dave mcbride Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) It is good - but a lot of that was via YAC. I know, but a lot of that stuff averages out. He also threw a deep pass to Harvin that probably would have been caught if not for the interference. He doesn't get any credit for that one. It is good - but a lot of that was via YAC. actually, is this right? I can't really remember any big YAC plays in either of the first two games. None of the bigger receptions by Watkins, Woods, Harvin, or Clay are YAC plays. Anyway, his qb rating right now is 103.9. Edited September 21, 2015 by dave mcbride
Coach Tuesday Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 I know, but a lot of that stuff averages out. He also threw a deep pass to Harvin that probably would have been caught if not for the interference. He doesn't get any credit for that one. actually, is this right? I can't really remember any big YAC plays in either of the first two games. None of the bigger receptions by Watkins, Woods, Harvin, or Clay are YAC plays. Anyway, his qb rating right now is 103.9. There is a site (I don't recall which one) that tracks the average yard distance of QBs' passes - I'll look for it. It seemed to me that the vast majority of TT's throws were of the 8 yard variety.
Wayne Cubed Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 It is good - but a lot of that was via YAC. Was it? 24 yards in the air to Watkins TD. 9 yards to Clay TD. 32 yards in the air to Woods for TD. 11 Yards to Harvin. Watkins for 8.
thebandit27 Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 There is a site (I don't recall which one) that tracks the average yard distance of QBs' passes - I'll look for it. It seemed to me that the vast majority of TT's throws were of the 8 yard variety. Just search "QB air yards"
dave mcbride Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 There is a site (I don't recall which one) that tracks the average yard distance of QBs' passes - I'll look for it. It seemed to me that the vast majority of TT's throws were of the 8 yard variety. That may be true, but his stats haven't been padded by plays like screens or dump offs that turn into a 77-yard TDs. All of his TD throws have basically been to the end zone.
BuffalOhio Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Both lines did not show up for that game, and I never saw anybody jam Gronk or Edelman at the line to throw them off. As much as I hate him, Brady is the best ever. That game was surgical. Yes - different point. I'm saying the YPA numbers are a bit misleading. He needs to push the ball downfield more. With our offensive line sucking like they do, he has no chance. Need more designed rollouts.
Prickly Pete Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Bill NYC, Excellent post. I'll keep it short. Brady, Gronk and BB. Three future HOF inductees who will earn their status with their play on the field, not with their mouths. Brady is 23-3 against us. Over the last 30 games the Pats have won 27. Talent usually prevails over a lack of talent almost all the time, especially when led with the best HC in the game. The lack of discipline by the Bills was apparent. Aaron Williams lost his composure to the extent that he had to be restrained by a number of players and staff before he regained control of his emotions. The referees called a bad game and lacked judgment. There was a number of phantum calls (ex. offensive pass interference on Watkins and a TE who was on the line called for being off the line). The erratic calls and over-officiating chopped up the game so much that it was difficult to watch. Rex Ryan is a brash trash talking braggart flamboyant HC who has a colorful act on the sidelines while BB is a tight-lipped non-talking HC who is in control on the sidelines. Which HC do you think is more likely to set the example for mature behavior and instill discipline in the highly charged atmosphere of a game? Rex plays to the camera while BB plays to the game. As you noted Glenn has been a disaster. I don't know if he is out of shape but in the first two games he was very slow and sluggish. Henderson is also struggling. Our OL play has been horrible. The positives I took out of this game is that I am very encouraged with the play of Tyrod. He played well considering that he was constantly under seige. Could you have imagined if the immobile Cassel was the starting qb in this game? I was also encouraged by the play of McCoy. He seemed to play with a lot of energy and quickness despite the fact there wasn't much space for him to maneuver. I also liked the fact that Watkins was involved with the offense. Bill, you may be irritated by the feisty play of Edelmann but I am not. He is a gamer and a producer. From your comments, I saw this game pretty much like you did. You mention "Talent over lack of talent", and the thing that I find disheartening is that I would bet that Belichick would swap defensive personnel straight up.
sullim4 Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 I'll add one other insight - our defenders were going for the strip rather than the tackle on almost every occasion. While I like the aggressiveness, please don't do this unless you have a clear shot at the ball. There were too many occasions where there was no clear play at the ball and yet you saw them trying to pop the ball loose and miss the tackle. 24 hours later and I'm still pissed at the defensive game plan. Rex, please, put your players in a position to succeed. Don't force them into a system where they are destined to underperform.
Prickly Pete Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Too much is being made of the interceptions. The one's at the end of each half were pretty much desperate situations. The clock management at the end of the first half, put Tyrod in a bad spot, and at the end of the game, while I wasn't thrilled with his decision, he was facing 7 DB's with no time outs, he had to force throws. I'm more concerned with some of the things that happened in the first 28 minutes of each half.
Coach Tuesday Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Too much is being made of the interceptions. The one's at the end of each half were pretty much desperate situations. The clock management at the end of the first half, put Tyrod in a bad spot, and at the end of the game, while I wasn't thrilled with his decision, he was facing 7 DB's with no time outs, he had to force throws. I'm more concerned with some of the things that happened in the first 28 minutes of each half. Too little is being made of the fumbles and dropped snaps... TT is dangerous in the pocket right now.
Luxy312 Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Too much is being made of the interceptions. The one's at the end of each half were pretty much desperate situations. The clock management at the end of the first half, put Tyrod in a bad spot, and at the end of the game, while I wasn't thrilled with his decision, he was facing 7 DB's with no time outs, he had to force throws. I'm more concerned with some of the things that happened in the first 28 minutes of each half. I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. The Patriots first interception put them on the Bills 30 yardline, where they calmly took 5 plays to score a touchdown. That, all by itself has the potential to be a 10 or 14 point swing. I've said it a million times that the turnover battle is the single most statistically significant factor in predicting the outcome of a game. -1 in turnovers and a team wins only about 10% of the time. -2 and it's less than 4%. All by himself, Tyrod put them at -1 yesterday.
RevWarRifleman Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Actually the D from the first Pats game last season(under Schwartz) was pretty similar to yesterday's performance. Brady 27-37-361-4-0, 2 sacks for 15 3rd down percentage was actually a lot better with the Rex D against Pats. (Note: I am in no way defending the bad play of Rex's D this week....merely pointing out that the Schwartz D was comparable.) Ok Dibs, if you've researched it, and it looks like you did, I can accept that. To add a little something to this topic, after I posted this, I read Bacari Rambo's take on Brady's quick delivery on the Bills website. He was there on the field, I was watching on TV. Obviously his perception was way more accurate than mine. Nevertheless, Go Bills against the Fish!
Prickly Pete Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. The Patriots first interception put them on the Bills 30 yardline, where they calmly took 5 plays to score a touchdown. That, all by itself has the potential to be a 10 or 14 point swing. I've said it a million times that the turnover battle is the single most statistically significant factor in predicting the outcome of a game. -1 in turnovers and a team wins only about 10% of the time. -2 and it's less than 4%. All by himself, Tyrod put them at -1 yesterday. And slow pace at which he makes a decision. He is one read and either check down or take off at this point. The Patriots caught on which lead to a lot of the sacks yesterday. I'm not calling for Cassel or Manuel, but it's concerning going forward, but then again I expected our defense to be able to dominant the opposing teams offenses and we could live with that type of play from Tyrod for a while as he progresses, but after yesterday's performance in not sure how dominant our defense will be. The speed of decisions is my main concern. I think he will improve that though.
JohnC Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) From your comments, I saw this game pretty much like you did. You mention "Talent over lack of talent", and the thing that I find disheartening is that I would bet that Belichick would swap defensive personnel straight up. Our collective talent level on defense (in my opinion and yours) is better. However, there is no better defensive mind in the game than BB. I was listening to a radio sports show and the analyst brought up the issue that there is no better HC/DC who game plans better for individual games. Our OL is porous and ineffectual in both run blocking and pass blocking. For the most part he took advantage of our weakness with minimal defensive stunts. There were few stunts coming from the players behind the DL. There was an efficiency with less defensive player movement to their defense in their game plan than with our more varied defensive schemes. It's not unreasonable to say that our defensive backfield is staffed with more talented defenders. They had a major turnover in their backfield this offseason. They certainly don't have a CB as good as Gilmore. You can't be a dope and play for the Pats. Their players, mostly falling within the category of solid, play their roles and stay within their roles. They are foundamentally sound. Their coaching staff would not tolerate out of control behavior on the field as exhibited by Aaron Williams who went ballistic over a call. The Pats certainly have a talented team. But the hallmark for that team is intelligence. While our HC was huffing and puffing and putting on a demonstration that lacked maturity their HC was humorlessly preparing to beat the next team in line. Edited September 21, 2015 by JohnC
RevWarRifleman Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 There is no way to pin this loss on Gilmore. The defensive plan was an abject failure. I'm surprised that they didn't have Mario run out and cover Edelman. And I have no idea what the story is with Glenn. Absolutely. Gilmore is a VERY good corner man who I think, is coming into his own. When I got to your part about maybe putting Mario on Edelman, I instantly thought, "why not just jam their TE's & receivers inside the 5 yds of the LOS?" This takes them out of the timing of their routes, we got the guys up front to stuff their runs, as well as get to Brady as the quick timing of their pass game is off. Brady I've noticed over the last decade gets flustered when he feels the pocket closing in on him & his throws are off many (not all) the time. I don't know, maybe I'm being naïve here. But I think we have the defensive talent to do a lot of different things.
Prickly Pete Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Our collective talent level on defense (in my opinion and yours) is better. However, there is no better defensive mind in the game than BB. I was listening to a radio sports show and the analyst brought up the issue that there is no better HC/DC who game plans better for individual games. Our OL is porous and ineffectual in both run blocking and pass blocking. For the most part he took advantage of our weakness with minimal defensive stunts. There were few stunts coming from the players behind the DL. There was an efficiency with less defensive player movement to their defense in their game plan than with our more varied defensive schemes. It's not unreasonable to say that our defensive backfield is staffed with more talented defenders. They had a major turnover in their backfield this offseason. They certainly don't have a CB as good as Gilmore. You can't be a dope and play for the Pats. Their players, mostly falling within the category of solid, play their roles and stay within their roles. They are foundamentally sound. Their coaching staff would not tolerate out of control behavior on the field as exhibited by Aaron Williams who went ballistic over a call. The Pats certainly have a talented team. But the hallmark for that team is intelligence. While our HC was huffing and puffing and putting on a demonstration that lacked maturity their HC was humorlessly preparing to beat the next team in line. The thing about Ryan's boasting is that I don't think it had any effect on the way the Patriots played, I don't think it made them want to win any more than they would normally. It didn't compel them to be more focused. The team it effects is his own. The Head Coach performing for the media/fans during the week, sends a message to the team that showing bravado has some kind of relevance...it doesn't. Keep your head in the game, not on impressing the media/fans. Edited September 21, 2015 by HoF Watkins
KD in CA Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Absolutely. Gilmore is a VERY good corner man who I think, is coming into his own. When I got to your part about maybe putting Mario on Edelman, I instantly thought, "why not just jam their TE's & receivers inside the 5 yds of the LOS?" This takes them out of the timing of their routes, we got the guys up front to stuff their runs, as well as get to Brady as the quick timing of their pass game is off. Brady I've noticed over the last decade gets flustered when he feels the pocket closing in on him & his throws are off many (not all) the time. I don't know, maybe I'm being naïve here. But I think we have the defensive talent to do a lot of different things. There's no question Brady get rattled when he gets hit. The only teams he struggles against are the teams who hit him. And the only teams I've seen do that are the Giants in two Super Bowls, the Ravens several times and the Jets a few times 5 years ago. So unless the Bills plan on getting a HOF QB who can put up more points than Brady (like Manning has done this a few times), they better figure out before the rematch how to hit him, early and often.
PatsFanNH Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 I know, but a lot of that stuff averages out. He also threw a deep pass to Harvin that probably would have been caught if not for the interference. He doesn't get any credit for that one. What play are you talking about, I saw Harvin aligator arm an easy catch when he heard footsteps. I dont remember an PI though
dave mcbride Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 There's no question Brady get rattled when he gets hit. The only teams he struggles against are the teams who hit him. And the only teams I've seen do that are the Giants in two Super Bowls, the Ravens several times and the Jets a few times 5 years ago. So unless the Bills plan on getting a HOF QB who can put up more points than Brady (like Manning has done this a few times), they better figure out before the rematch how to hit him, early,often, AND LATE. Fixed it for you! What play are you talking about, I saw Harvin aligator arm an easy catch when he heard footsteps. I dont remember an PI though Right before the second Bills' TD in the second quarter - there was a PI call at the NE 6 yard line (single coverage on Harvin, who ran a deep route on the left side). Taylor hit Clay for a short td pass 1-2 plays later.
RevWarRifleman Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 There's no question Brady get rattled when he gets hit. The only teams he struggles against are the teams who hit him. And the only teams I've seen do that are the Giants in two Super Bowls, the Ravens several times and the Jets a few times 5 years ago. So unless the Bills plan on getting a HOF QB who can put up more points than Brady (like Manning has done this a few times), they better figure out before the rematch how to hit him, early and often. Agree with you on both paragraphs. With the second paragraph, yup, that's what the Pats do. They know Brady is the best in the business, so they game-plan their offense around him & his ability to hit the home run pass from anywhere on the field, thus, forcing opponent's offense to play catch-up w/ them. A very difficult job. do.
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