrible one). It's like Stafford, yeah he had that one great year where you could say he averaged 28 TD's over 4 years, but he had 29 20 and 22 in the other three. It begins to look like an outlier, or a "everything went his way" year. Which, again, isn't nothing, Most players don't even have that year to fall back on. But when do you step back and say it was an outlier? 2011, 7th in YPA; 2012, T1st in YPA; 2013, 10th in YPA... so even the two 'bad' years in that set of three, put him in good company. CJ's a talented player when healthy and in the right situation. I don't see why this is controversial to state. And I don't see why it's a problem to expect him to have similar success in NO, and to be confused as to why it's not happening. I'll make this my last post on the subject.
Peter Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 It was in the post I quoted. Do I have to repeat every comment I quote? Posted Today, 01:21 PM Dorkington, on 29 Sept 2015 - 1:19 PM, said: It's also with CJ missing time/being hobbled multiple games. **** happens with RBs. What time did CJ miss in 2011 - 2013? 1 game? Vs. McCoy who missed 5 in that time? What's next, comparing Trent's 2008 campaign to Brady's?
FireChan Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 2011, 7th in YPA; 2012, T1st in YPA; 2013, 10th in YPA... so even the two 'bad' years in that set of three, put him in good company. CJ's a talented player when healthy and in the right situation. I don't see why this is controversial to state. And I don't see why it's a problem to expect him to have similar success in NO, and to be confused as to why it's not happening. I'll make this my last post on the subject. It's not a problem, I just have a conflicting opinion. No worries. He isn't a Bill anymore, so it's of no consequence.
bobobonators Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 CJ Spiller is a good football player with games where he can be excellent. Unfortunately he has durability issues. In the end, he wasnt worth the draft slot we used on him. That being said, he's still certainly capable of having an excellent season so he'll continue to be coveted by some NFL teams. Seems like a great guy. I always liked him.
Malazan Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 2011-2013: CJ - 516 att, 2738 yds, 5.3 ypa LM - 787 att, 3756 yds, 4.8 ypa This is with CJ splitting time with FJ. Admittedly, 2014, CJ did a whole lot of nothing due to injury (and even worse scheme/blocking), but again.. it's hard to argue that CJ isn't a pretty good running back. So to me, something is going on either with him, or the team, for him to not be used at all in NO. Its not like CJ is old, either. I think CJ is a great change of pace back, but he is a change of pace back. He's never been the primary runner for a full season. There's nothing wrong with that, but I'd have to disagree that he could be the primary back and have success beyond a few games at most.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 When was Spiller truly a "factor?" Yeah, one freak season I guess.
What a Tuel Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Sorry, but this is a false equivalent of the most outrageous kind. McCoy has struggled through three games. It's not even remotely hypocritical to have patience with him and not with Spiller. Why? Well, geeze, let's see, since 2010: McCoy has played in 77 games, has 6,301 rushing yards, 40 rushing TD's, 2,057 rec yards and 11 rec TD's. Spiller has played in 72 games, has 3,332 rushing yards, 12 rushing TD's, 1, 236 rec yards and 6 rec TD's. Yeah, I'd say McCoy has earned the longer leash. Why? Well, because I've been saying over and over and over and over again in this thread, unlike Spiller, he's actually DONE something in the league. You forgot a stat. Spiller - 672 carries, 205 pass targets McCoy - 1,349 carries, 338 pass targets McCoy is clearly the better RB, but the picture you painted is incomplete, and seems manipulated to show comparable attempts/targets. An argument could be made that CJ didn't deserve more carries/attempts but it still should be disclosed. That said, what is with the told ya so? the guy just had knee surgery, just came back, and had 4 total carries, and 3 targets over 2 games. They are obviously bringing him back slow. Edited September 29, 2015 by What a Tuel
The Big Cat Posted September 29, 2015 Posted September 29, 2015 You forgot a stat. Spiller - 672 carries, 205 pass targets McCoy - 1,349 carries, 338 pass targets McCoy is clearly the better RB, but the picture you painted is incomplete, and seems manipulated to show comparable attempts/targets. An argument could be made that CJ didn't deserve more carries/attempts but it still should be disclosed. That said, what is with the told ya so? the guy just had knee surgery, just came back, and had 4 total carries, and 3 targets over 2 games. They are obviously bringing him back slow. I'm not sure how NOT being a prolific player in the league is cause for celebration, but fine. And, okay. We'll just keep waiting.
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