Kirby Jackson Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Yet the coaches have the same perception, and couple that with brain dead play on the field, you see why it's not a coincidence that he's still unemployed while Freddie got a phone call within one hour from the two SuperBowl teams. I'm agreeing with you. The perception though is different from the reality. He fumbles a lot but there are others that fumble just as often that don't have that same reputation. Perception means nothing when there are facts that will either prove or disprove that perception to be accurate or not. I understand your point with regard to actual fumbles (and actually Fred is a little worse per touch if you count in his ST fumbles). I watched whatever I could of his play, though, and I think I see what was ticking off the coaches. His ball security is really very poor. He doesn't switch arms with the ball when a defender is approaching. When he's getting tackled, he doesn't bring his 2nd arm up to cradle and protect the ball. Keep that up and play enough that other teams get tape on it, and it's only a matter of time until the fumbles skyrocket. I expect what finally sent him to the Turk here is having been presumably given coaching on this point, then called out by Rex publically, and not addressing it. I'm not saying that he should be on the roster (even though I would have kept him once Fred was cut). The point that I was making is that everyone says, "so glad that we got rid of Brown because he fumbles so much." It is a tough stigma to shake because that is perception. If you look at the facts though it is nowhere near the problem that most think that it is.
RyanC883 Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Any chance B. Brown still has a copy of the playbook. If so, then yeah I'm worried, because now the Pats********** have a copy of it. Cheating fu*cks.
YoloinOhio Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Any chance B. Brown still has a copy of the playbook. If so, then yeah I'm worried, because now the Pats********** have a copy of it. Cheating fu*cks. playbooks are on the iPad now and they have to turn in their iPads when cut.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 playbooks are on the iPad now and they have to turn in their iPads when cut. Belicheat had his buddies from the Navy and NSA install a backdoor into every NFL team's iPads.
3rdand12 Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Does anyone who thinks cutting Bryce Brown was a bad move ever watch him play? yes
ExWNYer Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Don't we already have this thread? I'm not worried about Bryce Brown, though I am sure the Patriots asked him about the Bills playbook. Too bad the Pats* didn't sign Billy Joe Hobert and ask him about the Bills' playbook...
3rdand12 Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 How did this fumble thing get so out of control? He fumbles about once out of every 57 touches. That certainly isn't great but by comparison Freddy fumbled about once out of every 59 and we never talked about his fumble issues. too soon. maybe after ten years you can insinuate a negative about Fred or maybe never
FireChan Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 I'm agreeing with you. The perception though is different from the reality. He fumbles a lot but there are others that fumble just as often that don't have that same reputation. Perception means nothing when there are facts that will either prove or disprove that perception to be accurate or not. I'm not saying that he should be on the roster (even though I would have kept him once Fred was cut). The point that I was making is that everyone says, "so glad that we got rid of Brown because he fumbles so much." It is a tough stigma to shake because that is perception. If you look at the facts though it is nowhere near the problem that most think that it is. Not all fumbles are created equal.
3rdand12 Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) Not all fumbles are created equal. Truth. The Anthony Lynn link seals it though. goodness know when Bryce ran he would hang that ball out there. I recall the game with his breakaway , screaming, tuck it away!! you idiot!! Edited September 19, 2015 by 3rdand12
Kirby Jackson Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Not all fumbles are created equal.That is definitely true Chan and he had had some costly ones.
ToGoGo Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 That would be on us, then, since when a player is cut the equipment manager is supposed to collect his playbook and ipad and such. But, they could certainly pay him to pick his brain for what he remembers, along the lines cited in the ESPN Article: As much as the Patriots tried to keep the circle of those who knew about the taping small, sometimes the team would add recently cut players from upcoming opponents and pay them only to help decipher signals, former Patriots staffers say. In 2005, for instance, they signed a defensive player from a team they were going to play in the upcoming season. Before that game, the player was led to a room where Adams was waiting. They closed the door, and Adams played a compilation tape that matched the signals to the plays from the player's former team, and asked how many were accurate. "He had about 50 percent of them right," the player says now. Obviously, it's no longer a question of defensive signals, but I can imagine Belichek trying to get more intel on what plays might be run from different defensive pre-snap looks and similar on offense. I could be wrong, but if they were seriously interested in him as a player, I don't understand why they wouldn't bring him in right away. This is exactly what they're doing with Bryce Brown and it is something Bills fans should be concerned about. Belichick's motto has always been get as much information about the other team as possible and limit as much information about his team as possible. Greg Roman's offense is all about run plays and complex blocking schemes. Belichick is ALL OVER Brown right now asking him a million questions. Which is why it's weird Whaley cut Brown right before the Pats game even though McCoy is banged up. Let's hope the Bills fed Brown wrong information about their Pats strategy on purpose right before we cut him in anticipation of the Pats bringing him in. Now THAT would be genius. Otherwise this could be a really dumb move by our front office.
billsfan89 Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Unless they sign him, I doubt he'll give them anything. Yeah, it wouldn't make sense all these players are going for unpaid workouts giving te Pats* everything they want about their former teams without getting signed first. Why not give them some incentive to sign you. I do think Brown will catch on as the season progresses, RB's will get hurt and he is one of the better younger ones on the waiver wire.
Nihilarian Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Unless they sign him, I doubt he'll give them anything. This He would have to be pretty stupid to give away the Bills playbook without being signed. I dunno, perhaps they have someone try to buddy up to him for info. Still if he has any smarts he will keep quiet about his former team until a contract is offered. The Patriots must be trying to pick his brain because they already have 5 RB's on their roster, and just got Blount back from an injury. Brown might be a decent 3rd string behind Blount, Lewis tho
ToGoGo Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 This He would have to be pretty stupid to give away the Bills playbook without being signed. I dunno, perhaps they have someone try to buddy up to him for info. Still if he has any smarts he will keep quiet about his former team until a contract is offered. The Patriots must be trying to pick his brain because they already have 5 RB's on their roster, and just got Blount back from an injury. Brown might be a decent 3rd string behind Blount, Lewis tho Why would he be stupid? There's 32 employers in the NFL, are you really going to say no if they probe you during an interview? And who's to say what other incentives they offer. Perhaps money under the table, maybe a promise of a good word to other teams in the league, etc. It was shown in the OTL article that the Pats do things like this, especially to teams like the Bills and Dolphins. Why are we trying to convince ourselves that Bryce Brown isn't telling the Pats everything he knows about the Bills run game?
FireChan Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) That is definitely true Chan and he had had some costly ones. It's not only about the cost. I remember Fred had that one fumble where Spikes went helmet to helmet on him and he lost consciousness and dropped the football. Now, if I'm a coach, do I consider that to be indicative of bad ball security? Not really. Whereas waving the ball outside of your body so it can get tomahawked from behind may be a different story. Different circumstances. Both count as fumbles. Edited September 19, 2015 by FireChan
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 I'm agreeing with you. The perception though is different from the reality. He fumbles a lot but there are others that fumble just as often that don't have that same reputation. Perception means nothing when there are facts that will either prove or disprove that perception to be accurate or not. I'm not saying that he should be on the roster (even though I would have kept him once Fred was cut). The point that I was making is that everyone says, "so glad that we got rid of Brown because he fumbles so much." It is a tough stigma to shake because that is perception. If you look at the facts though it is nowhere near the problem that most think that it is. I get it, Kirby, I do - I made the same argument in different threads just after the FredEx cut. I always have hated that phrase "perception is reality". No, perception is perception and it doesn't match reality. But I don't think the coaches are perception driven, and I don't think that particular mis-perception is the reason why he was cut. He was signed as essentially a 4th round draft pick - someone with talent who is raw (he really has very little football experience post high-school) but could be developed. I think some sort of step or development that they wanted to see wasn't there. Why would he be stupid? There's 32 employers in the NFL, are you really going to say no if they probe you during an interview? And who's to say what other incentives they offer. Perhaps money under the table, maybe a promise of a good word to other teams in the league, etc. It was shown in the OTL article that the Pats do things like this, especially to teams like the Bills and Dolphins. Why are we trying to convince ourselves that Bryce Brown isn't telling the Pats everything he knows about the Bills run game? If I were being probed to the extent of divulging competitive info about my former employer during a job interview, that would ring alarm bells for me, and I certainly wouldn't go for "talk to us and we'll put in a word for you". What would that word be? "Sign this guy and if he doesn't work out for you he'll sing like a canary to whatever teams give him a look?" On the other hand, you're right, he isn't necessarily stupid if he talks to them - it doesn't even have to be "under the table" as far as I know. I don't know of anything preventing a "fee for service" based offer - we pay you a couple of game checks to sit down and answer whatever questions we ask for 2 days, you get some money to keep chicken in the pot until injuries hit and someone in the NFL wants you to play for them
CountryCletus Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Why would he be stupid? There's 32 employers in the NFL, are you really going to say no if they probe you during an interview? And who's to say what other incentives they offer. Perhaps money under the table, maybe a promise of a good word to other teams in the league, etc. It was shown in the OTL article that the Pats do things like this, especially to teams like the Bills and Dolphins. Why are we trying to convince ourselves that Bryce Brown isn't telling the Pats everything he knows about the Bills run game? This was part of Whaley's plan all along... Bryce is a secret agent!!! I wasn't supposed to tell anyone, but he is currently filling the Pats* with false playbooks and information... You'll see on Sunday with hour foolish they look against us!
ToGoGo Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 If I were being probed to the extent of divulging competitive info about my former employer during a job interview, that would ring alarm bells for me, and I certainly wouldn't go for "talk to us and we'll put in a word for you". What would that word be? "Sign this guy and if he doesn't work out for you he'll sing like a canary to whatever teams give him a look?" On the other hand, you're right, he isn't necessarily stupid if he talks to them - it doesn't even have to be "under the table" as far as I know. I don't know of anything preventing a "fee for service" based offer - we pay you a couple of game checks to sit down and answer whatever questions we ask for 2 days, you get some money to keep chicken in the pot until injuries hit and someone in the NFL wants you to play for them It would ring alarms bell for you in a corporate environment, but the NFL has a different culture. Bryce Brown is not guaranteed a spot on a team at this point in his career. It's either sign somewhere for $400k-$750k a year or go back to the real world and find a $40k a year job. There is no choice. It's the same dilemma faced by college athletes. Play for free in the NCAA or sit out a year and hope to God an NBA team drafts you. It's an "offer you can't refuse".
Not at the table Karlos Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 The fumble issue is overblown. He fumbled a lot as a rookie. And sadly everyone knows the KC fumble. But he is a strong runner. Who knows how much useful info he can give the Pats**?this
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