JohnC Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) @WALLACHLEGAL: Here are the NFLs issues on appeal in #deflategate (just uploaded on Second Circuit website): http://t.co/zydoLrkWj9Abby Lowell is one of the top attorneys (criminal/civl) in the country. He has handled many high profile cases. He was asked on a radio show shortly after the judge's ruling what were the chances of the league winning on appeal. He said zero. In his response Lowell said that in the way that the judge wrote/structured his ruling with the focus on the process that there was little room to make a case for an overturn. IIn his opinion the judge cited too many blatant examples of violations of conduct for any panel to overturn the initial ruling. He also brought up the issue of the timing of an appeal hearing. He felt that the league can't makie a good case for an expedited hearing because in his opinion the league can't make a good argument that there would be irreparable damage if the current ruling went into effect, which it has. The incompetent Roger Goodell can file an appeal which he said he would do. There is a good chance that the issue wouldn't be taken up by the apellate panel for another year or so. As this case clearly demonstrates Roger Goodell's record when his judgments are reviewed by outside authorities is not very good. He is zero for 6 and still counting. Roger Goodell willingness to file an appeal in a jurisdiction that he sought (ran to) in a case that he was forcefully repudiated is not a demonstration of his wisdon, it is another demonstration among many of his foolishness. Edited September 17, 2015 by JohnC
K-9 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 McNally's history -- very interesting: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/17/former-nfl-official-reported-mcnally-six-or-eight-years-ago/ Florio is still clueless. He wonders why McNally didn't testify at Brady's appeal hearing? Really? Even casual followers knew that the league had no power to ask him McNally to testify as he wasn't an employee of the Pats****. The league asked Brady if they would have McNally testify and they smartly declined. Florio leaves a lot to be desired. GO BILLS!!!
PromoTheRobot Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 http://nesn.com/2015/09/chris-simms-patriots-staffers-reinstatement-shows-tom-bradys-guilty/
JohnC Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Florio is still clueless. He wonders why McNally didn't testify at Brady's appeal hearing? Really? Even casual followers knew that the league had no power to ask him McNally to testify as he wasn't an employee of the Pats****. The league asked Brady if they would have McNally testify and they smartly declined. Florio leaves a lot to be desired. GO BILLS!!! The ball boys already testified in a full session with Ted Wells and his investigators. What questions that could have been asked in the first session needed to be asked in the second session? They already testified under oath. Their statements were on record. No lawyer who isn't an imbecile would have advised the ball boys to again testify when they were not required to testify. Compare that to how RG would not make Pash available in the appeals hearing? Pash is a Harvard trained attorney and a very accomplished attorney. The law required Pash to answer questions and provide his notes in the appeal proceedings. RG and Pash were adament that he (Pash) would not answer questions and provide notes that he was obligated to do. So to summarize your position you are indignant that the ball boys who were not required to appear at the appeal hearing didn't appear but you ignore the fact that Pash who was legally bound to provide his notes and answer questions didn't do what he was required to do. It should be noted that the judged cited as one of his reasons (among many) he overturned RG's ruling is that Pash didn't abide by the rules of discovery Do you see the contradiction in your position? Edited September 18, 2015 by JohnC
3rdand12 Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Give the Patriots'**** lawyers credit. As soon as wells said he wanted to interview them again, they were fired. At that point the league could not compel them to testify further. Why teams fire employees for something they didn't do is a mystery. GO BILLS!!! Seems like its a game of chess, or checkers between Rog Owners Nflpa and Patriots. May i suggest so subtly , that something is still bubbling behind the curtains. The Jones / Ammaro dust up should have gone a bit further as the Suh / Morris may well should have too. It astounds me how so many are taking the judge's overturning of Brady*'s suspension to be an exoneration of Brady* and the Pats***. We're talking about a fundamental misunderstanding of what occurred in the legal system. The process was ruled to be unfair. The facts behind the ball deflation were not scrutinized or heard before a trier of fact (aside from Goodell). The reinstatement of NeedleDee and NeedleDum is hilarious. This is a rather important feature for anyone who might want to reach a conclusion. The ruling is a separate matter altogether Abby Lowell is one of the top attorneys (criminal/civl) in the country. He has handled many high profile cases. He was asked on a radio show shortly after the judge's ruling what were the chances of the league winning on appeal. He said zero. In his response Lowell said that in the way that the judge wrote/structured his ruling with the focus on the process that there was little room to make a case for an overturn. IIn his opinion the judge cited too many blatant examples of violations of conduct for any panel to overturn the initial ruling. He also brought up the issue of the timing of an appeal hearing. He felt that the league can't makie a good case for an expedited hearing because in his opinion the league can't make a good argument that there would be irreparable damage if the current ruling went into effect, which it has. The incompetent Roger Goodell can file an appeal which he said he would do. There is a good chance that the issue wouldn't be taken up by the apellate panel for another year or so. As this case clearly demonstrates Roger Goodell's record when his judgments are reviewed by outside authorities is not very good. He is zero for 6 and still counting. Roger Goodell willingness to file an appeal in a jurisdiction that he sought (ran to) in a case that he was forcefully repudiated is not a demonstration of his wisdon, it is another demonstration among many of his foolishness. you are certainly aware that Roger Goodell is not exactly Roger Goodell. Its the NFL teams of lawyers and his personal advisors that are to blame?
K-9 Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 The ball boys already testified in a full session with Ted Wells and his investigators. What questions that could have been asked in the first session needed to be asked in the second session? They already testified under oath. Their statements were on record. No lawyer who isn't an imbecile would have advised the ball boys to again testify when they were not required to testify. Compare that to how RG would not make Pash available in the appeals hearing? Pash is a Harvard trained attorney and a very accomplished attorney. The law required Pash to answer questions and provide his notes in the appeal proceedings. RG and Pash were adament that he (Pash) would not answer questions and provide notes that he was obligated to do. So to summarize your position you are indignant that the ball boys who were not required to appear at the appeal hearing didn't appear but you ignore the fact that Pash who was legally bound to provide his notes and answer questions didn't do what he was required to do. It should be noted that the judged cited as one of his reasons (among many) he overturned RG's ruling is that Pash didn't abide by the rules of discovery Do you see the contradiction in your position? Wow. This post is totally off base and has nothing at all to do with my critique of Florio. Did you read the Florio piece? Specifically the part where he doesn't understand why the league didn't ask McNally to testify at Brady's appeal hearing? You either have me confused with someone else, or you are totally clueless as to what I was referring to in my post. Unbelievable. GO BILLS!!! Seems like its a game of chess, or checkers between Rog Owners Nflpa and Patriots. May i suggest so subtly , that something is still bubbling behind the curtains. The Jones / Ammaro dust up should have gone a bit further as the Suh / Morris may well should have too. This is a rather important feature for anyone who might want to reach a conclusion. The ruling is a separate matter altogether you are certainly aware that Roger Goodell is not exactly Roger Goodell. Its the NFL teams of lawyers and his personal advisors that are to blame? Bold text 1: I'm not sure how much of a chess piece it is at this point. And there's always something bubbling somewhere it seems. Bold text 2: Exactly. This isn't "Roger Goodell" filing an appeal. And to a smaller extent, it's not the league's lawyers, either. The only reason this hasn't been dropped officially is because there is a sizable cadre of other owners who want these appeals. GO BILLS!!!
l< j Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 The ball boys already testified in a full session with Ted Wells and his investigators. What questions that could have been asked in the first session needed to be asked in the second session? They already testified under oath. Their statements were on record. No lawyer who isn't an imbecile would have advised the ball boys to again testify when they were not required to testify. Compare that to how RG would not make Pash available in the appeals hearing? Pash is a Harvard trained attorney and a very accomplished attorney. The law required Pash to answer questions and provide his notes in the appeal proceedings. RG and Pash were adament that he (Pash) would not answer questions and provide notes that he was obligated to do. So to summarize your position you are indignant that the ball boys who were not required to appear at the appeal hearing didn't appear but you ignore the fact that Pash who was legally bound to provide his notes and answer questions didn't do what he was required to do. It should be noted that the judged cited as one of his reasons (among many) he overturned RG's ruling is that Pash didn't abide by the rules of discovery Do you see the contradiction in your position? And you are angry with Goodell because you feel he can't follow the rules but want to overlook the fact that the Pats just rehired a guy who stole game balls from an official. Stole game balls from an official. While Goodell may have--maybe-- overstepped, nothing he did rises to that level of cheating. Do you see that contradiction?
Robert James Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Yea, what ever happened to the appeal? Today the NFL filed its notice of appeal. Once the Second Circuit recieves the full record in the case, the NFL has 14 days to request a date for filing its initial brief -- up to 91days. After the NFL files its initial brief, the NFLPA requests the date for its reply brief, again up to 91 days. Then the NFL has 14 days to file a reply brief. Once the case is fully briefed, the Second Circuit will schedule it for oral argument. It could easily take a few months before the argument is heard (I looked and the calendar is already full through early November). After oral argument, the judges will probably take a few months to conference and prepare their decison(s). Then either party could seek rehearing. TMI? Bottom line: there will almost certainly be a new Super Bowl champ before there is a final decision from the Second Circuit.
Marv's Neighbor Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 A modern day Rosencrantz & Guilderstern!
3rdand12 Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Wow. This post is totally off base and has nothing at all to do with my critique of Florio. Did you read the Florio piece? Specifically the part where he doesn't understand why the league didn't ask McNally to testify at Brady's appeal hearing? You either have me confused with someone else, or you are totally clueless as to what I was referring to in my post. Unbelievable. GO BILLS!!! Bold text 1: I'm not sure how much of a chess piece it is at this point. And there's always something bubbling somewhere it seems. Bold text 2: Exactly. This isn't "Roger Goodell" filing an appeal. And to a smaller extent, it's not the league's lawyers, either. The only reason this hasn't been dropped officially is because there is a sizable cadre of other owners who want these appeals. GO BILLS!!! It's interesting to me the shifting of the owners perspective of late. I may never know and only make assumption. But feels like the NFL "shield " is changing before our eyes. Florio is a trip for sure. On the Patriots and Goodell especially!!
The Wiz Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 So will these two needledicks continually be fired and rehired as the appeal goes on or do they just not care anymore?
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Chris makes a valid point “Any time you have low-level employees, not making a lot of money, for a billion-dollar corporation, that dragged this organization through the mud for the last eight or nine months, they would have been fired right away,” said Simms, a former NFL quarterback who’s now an analyst for Bleacher Report. “But, oh wait, we know they were following orders from someone — Tom Brady — to take air out of the football. WHY? They cost Kraft a Million dollars and draft picks!!! They either have dirt on someone, are illegitimate family members or Kraft is simply shoving this into the face of the NFL. We got away with it so FU.
Robert James Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 So will these two needledicks continually be fired and rehired as the appeal goes on or do they just not care anymore? The record is closed on appeal and the Second Circuit won't consider new evidence. So, Needledee and Needledum can remain Patriots employees, where they probably are under a nondisclosure agreement forbidding them from talking to anyone.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 @laurenhallnews4 Currently front and center at the Bills store:
eball Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 This is a rather important feature for anyone who might want to reach a conclusion. The ruling is a separate matter altogether Yes. Brady* is not serving a suspension right now for one reason only -- the judge essentially ruled that since the NFL never told its players an equipment tampering or failure to cooperate violation could be dealt with in the same manner as a PED violation, they couldn't impose a penalty on that basis. Period.
Matt in KC Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Today the NFL filed its notice of appeal. Once the Second Circuit recieves the full record in the case, the NFL has 14 days to request a date for filing its initial brief -- up to 91days. After the NFL files its initial brief, the NFLPA requests the date for its reply brief, again up to 91 days. Then the NFL has 14 days to file a reply brief. Once the case is fully briefed, the Second Circuit will schedule it for oral argument. It could easily take a few months before the argument is heard (I looked and the calendar is already full through early November). After oral argument, the judges will probably take a few months to conference and prepare their decison(s). Then either party could seek rehearing. TMI? Bottom line: there will almost certainly be a new Super Bowl champ before there is a final decision from the Second Circuit. Thanks for those details!
26CornerBlitz Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 @laurenhallnews4 Currently front and center at the Bills store:
26CornerBlitz Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 @mikerodak Walk into the Bills' official team store Friday morning, and the first thing you'll see?... http://espn.go.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0436538374585585843-4
Recommended Posts