87168 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Playing devil's advocate here, then why go and trade up for Sammy if this was going to be how you run your system...the better pick would have been the best OL available or trading out for other talent. I like Sammy but agree that the best WRs in the game find ways. Its week 1 and I am not panicking but I bet Sammy ain't happy... you do realize Sammy was drafted during the Marrone, Hackett administration? I doubt their offensive scheme, or lack thereof, matched that of Rex and Roman. When the Bills traded up for Sammy, we did NOT have Harvin, McCoy, Karlos Williams, or Clay.
BUFFALOTONE Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 you do realize Sammy was drafted during the Marrone, Hackett administration? I doubt their offensive scheme, or lack thereof, matched that of Rex and Roman. When the Bills traded up for Sammy, we did NOT have Harvin, McCoy, Karlos Williams, or Clay. So Marrone/Hackett built the team or Whaley?
DirtDart Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 What a bunch of nonsense. Do you actually watch him? There's a reason he's consitently double teamed, often still demanding the best cb. Maybe you just don't like having lots of good skill players?Exactly. Sammy being doubled leaves someone else open. It's a team sport. I am sure Sammy will be happy being kept out of the score sheet as long as they win.
BUFFALOTONE Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Exactly. Sammy being doubled leaves someone else open. It's a team sport. I am sure Sammy will be happy being kept out of the score sheet as long as they win. It did, Harvin ha a nice day.
NoSaint Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Because it's riskier than giving the ball to Woods or Harvin in single coverage.Tell me how any of the things I listed are riskier? Genuinely I don't see how lining him up in the backfield and motioning him out in hopes of forcing a preferred coverage is riskier. If it doesn't work and he's still doubled you still have the other targets. A carry is riskier? How is designing a pick play for him riskier? Also, don't forget that the defense is telling you that sammys touches are considered higher reward. Edited September 17, 2015 by NoSaint
87168 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 So Marrone/Hackett built the team or Whaley? Those were the two individuals responsible for the offensive scheme... I don't get your point. you're focusing on a draft that happened 2 seasons ago, during a time when the BILLS had very little weapons on offense. We needed key players. Whaley got one. Regardless of whether you agree with the move or not, it can't be refuted that Sammy is a key component to this offense. Targeted or not.
Charles Romes Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Watching Julio Jones dominate the other night made me wonder whether Sammy can ever get to that level. His lack of size has always bothered me and made me wonder whether he is really worth a 4th overall. Julio is 6'3 230. The other forces of nature Calvin and Dez are evn bigger.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 What a bunch of nonsense. Do you actually watch him? There's a reason he's consitently double teamed, often still demanding the best cb. Maybe you just don't like having lots of good skill players? Ditto
CountDorkula Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Watching Julio Jones dominate the other night made me wonder whether Sammy can ever get to that level. His lack of size has always bothered me and made me wonder whether he is really worth a 4th overall. Julio is 6'3 230. The other forces of nature Calvin and Dez are evn bigger. ONE GAME. ONE
NoSaint Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 ONE GAME. ONE I'll underscore that I think we see a lot of the stuff I'm describing along the way but it really surprises me that we have people arguing we would be worse off if we try to create space/matchups for Sammy.
FireChan Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Oh please. You know what you infer, and you always fall back on this nonsense. You're a pompous piece of ****. And yes I'll take my warning points or ban for that. I inferred the reason Sammy should get the ball is solely because he cost a couple picks? Where?
Nanker Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) I'll underscore that I think we see a lot of the stuff I'm describing along the way but it really surprises me that we have people arguing we would be worse off if we try to create space/matchups for Sammy.I'm wondering if it has something to do with Rex's paranoia/preparation for his arch nemesis this week. The P***s have tape on Sammy from last year but essentially nothing on him in Roman's Offense. Come to think of that might have factored in somewhat in how little the starters played in the preseason. I think if that's the case, the wraps will definitely come off any special Sammy plays this week. Edited September 17, 2015 by Nanker
BUFFALOTONE Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Those were the two individuals responsible for the offensive scheme... I don't get your point. you're focusing on a draft that happened 2 seasons ago, during a time when the BILLS had very little weapons on offense. We needed key players. Whaley got one. Regardless of whether you agree with the move or not, it can't be refuted that Sammy is a key component to this offense. Targeted or not. I'm not arguing the pick. As I stated I was playing Devil's Advocate that we are going to just pound the ball 70% of the time. We did add talent to the offense, its apparent. Who cares if the draft was two seasons ago, it defines the F/O plans for the future. Regardless of what the defense gives you, when you have a dynamic player like Sammy, you find way to get him the ball. NOT force into double coverage like others mentioned in the thread, isolate him, put him in motion, line him up as a RB. Maybe Roman has plans to do so, just spouting off here.
87168 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) I'm not arguing the pick. As I stated I was playing Devil's Advocate that we are going to just pound the ball 70% of the time. We did add talent to the offense, its apparent. Who cares if the draft was two seasons ago, it defines the F/O plans for the future. Regardless of what the defense gives you, when you have a dynamic player like Sammy, you find way to get him the ball. NOT force into double coverage like others mentioned in the thread, isolate him, put him in motion, line him up as a RB. Maybe Roman has plans to do so, just spouting off here. well said! touche Edited September 17, 2015 by 87168
BringBackFergy Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 We actually gave up 7 Picks for Sammy: Gronk was a second round pick but he gets covered by 3 defenders so Gronk creates a net benefit to his team of +8 (11 defenders - 3 guys on Gronk = Net +8 VDDR (Value on Draft Day Ratio) Sammy was a first round pick but he gets covered by the top CB (1 defender) so Sammy creates a net benefit to the Bills of +10 (11 defenders - 1 guy on Sammy = Net +10 VDDR The higher the VDDR the less important the player and you can use the difference between Sammy and Gronk's VDDR to add to the other picks we gave up... So when you add 2 (10 VDDR - 8 VDDR) to the other 5 picks we gave up for Sammy, we actually gave up 7 picks.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Playing devil's advocate here, then why go and trade up for Sammy if this was going to be how you run your system...the better pick would have been the best OL available or trading out for other talent. I like Sammy but agree that the best WRs in the game find ways. Its week 1 and I am not panicking but I bet Sammy ain't happy... Urrrrr....because in 2014 when we made the trade-up for Sammy, Rex and Roman weren't our coaches and we weren't running Roman's system? Look, Sammy is going to be a great player provided he stays healthy. That was Tyrod Taylor's 1st NFL start, and he/Sammy have commented on needing to do extra work to get in sync after Sammy missed so much preseason. Give it time. We won. We actually gave up 7 Picks for Sammy: Gronk was a second round pick but he gets covered by 3 defenders so Gronk creates a net benefit to his team of +8 (11 defenders - 3 guys on Gronk = Net +8 VDDR (Value on Draft Day Ratio) Sammy was a first round pick but he gets covered by the top CB (1 defender) so Sammy creates a net benefit to the Bills of +10 (11 defenders - 1 guy on Sammy = Net +10 VDDR The higher the VDDR the less important the player and you can use the difference between Sammy and Gronk's VDDR to add to the other picks we gave up... So when you add 2 (10 VDDR - 8 VDDR) to the other 5 picks we gave up for Sammy, we actually gave up 7 picks. I'm very proud to say I don't understand this argument at all and I'm a fairly intense stats maven. What the **** is VDDR? In the Steelers game last Thurs at times Gronk was covered by 0 defenders so I guess that makes him 11 VDDR by your argument less important? Edited September 17, 2015 by Hopeful
thebandit27 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 I'm very proud to say I don't understand this argument at all and I'm a fairly intense stats maven. What the **** is VDDR? In the Steelers game last Thurs at times Gronk was covered by 0 defenders so I guess that makes him 11 VDDR by your argument less important? He's fooling around...and deserves a beer for his efforts
TallskiWallski83 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Don't blame Sammy blame the bills for not trying to figure out creative ways to get him the ball. Look at Julio Jones in Atlanta, he was lining up all over the field catching bubble screens hooks digs go routes etc. Sammy should never have a game where he registers 0 catches again. Planning on using Sammy as a decoy (which last year's coaches did numerous times, and roman did last week) is a recipe for failure over the long term
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