Kiko vs. Shady

[Doc]

No one wants Chip Kelly to succeed, except Eagles fans. If he does, he'll make everyone else look foolish.

 

I think everyone knows we got the better player but the worse contract out of the trade. Correct or not, the strength of the trade will be viewed within the confines of the contract they gave him afterwards. It's not this season or next that will make up peoples minds, but what happens after that.

 

Nope. By getting rid of Shady, Kelly created a hole. He filled that hole with an equally expensive player who at present isn't playing well. Not to mention the dead cap money the Eagles had to eat on Shady's old deal. The Bills OTOH had an excellent defense last year without Kiko, so they didn't have to replace him.

[BillsFan130]

i agree. he reminded me of another overrated linebacker among Bills fans...London Fletcher. He was Fletcher with better hands. Solid, but not worth all the hype. People think these guys are future hall of famers because we haven't had a true stud at MLB since Sam Cowart.

 

Nonetheless, I feel bad for the guy if that knee is wrecked again. He's so young and he was impressive in week 1.

Ya he made some really nice plays week 1. But ya I agree with with what you said. Bradham looks like he's the real deal at linebacker at least!

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

Nope. By getting rid of Shady, Kelly created a hole. He filled that hole with an equally expensive player who at present isn't playing well. Not to mention the dead cap money the Eagles had to eat on Shady's old deal. The Bills OTOH had an excellent defense last year without Kiko, so they didn't have to replace him.

Pretty good nutshell. Shady is a lot closer to sproules who has actually been at least somewhat productive, than Murray who's averaging a half a yard per carry.

 

The verdict won't be in until at least a year or two down the road. But thus far it seems advantage- Doug

[YoloinOhio]

This sideline vine from the Eagles game Sunday is priceless

 

http://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CPwxRfwVEAAGjBF.mp4

[BuffaloHokie13]

This sideline vine from the Eagles game Sunday is priceless

 

http://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CPwxRfwVEAAGjBF.mp4

"Sam, you didn't suck this much at Oklahoma..."

[Nanker]

Kind of like Rex's tenure in NY.

[John from Riverside]

Anyone still want to give up a 1st for Bradford?

[Alphadawg7]

Well here it is 2 week s of the season gone by & it look as if with Shady being dinged with the hamstring thing that the Eagles made out better with Kiko being back to full health & contributing to their D .

 

But now it looks as though the Bills may be getting the better end of the deal especially if Shady can continue to get better as the season goes on & doesn't have any set backs .

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000536460/article/eagles-lb-kiko-alonso-suffers-partially-torn-acl

 

It's to bad because i really like what Kiko brings to a club when on the field. I did happen to read a article some where that the person that wrote said article thought Kiko was to small to take the beating that you get in the NFL .

 

I hope it's not another season ender for him & that he can recover before the end of the season ...

 

But for now the Bills are the bigger benefactor of the trade GO BILLS !!!

 

Way to go Whaley !!

 

 

 

I am little confused on how you started out your post where you stated after the first 2 weeks it had looked as if the Eagles got the better deal. I don't see where Philly had been winning this side of the trade at any point. Kiko had one INT and was playing in some nickel packages mostly. McCoy has been pretty darn good for us despite being slowed by a hamstring injury. Has he lit up fantasy football...NO...but he's been making some great plays, shifty as ever, explosive catching passes, etc. He had also had a TD called back already too. And lets not forget, Karlos busting some long TD runs near the redzone has also limited Shady scoring.

 

At no point has there ever been a thought in my head that we didn't make out great or get the better end of that deal, and I am a huge fan of Kiko going back to college. I was even getting blasted around here when I kept telling everyone what a good pick he was when no one had ever heard of him on this board really. So, nothing against Kiko, but Shady has contributed more already and with not being at full strength.

 

I feel really bad for Kiko, knee injuries are hard enough to come back from once...but this is now 3 serious ones in like 4 years. And for a LB who's skill is based a lot on instinct and mobility, not power, this is even more disappointing. I hope he can come back from this and get past these knee problems.

[YoloinOhio]

Anyone still want to give up a 1st for Bradford?

Cc: Browns

[H2o]

Anyone still want to give up a 1st for Bradford?

The Eagles gave up Foles AND a 2nd for Bradford. Win for Jeff Fisher on the draft pick alone

[KD in CA]

 

I am little confused on how you started out your post where you stated after the first 2 weeks it had looked as if the Eagles got the better deal. I don't see where Philly had been winning this side of the trade at any point.

 

Same here. I thought the Bills ripped off Philly the day of the trade and I still do. And I fully expect to think the same in 3 years. It's easy to say feature backs are a dime a dozen until you don't have one.

[dpberr]

Kiko, with his injuries, will not have a long career. You can only repair knees so many times before they become painfully arthritic to the point the shots won't touch it anymore.

 

I'm sure those knees have been injured more than what was reported at Oregon, Buffalo and Philadelphia.

 

I see the trade as an even swap - you get the last good years of McCoy and the bright few years of Alonso.

[Koufax]

We bought low on Shady no matter what, and this wasn't supposed to be an even talent trade.

 

In a few years we will suffer some overpaid aging RB grief, but in the short run we took advantage of Chip wanting to make a move for Murray, not any pretense that Kiko's on field value was really Shady's on field value.

 

But obviously the injury has us feeling lucky and never really knowing how it would stack up talent wise (just like if Shady had a season ender and Kiko played healthy). But even absent the injury angle, the first few years of this deal were definitely in our favor, and the "do we release an old McCoy" and "Kiko is a free agent" years coming up are somewhat irrelevant compared to 2015-2017 years where the substance of this deal matter.

 

When Shady is at full strength and sharing workload with the two bruisers, I think we will be all smiles regardless of Kiko's health.

[BADOLBILZ]

Said this many times already but Alonso wasn't traded for McCoy, he was traded for McCoy's negotiating rights.

 

Then they handsomely rewarded the Shadester with a fat new contract.

 

I did like the way he played last week......he was fired up for sure........but the reality is that LeSean McCoy was going to be cut outright just like DeSean Jackson and Evan Mathis.

 

Nobody else was lining up to issue a new contract to a high mileage, difficult personality RB.

 

The Bills didn't need to trade them Kiko Alonso. A little negotiating and they could have gotten the right to overpay him for a 6th or 7th round pick.

 

I know everyone is all over the Alonso injury and Shady running for almost 90 yards in one game......but Alonso was the Bills best cover LB.....and the Bills just gave up 466 yards passing....most ever in their history....including a fair amount of abuse with LB matchups.

 

I'd much rather have Alonso on the team and Tony Steward not.

[Doc]

Said this many times already but Alonso wasn't traded for McCoy, he was traded for McCoy's negotiating rights.

 

Then they handsomely rewarded the Shadester with a fat new contract.

 

I did like the way he played last week......he was fired up for sure........but the reality is that LeSean McCoy was going to be cut outright just like DeSean Jackson and Evan Mathis.

 

Nobody else was lining up to issue a new contract to a high mileage, difficult personality RB.

 

The Bills didn't need to trade them Kiko Alonso. A little negotiating and they could have gotten the right to overpay him for a 6th or 7th round pick.

 

I know everyone is all over the Alonso injury and Shady running for almost 90 yards in one game......but Alonso was the Bills best cover LB.....and the Bills just gave up 466 yards passing....most ever in their history....including a fair amount of abuse with LB matchups.

 

I'd much rather have Alonso on the team and Tony Steward not.

 

The Eagles were looking for a player, not a late round draft pick. Someone would have ponied it up (like, say, the Dols trading Dion Jordan. how crappy would that have been?). And if he was released outright, he likely wouldn't have signed with the Bills (same goes for Murray). So to ensure getting him, they traded an injury-prone LB they didn't need for an All-Pro RB. And now the Eagles are in turmoil because their replacement looks bad and Kiko is injured again.

[QB Bills]

Said this many times already but Alonso wasn't traded for McCoy, he was traded for McCoy's negotiating rights.

 

Then they handsomely rewarded the Shadester with a fat new contract.

 

I did like the way he played last week......he was fired up for sure........but the reality is that LeSean McCoy was going to be cut outright just like DeSean Jackson and Evan Mathis.

 

Nobody else was lining up to issue a new contract to a high mileage, difficult personality RB.

 

The Bills didn't need to trade them Kiko Alonso. A little negotiating and they could have gotten the right to overpay him for a 6th or 7th round pick.

 

I know everyone is all over the Alonso injury and Shady running for almost 90 yards in one game......but Alonso was the Bills best cover LB.....and the Bills just gave up 466 yards passing....most ever in their history....including a fair amount of abuse with LB matchups.

 

I'd much rather have Alonso on the team and Tony Steward not.

Thank you!! Why does everyone gloss over this?

 

It was reported that they would have taken a draft pick for him. They just wanted to get rid of him. The Bills paid more than they had to.

Edited September 26, 2015 by QB Bills

[YoloinOhio]

Thank you!! Why does everyone gloss over this?

 

It was reported that they would have taken a draft pick for him. They just wanted to get rid of him. The Bills paid more than they had to.

if they would have traded him for a pick, what round? The Bills didn't have a 1st, they couldn't give up a 2nd or 3rd in this draft since they were so light to begin with, and they didn't have a 4th. I don't think the Eagles would take a 5th round pick for an all pro 26 yr old RB.

 

But since none of us were directly involved, We are all just speculating other than what the GMs specifically said. They did ask for picks and Whaley asked him to look at the roster instead. The reason for that is with new coaching staff and 2 new systems, the draft picks are valuable assets they need to tailor personnel to the new schemes. Teams would often rather trade a player than a draft pick. Unloading a player they didn't think fit or they felt they didn't need with the scheme changes was the better move to acquire a player who does fit. Chip initially requested Woods, the Bills didn't want to give him up, then they asked for Kiko, and the price was right.

Edited September 26, 2015 by YoloinOhio

[Dragonborn10]

Now trades are reviewed and judged after 2 games, or one-eighth of the NFL season? These things take at least one if not two seasons.

Hughes trade took one practice to figure who was the winner

[BADOLBILZ]

 

The Eagles were looking for a player, not a late round draft pick. Someone would have ponied it up (like, say, the Dols trading Dion Jordan. how crappy would that have been?). And if he was released outright, he likely wouldn't have signed with the Bills (same goes for Murray). So to ensure getting him, they traded an injury-prone LB they didn't need for an All-Pro RB. And now the Eagles are in turmoil because their replacement looks bad and Kiko is injured again.

 

First of all......they did NEED Alonso last Sunday.

 

Bradham, Brown do not cover the pass well at all and the Pats designed a gameplan with that fact in mind.

 

Second.....McCoy was NOT an All Pro. In fact, he ran for a very pedestrian 4.2 ypa in 2014.

 

As for the injury prone label.....a guy who plays every defensive snap one season and then tears an ACL in the offseason is generally not considered "injury prone".

 

He tore an ACL.

 

Time will tell if it keeps happening again but we aren't talking about someone who is always getting hurt 8 different ways like Marquise Goodwin or is always getting concussions like Kevin Kolb, etc..

 

I didn't mind them adding McCoy on his pre-existing contract but like I said, he was going to be cut so they could have acquired him for a lot less than Alonso....who is an exceptional talent on a cheap contract.

 

And let's not forget that Nigel Bradham is a pending free agent and the teams salary cap situation is starting to get tight.

 

I get the "good players won't sign with Buffalo" losers mentality.....15 years of losing will do that to fans.....but they overpaid for those negotiating rights.

[Green Lightning]

 

First of all......they did NEED Alonso last Sunday.

 

Bradham, Brown do not cover the pass well at all and the Pats designed a gameplan with that fact in mind.

 

Second.....McCoy was NOT an All Pro. In fact, he ran for a very pedestrian 4.2 ypa in 2014.

 

As for the injury prone label.....a guy who plays every defensive snap one season and then tears an ACL in the offseason is generally not considered "injury prone".

 

He tore an ACL.

 

Time will tell if it keeps happening again but we aren't talking about someone who is always getting hurt 8 different ways like Marquise Goodwin or is always getting concussions like Kevin Kolb, etc..

 

I didn't mind them adding McCoy on his pre-existing contract but like I said, he was going to be cut so they could have acquired him for a lot less than Alonso....who is an exceptional talent on a cheap contract.

 

And let's not forget that Nigel Bradham is a pending free agent and the teams salary cap situation is starting to get tight.

 

I get the "good players won't sign with Buffalo" losers mentality.....15 years of losing will do that to fans.....but they overpaid for those negotiating rights.

Kiko has played in only half the games he should have. He's looking lije damaged goods at this point - and too small to play ILB.