GG Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 ..and that every team is getting up to something. No. Only one team as an organization lives on the edge of the rules. Others are random examples of players trying to get away with a foul here and there. No other organization goes to the lengths the Pats do to make sure everything is on the edge.
Prickly Pete Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 No. Only one team as an organization lives on the edge of the rules. Others are random examples of players trying to get away with a foul here and there. No other organization goes to the lengths the Pats do to make sure everything is on the edge. That might be true. Certainly the Seahawks with their physical DB's are testing the limits with "they can't call Pass Interference every play". Same thing (maybe worse).
Protocal69 Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 "Defensive techniques used to combat the rubs and picks vary from team to team, and down to down. Some teams get even closer and more physical with the receiver so he can’t freely pick off a teammate. On some downs you’ll see defenders switch the players they’re covering." From what I see from film study of Rex Ryan defensive he does both of what is stated above to slow down the pick routes. Also I do not know why with the receivers that we have why we dont run these plays more often. My feeling are if you cant beat them join em in regards to this.
hondo in seattle Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Pick plays are frustrating because too often you see guys get away with illegal picks. Not surprising when it's a fast-paced judgment call where intent factors in. To simplify the game, maybe picks/rubs should just be legal.
Prickly Pete Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Pick plays are frustrating because too often you see guys get away with illegal picks. Not surprising when it's a fast-paced judgment call where intent factors in. To simplify the game, maybe picks/rubs should just be legal. I would prefer that they would be illegal. It would be easier to officiate than the other way around, I think.
billsfan89 Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) They really need to find a way to crack down on it. I Think it's ruining the game. It's a cheap play that makes everything a dink and dunk check down type play, then once teams stack the short game via pick plays they take shots deep with ease. The deep passing game shouldn't be set up with a bunch of "Within the letter of the law but against the spirit of the law" type plays. It should be balanced with the running game, screen game, and the receivers ability against one on one matchups. It takes a lot of the strategy out of the game. If anyone has ever played a video game online they will get this, it's become a cheap exploit that everyone has to use which undermines the way the game is intentionally supposed to be played. Thus it just turns into a game of who can do that singular tacit better. As opposed to the natural checks and balances that are supposed to exist. "Defensive techniques used to combat the rubs and picks vary from team to team, and down to down. Some teams get even closer and more physical with the receiver so he can’t freely pick off a teammate. On some downs you’ll see defenders switch the players they’re covering." From what I see from film study of Rex Ryan defensive he does both of what is stated above to slow down the pick routes. Also I do not know why with the receivers that we have why we dont run these plays more often. My feeling are if you cant beat them join em in regards to this. The pick play has introduced a way for teams to get the short passing game going without having to set up any other element of the offense first. It used to be you have to run the ball in order to get teams to stack the box to open up shorter passing routes Or you have to throw deep to open up the underneath routes. Screens introduced a way to throw off over aggressive blitzing and stunting. There was a certain balance where offenses had to attack one element the running game or deep passes to open up short passing. But with picks you now give offense another avenue to open up offense that isn't reliant on being successful in another aspect of offensive attack. To sum up short passing should open up in reaction to success in another aspect of offense, not because some teams have skirted the rules to open it up via pick plays. Edited September 18, 2015 by billsfan89
The Dean Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 "Everybody does it!" I've noticed something while working in the bar business. Owners who believe "Everybody steals" tend to be guys who were thieves when they worked for someone else. "Everyone cheats" is the kind of thing cheaters honestly believe.
Prickly Pete Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) "Everybody does it!" I've noticed something while working in the bar business. Owners who believe "Everybody steals" tend to be guys who were thieves when they worked for someone else. "Everyone cheats" is the kind of thing cheaters honestly believe. Nope. I'm pretty cynical, but I don't steal. It's pretty obvious from reading sports autobiographies, listening to interviews of players, etc. that bending the rules and even cheating is pretty common. Like Jerry Rice and his stickum. And I bet there is footage of EVERY NFL team running a questionable pick play. Edited September 18, 2015 by HoF Watkins
DC Tom Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Nope. I'm pretty cynical, but I don't steal. Yeah, but you probably cheat.
The Dean Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Nope. I'm pretty cynical, but I don't steal. It's pretty obvious from reading sports autobiographies, listening to interviews of players, etc. that bending the rules and even cheating is pretty common. Like Jerry Rice and his stickum. And I bet there is footage of EVERY NFL team running a questionable pick play. Honestly, I don't think running a pick play is technically "cheating" as it's done out in the open, and the refs should call it when it is illegal. Of course, if you are an influential owner, and the refs are cautioned against calling them as they see them--well, that's another story altogether. And, let's be clear, I'm not accusing the Pats* of doing that. Not at this point in time, anyway. But it isn't as if everyone pushes the limits of the rules, as much as possible, at every turn---but the Pats* clearly do. You can either admire that, or suggest it is terrible sportsmanship. It's really the other areas where the Pats* push the rules (and which aren't out in the open) that opens the organization up to accusations of cheating. The pick plays, formation games, etc, just give added credence to the claims.
Prickly Pete Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) Yeah, but you probably cheat. Honestly, I don't think running a pick play is technically "cheating" as it's done out in the open, and the refs should call it when it is illegal. Of course, if you are an influential owner, and the refs are cautioned against calling them as they see them--well, that's another story altogether. And, let's be clear, I'm not accusing the Pats* of doing that. Not at this point in time, anyway. But it isn't as if everyone pushes the limits of the rules, as much as possible, at every turn---but the Pats* clearly do. You can either admire that, or suggest it is terrible sportsmanship. It's really the other areas where the Pats* push the rules (and which aren't out in the open) that opens the organization up to accusations of cheating. The pick plays, formation games, etc, just give added credence to the claims. There is no need to question my morality. I'm plenty virtuous, and have NEVER cheated at any sport (organized, or just pick-up). I wouldn't feel fulfilled winning that way. I don't like what the Patriots do, and I can't stand the pick play, but to act like every team doesn't try to skirt the rules sometimes, is whining to me. Everyone's "angel", Peyton Manning, runs plenty of picks with the Broncos, but no one even mentioned them, and they are who the article is about! Edited September 19, 2015 by HoF Watkins
The Dean Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 There is no need to question my morality. I'm plenty virtuous, and have NEVER cheated at any sport (organized, or just pick-up). I wouldn't feel fulfilled winning that way. I don't like what the Patriots do, and I can't stand the pick play, but to act like every team doesn't try to skirt the rules sometimes, is whining to me. Everyone's "angel", Peyton Manning, runs plenty of picks with the Broncos, but no one even mentioned them, and they are who the article is about! For years the Broncos used a blocking scheme considered not only questionably legal, but actually potentially dangerous to the opposition. What I don't remember the Broncos doing is the other, off the field stuff, the Pat's* have been accused (and caught) doing.
BuffaloBill Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 For years the Broncos used a blocking scheme considered not only questionably legal, but actually potentially dangerous to the opposition. What I don't remember the Broncos doing is the other, off the field stuff, the Pat's* have been accused (and caught) doing. There was a lot of crap that has been made illegal, chop blocks, horse collar tackles, etc. the refs are not going to catch everything. The Cheats* however have a culture of pushing and sometimes exceeding the limits. To your points perhaps the Broncos and others do also.
Prickly Pete Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) For years the Broncos used a blocking scheme considered not only questionably legal, but actually potentially dangerous to the opposition. What I don't remember the Broncos doing is the other, off the field stuff, the Pat's* have been accused (and caught) doing. http://yourteamcheats.com/DEN They even have their own "Spygate". This bickering is ridiculous. Pick plays are used by every team, get over it. Edited September 19, 2015 by HoF Watkins
Dr. K Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 "Everybody does it!" I've noticed something while working in the bar business. Owners who believe "Everybody steals" tend to be guys who were thieves when they worked for someone else. "Everyone cheats" is the kind of thing cheaters honestly believe. Yes. Unfortunately, such people have been around as long as there have been people. And cheaters will use that as an excuse to say that cheating is all right, to the point that it's as if there is no such thing as cheating.
The Dean Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 http://yourteamcheats.com/DEN They even have their own "Spygate". This bickering is ridiculous. Pick plays are used by every team, get over it. That site is run by a Pat* fan trying to misdirect people from the Pat* may scandals. Read their reviews carefully and you will see their ratings are BS. But to the pick play issue, yes, everyone runs some pick plays. The Pats* run a LOT of them. Some of them (many?) should be flagged, and they aren't being called. The Bills would be stupid to not bring this to the ref's attentions. And the publicity this issue is getting this week, should bring some more attention on them, this week (unless of course, they have an inside cheat with the NFL).
DC Tom Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 There is no need to question my morality. I'm plenty virtuous, and have NEVER cheated at any sport (organized, or just pick-up). I wouldn't feel fulfilled winning that way. I don't like what the Patriots do, and I can't stand the pick play, but to act like every team doesn't try to skirt the rules sometimes, is whining to me. Everyone's "angel", Peyton Manning, runs plenty of picks with the Broncos, but no one even mentioned them, and they are who the article is about! Of course not. If you do it, it's not cheating.
Mr. WEO Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 No one has run more pick plays over the past few years than Manning's Broncos.
billsfan89 Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Honestly, I don't think running a pick play is technically "cheating" as it's done out in the open, and the refs should call it when it is illegal. Of course, if you are an influential owner, and the refs are cautioned against calling them as they see them--well, that's another story altogether. And, let's be clear, I'm not accusing the Pats* of doing that. Not at this point in time, anyway. But it isn't as if everyone pushes the limits of the rules, as much as possible, at every turn---but the Pats* clearly do. You can either admire that, or suggest it is terrible sportsmanship. It's really the other areas where the Pats* push the rules (and which aren't out in the open) that opens the organization up to accusations of cheating. The pick plays, formation games, etc, just give added credence to the claims. You can't blame the teams really, on the field if you can get an advantage by pushing the grey area of a rule you would hard pressed to find a team not doing it. But the league has to step in and enforce it consistently. If the rule is too ambigious and it's too much of a judgement call for the refs then you have to put some sort of emphasis or adjustment on the rule. Much like Seattle pushed the contact rules the NFL snapped back the emphasis to make sure illegal contact and pass interference was called consistenly. This pick play stuff has got to go it's not consistently or fairly enforced.
Prickly Pete Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) You can't blame the teams really, on the field if you can get an advantage by pushing the grey area of a rule you would hard pressed to find a team not doing it. But the league has to step in and enforce it consistently. If the rule is too ambigious and it's too much of a judgement call for the refs then you have to put some sort of emphasis or adjustment on the rule. Much like Seattle pushed the contact rules the NFL snapped back the emphasis to make sure illegal contact and pass interference was called consistenly. This pick play stuff has got to go it's not consistently or fairly enforced. Good points, but no one here actually cares about the pick plays, man. It's really just another opportunity to whine about the Patriots. Edited September 19, 2015 by HoF Watkins
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