Will the refs let us win this game?

[DC Greg]

1. You didnt see it, watch it again.. again my dad who is half blind saw the block in the back.

 

2. The challenge flag was thrown on time, but the play is not reviewable

 

3. That was a bad call, it happens

 

4. your right pulling the guys shirt is no way holding. (really?)

 

5. there was 3 or 4 holding calls on the Pats O line... go back and look but not many.

 

6. It was running into the kicker, you dont get a different call just because you need a break.

 

7. There were a lot of unsportman like calls and I cant honestly break them all down for you. but the Bills were out of control early in this game.

 

8.sigh, that is PI all the time, you may hate how the rule is called but it is ALWAYS PI.

 

and amazingly you missed the obvious PI on the Bills against gronk when he was getting his armed pulled down before the ball was there, or that weak PI call on Fletcher (a god awful CB) hmm is it possible the refs just sucked both ways!?!

You cant hit the receivers hands even patty cake like before the ball gets there its PI.

 

Dude, it's always a game of interpretation. You can hide behind the "well that's the rule" but everyone who really watches the game knows there are calls that are made and calls that are ignored in situational football. That one could have gone either way IMO. There is not a rule that says "absolutely no contact can be made with a WR after 5 yards". It's football. There is also some contact. It's always up to the refs to interpret the impact of that contact and whether it warrants a flag, and they call it different a lot. Your "patty cake is PI" definitive statement is not as hard and fast as you'd like it to be.

[PatsFanNH]

 

Dude, it's always a game of interpretation. You can hide behind the "well that's the rule" but everyone who really watches the game knows there are calls that are made and calls that are ignored in situational football. That one could have gone either way IMO. There is not a rule that says "absolutely no contact can be made with a WR after 5 yards". It's football. There is also some contact. It's always up to the refs to interpret the impact of that contact and whether it warrants a flag, and they call it different a lot. Your "patty cake is PI" definitive statement is not as hard and fast as you'd like it to be.

As I said in the shoutbox, the inconsistancies of calls is the most annoying from crew to crew and for some crews quarter to quarter. If there was a consitency we all can say "this is always called" or "they never call this" and thats the biggest issue. IMO smacking a guys hands after 5 yards is at least illegal contact lol but again lack of consitency.

 

as for my statement, I should have said more often than not its PI.

Edited September 21, 2015 by PatsFanNH

[sjjr]

1. You didnt see it, watch it again.. again my dad who is half blind saw the block in the back.

 

2. The challenge flag was thrown on time, but the play is not reviewable

 

3. That was a bad call, it happens

 

4. your right pulling the guys shirt is no way holding. (really?)

 

5. there was 3 or 4 holding calls on the Pats O line... go back and look but not many.

 

6. It was running into the kicker, you dont get a different call just because you need a break.

 

7. There were a lot of unsportman like calls and I cant honestly break them all down for you. but the Bills were out of control early in this game.

 

8.sigh, that is PI all the time, you may hate how the rule is called but it is ALWAYS PI.

 

and amazingly you missed the obvious PI on the Bills against gronk when he was getting his armed pulled down before the ball was there, or that weak PI call on Fletcher (a god awful CB) hmm is it possible the refs just sucked both ways!?!

You cant hit the receivers hands even patty cake like before the ball gets there its PI.

Oh boy....you are questioning the PI call on Fletcher. Really?? On the Hughes play, I guess if Bradham's was PI then Hughes was too. No contact that harms the play and slaps the ball out of his hands at the end. Both were faceguarding.

 

I'll review the game later today and try to catch the block in the back. Get back to you on that. From memory, Thigpen had gotten the ball to around mid-field for the offense with a 7-0 lead and a charged up crowd. The pats looked clearly rattled.

 

Last time I checked, the spot of the ball can be challenged. That whole challenge flag situation was probably more Rex's fault than anyone but it quieted the crowd the way it played out.

 

Please break down the unsportsmanlike penalties. I'd like to get a NE fan explanation of how this all was fair. Aaron Williams and all of the Bills clearly lost their cool after a few of those "bad" calls that happen from time to time. It changed the game and the score was 21-7 after it all played out.

[John from Riverside]

I just ask for consistant reffing and that was probably the closest we have gotten against the pats in a long long time.....no complaints from me.

 

Refs are not the reason why we lost this game......it was our complete lack of stopping Brady from throwing in less then 2 seconds......

 

It really is that simple

[DC Greg]

I just ask for consistant reffing and that was probably the closest we have gotten against the pats in a long long time.....no complaints from me.

 

Refs are not the reason why we lost this game......it was our complete lack of stopping Brady from throwing in less then 2 seconds......

 

It really is that simple

 

There were plenty of times when he did 5 or 7 step drops and held the ball for a long time, as well. It wasn't all quick hitters. And we did not blitz, and our front 4 got zero pressure on those, which is actually more discouraging.

 

I don't think the refs lost us the game. There were some bush league calls though. It just blows my mind sometimes. College football refs are better most of the time IMO.

[dave mcbride]

 

I'd have to see those plays again. If you're talking about the Hughes one I think you are, I disagree. The one seam route where Hughes was matched up 1:1 with him with no help? Jerry started doing some patty cake with Gronk's hands slightly before the ball got there, but he mainly made a great play on the ball and swatted the ball out after Gronk had a fair chance to catch it. That is an amazing play by a defensive lineman in 1:1 coverage with possibly the best player in the NFL. As a Bills fan, I freaking LOVE that effort by Hughes on that. If I'm a ref, I give the benefit there to the d-lineman.

 

Unless you're referring to a different play, I think that was a hell of a job by Hughes. Way to many PI calls anymore on light hand to hand contact without grabbing anything. Was glad they kept themselves out of the game on that play.

 

A better question on this play though is WHY THE HELL is Jerry Hughes in 1:1 coverage with Gronk to begin with?? We rushed 4 all day, so why are there not defensive backs doubling the best player if we're not even blitzing? Made no sense, and it wasn't just this play. Gronk was in 1:1 mismatches all day long.

You should watch that play again. Hughes grabbed his arm and held it.

[Estelle Getty]

Here's a very interesting link for tracking penalties it may address conspiracy theories...

 

http://www.nflpenalties.com/

So the *pats have been helped the most by penalties this year. Thats very suprising.

 

The real study needs to be at what point in the game these penalties are being called. The refs make it a habit to bail out the *pats with devastating penalties to keep their drives alive.

 

When they call a penalty against the *pats it is almost always a meaningless first down penalty or on a play that would have resulted in a loss for the *pats anyway. And this is was not just noticed yesterday but has been going on since kraft bought the team.

[DC Greg]

You should watch that play again. Hughes grabbed his arm and held it.

 

Looked like a good effort to me. And I don't think I'm going to be worried about minor contact from a defensive LINEMAN covering the best tight end, possibly best player period, in all of football there. It wasn't blatant enough for the refs to call apparently.

 

The real question should be why was Jerry Hughes manned up on Gronk with no safety help over the top. That's just insane.

So the *pats have been helped the most by penalties this year. Thats very suprising.

 

The real study needs to be at what point in the game these penalties are being called. The refs make it a habit to bail out the *pats with devastating penalties to keep their drives alive.

 

When they call a penalty against the *pats it is almost always a meaningless first down penalty or on a play that would have resulted in a loss for the *pats anyway. And this is was not just noticed yesterday but has been going on since kraft bought the team.

 

Case in point, Dareus's sack on a critical third and long. They threw a flag for illegal contact on a receiver Brady never even had a chance to see. Automatic first down, courtesy of the refs inserting themselves into the game rather than letting them play.

[CountDorkula]

 

Looked like a good effort to me. And I don't think I'm going to be worried about minor contact from a defensive LINEMAN covering the best tight end, possibly best player period, in all of football there. It wasn't blatant enough for the refs to call apparently.

 

The real question should be why was Jerry Hughes manned up on Gronk with no safety help over the top. That's just insane.

 

Case in point, Dareus's sack on a critical third and long. They threw a flag for illegal contact on a receiver Brady never even had a chance to see. Automatic first down, courtesy of the refs inserting themselves into the game rather than letting them play.

 

SO you should be able to tackle a WR when you have a blitz. If it were the other way and this happened to sammy watkins there was no flag, people would be bitching about that too.

[DC Greg]

 

SO you should be able to tackle a WR when you have a blitz. If it were the other way and this happened to sammy watkins there was no flag, people would be bitching about that too.

 

The WR was not tackled. That is a complete exaggeration. Yes, people will always B word about calls. Sometimes they are right and the refs make bad calls/should keep the flags in their pocket. It happens.

[KOKBILLS]

 

Dude, it's always a game of interpretation. You can hide behind the "well that's the rule" but everyone who really watches the game knows there are calls that are made and calls that are ignored in situational football. That one could have gone either way IMO. There is not a rule that says "absolutely no contact can be made with a WR after 5 yards". It's football. There is also some contact. It's always up to the refs to interpret the impact of that contact and whether it warrants a flag, and they call it different a lot. Your "patty cake is PI" definitive statement is not as hard and fast as you'd like it to be.

 

Exactly...And I think that's the real problem...The lack of consistency on calls is mind-boggling from crew-to-crew...

 

Like how the refs interpreted the mugging on Robert Woods at the end of the Texans game last year to somehow be incidental contact even though all the contact...and there was plenty of contact...happened after 5 yards...

 

Who the heck know what they're thinking...And by no means am I using it as an excuse...But I'm pretty sure if push comes to shove the Patsies will get the benefit of the doubt more than the Bills...They're established...And that's just the way it's going to be...

[Freddie's Dead]

 

 

8.sigh, that is PI all the time, you may hate how the rule is called but it is ALWAYS PI.

 

and amazingly you missed the obvious PI on the Bills against gronk when he was getting his armed pulled down before the ball was there, or that weak PI call on Fletcher (a god awful CB) hmm is it possible the refs just sucked both ways!?!

You cant hit the receivers hands even patty cake like before the ball gets there its PI.

It wasn't PI the previous week when a Colts LB did the same thing on a pass to LeShady. The proper PI call on Bradham should have been the one on Gronk, will agree with you there. But that 4th QTR PI call was just wrong.

[KOKBILLS]

The real question should be why was Jerry Hughes manned up on Gronk with no safety help over the top. That's just insane.

 

Well...The Defensive scheme was just awful all day...Terrible...

[Gordio]

 

SO you should be able to tackle a WR when you have a blitz. If it were the other way and this happened to sammy watkins there was no flag, people would be bitching about that too.

 

 

Honestly why don't you do yourself a favor & go over to the pats board. I am not saying the outcome would of been different but the refs screwed us again. There are penalty calls & there are penalty calls at critical moments of the game & the Pats always seem to get these critical moment calls. The refs do their best throwing the flag on NE in plays that have little bearing to the outcome of the game to make it seem like it is evened out.

[CodeMonkey]

 

 

Honestly why don't you do yourself a favor & go over to the pats board. I am not saying the outcome would of been different but the refs screwed us again. There are penalty calls & there are penalty calls at critical moments of the game & the Pats always seem to get these critical moment calls. The refs do their best throwing the flag on NE in plays that have little bearing to the outcome of the game to make it seem like it is evened out.

Just business as usual I guess. The refs deliberately screwed the Bills. With that happening every week and every season, it's amazing that the Bills manage to win any games at all!

[Gordio]

Just business as usual I guess. The refs deliberately screwed the Bills. With that happening every week and every season, it's amazing that the Bills manage to win any games at all!

 

 

Yeah well you should join him over at the cheatriots board. I knew you couldn't help yourself to chime in on this topic. You claim to be a bills fan but never have nothing positive to say about the franchise, the stadium, the behavior of Bills fans etc...

[DC Greg]

 

Well...The Defensive scheme was just awful all day...Terrible...

 

Yeah, that's about where I'm at with it. I have no idea what was going on out there. To not be blitzing, and to still have their best (only?) two receivers in single coverage, and not just single coverage but total mismatches many times, most of the day was mind boggling. I hope Thurman and Rex are spending an awful lot of time this week looking at that film and figuring it out.

[CodeMonkey]

 

 

Yeah well you should join him over at the cheatriots board. I knew you couldn't help yourself to chime in on this topic. You claim to be a bills fan but never have nothing positive to say about the franchise, the stadium, the behavior of Bills fans etc...

I see, so unless you whine about the refs after every game you are not a Bills fan. Noted.

And, just for you ... the Bills first drive yesterday was a thing of beauty. And kudos to the Bills (and the fans in attendance) for not folding in the 4th quarter and trying to shove BellyCheats late game mistakes up his ass.

 

Hmmmm the stadium is harder. Oh, it is in a good location with easy access to 90, and is a simple functional stadium and not a god-awful billion dollar monstrosity like the home of the cowgirls.

Edited September 21, 2015 by CodeMonkey

[Freddie's Dead]

OK, I watched the tape and here is my attempt (at an unbiased) analysis of the calls good and bad.

 

1st QTR

 

8:26, Punt to Bills, block in back on Randell. GOOD CALL.

7:12, Seantrel removed from game, WGR550 radio reports he vomited on field, likely concussion protocol removal

6:55, TT ruled OB for a sack. BAD CALL (STUPID challenge by Ryan, but he did throw flag before snap, barely)

5:50, False start Cheats, GOOD CALL.
3:56, KO to Bills, holding on Easley. QUESTIONABLE CALL. Easley looked like he was slipping and fell to the ground, Cheat tripped over him, maybe he grabbed jersey on the way down.

1:46, Bills DOG, GOOD CALL, the ref actually started the play clock two seconds later, so we got 42 secs to get the ST out there.

1:29, Bills punt, Graham arguably blocked in the back on Cheats return, no call. QUESTIONABLE NON-CALL.

1:29, Two PF's on Bills, Graham and the Duke A#1. No replay, no idea. Amendola taunting Boobie a bit, not called.

0:58, AW UC Taunting. GOOD CALL. You can see AW woofing before the play, then he elbows Chandler upside the head and keeps on woofing. Well-deserved UC call there.

 

Through the first quarter, refs doing not too bad, save the bad OB call on TT. I see no holding or illegal formations by NE, and no pick plays either. They are just beatin' that a$$ straight up.

 

2ND QTR

 

11:08 Cheats run into kicker. GOOD CALL. Dude did not run Schmidt and he's also holding Schmidt's arm to keep him up.

10:56 Hughes clear PI on Gronk not called, he swipes Gronk's arm twice before ball gets there. BAD NON-CALL.

10:27 Graham return, AW cleans #$%elman's clock 3-4 secs. after Graham runs out of bounds, PF. GOOD CALL. AW proceeds to lose his damn mind.

9:13 Hands to the Face on Miller. GOOD CALL, turned the Cheats NT into a Pez dispenser.

Note: Cheats decline penalty, Ryan does the pu$$y punt on 4th down. Needed to nut it up there Rex and run twice on 3rd and 4th.

9:03 Cheats RG gives Kyle a facial. BAD NON-CALL. Hands to the face or facemask there.

6:38 Mulligan Illegal Formation. I hate to say this, but GOOD CALL. His helmet is clearly behind all other linemen, and he is even with Percy Harvin, which puts 5 receivers in the backfield. That's IF all day long. I was wrong about this call in other threads.

5:21 PI on Cheats DB. GOOD CALL. He arm barred Percy for 15 yards, or it would have been a TD there.

5:13 UC on Cheats #21. No replay, no idea.

5:13 Illegal Shift on Cheats after KO. BAD CALL. Ref muttered something about Gronk in stance while Edelman in motion, but Gronk was down and not moving for at least two seconds while JE in motion, so maybe the call was right by the rules, but they were over-officious jerks there.

4:46 After sack, Darby holding. Hard to see, but probably a good call. Darby extended his arm, fell backwards and took the receiver with him.

4:16 Cheats holding on a running play, GOOD CALL.

Note: TV graphic, Cheats 5/74, Bills 8/74 in penalties.

2:23 Solder with the takedown on Jerry, but AW and Nickell sandwich a defenseless Gronk. TWO BAD NON-CALLS. Should have been offsetting, but it forced the field goal, so we got the better of it.

0:05 Cheats 12 men in huddle. GOOD CALL, you can see the 12th guy running off when they break the huddle.

 

Through two quarters, I've only seen one clear hold by the Cheats O-line missed, but it came on a play where we could have gotten a penalty for the sandwich hit on a defenseless Gronk (yes, I put those two words together).

 

3RD QTR

 

14:51 Cheats holding on a running play. GOOD CALL. Center tackled the Meatball.

Note: TV graphic, Cheats 7/89, Bills 8/74 in penalties.

14:20 Screen to Adelman, Amendola clearly blocking AW downfield. Ball caught in backfield,I believe this is a good non-call.

13:55 False start Cheats. GOOD CALL. Center clearly clutched backwards.

12:10 Cheats center clearly holds Preston Brown, but away from point of attack. Probably a good non-call, didn't affect the play.

11:16 Cheats lineman late into stance, false start. GOOD CALL.

9:56 Bills receive KO, no flags. I was dumbfounded.

9:49 OPI on Sammy. HORRIBLE CALL. Sammy touched him, but the guy was sliding on his a$$ already.

9:42 UC on Rex. Frankly sports fans, he used a certain word that's a no-no with umpires. The Hoodie even worked the refs better than Rex. GOOD CALL, STFU Rex.

8:32 Holding on Cordy, running play. GOOD CALL. You can see him grab the Cheat by the shoulder pads and spin him to the ground.

Note: TV graphic - 3rd holding by Glenn this season. For those of you at home, he's on pace for 24.

6:32 Holding on Darby. GOOD CALL. He had great position, did not have to grab #$%^elman.

Note TV graphic, Bills Penalties Week 1, 11/113, Today 12/108.

6:04 Solder clear hold on Jerry, BAD NON-CALL

1:30 Bills punt, Cheats holding on return, GOOD CALL.

0:41 CLEAR holding on Jerry, BRUTALLY BAD NON-CALL

0:35 Jerry held again and driven to the ground. BAD NON-CALL.

 

Bills D started to turn it around here. Jerry Hughes stepped it up, but the refs punked him badly. He should have gotten at least one of those three holding calls. But I gotta give it up to the Cheats O-line. They are basically stoning the .25B club.

 

4TH QTR

 

11:42 TV Graphic, Cheats 10/109, Bills 12/108.

11:39 Dareus held maybe, hard to see. Bills D-line definitely getting more pressure.

11:06 Solder again hooking Jerry and spinning him. QUESTIONABLE NON-CALL.

10:03 Cheats OPI Pick play. GOOD CALL (finally).

8:16 Cheats 4th and inches, play clock runs out, Marcia calls TO 2 secs later and they give him the TO. BAD NON-CALL.

8:09 Cheats 95 gives Clay a facial, BAD NON-CALL. LeShady had a 15 yd gain anyway, but on the next play:

7:42 Seantrel hands to the face, GOOD CALL.

6:30 Refs pick up the flag for late hit on TT slide. HORRIBLE NON-CALL. If he was committed to the tackle, why is he laying on the ground with TT instead of tackling him? He went down there to hit him on the slide.

6:08 Cheats illegal contact on Clay, declined. GOOD CALL, you can see him engage Clay after 5 yards.

5:27 The Gay onsides kick. 'nuff said. GOOD CALLS, all 3.

3:23 Bradham PI. TERRIBLE CALL. XTC never touched him and the ball hit him in the back. If this was PI, why wasn't the Colts LB called for it last week when he did the same thing to LeShady?

2:28 Cheat's Dobson gets right up jawin' in Jerry's grill after a catch. QUESTIONABLE NON-CALL. Why no taunting?

 

One thing is clear to me. Once the game got out of hand, the refs lost focus, as the number of questionable and bad calls mounted in the 4th QTR. This crew was ridiculously flag happy, but they could have thrown more. Bottom line, the Cheats O-line was awesome, and stuffed the chit out of the $.25B D-line.

[MattM]

Thanks for the legwork, FD--that's a pretty impressive write up. Was it our collective imagination, or did CBS really not show many (if any) penalty replays?