Nihilarian Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 If your not cheating, then your not trying hard enough The Commish burned the tapes when there was an actual senate investigation ongoing, and now when he wants to make them pay for continued cheating he can't as the league won't allow it. Lets face it, the league isn't going to tarnish their shield no matter what. Tom Brady won't play forever...
Prickly Pete Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) the judge did not even come close to ruling on whether or not Brady/Pats deflated the balls...and you know that. I am sure you will use some 10 cent words to show your intellectual process in your reply, but the fact remains he did not rule on whether or not Brady cheated. In regards to the bold....Explain to me then WHY ON GODS GREEN EARTH THEY DO IT???? God, if Belicheck is such a freaking genius do you really believe he would do something and spend time on something that gave them no benefit? They both cant be true now can they., Like i said earlier, its some perverse joy you and Watkins get out of posting here. I am fairly certain you two have some twisted back stories How do you know Belichick had anything to do with it? I think it was all Brady, who liked to have a better grip, and didn't think he would get in much trouble for such a minor indiscretion, if he was caught. And again I ask, if it really cuts down on fumbles and is easier to catch, why haven't teams throughout the league switched to the lowest allowable PSI for their balls? Edited September 11, 2015 by HoF Watkins
ChasBB Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 If your not cheating, then your not trying hard enough The Commish burned the tapes when there was an actual senate investigation ongoing, and now when he wants to make them pay for continued cheating he can't as the league won't allow it. Lets face it, the league isn't going to tarnish their shield no matter what. Tom Brady won't play forever... Well, Tom Brady won't be playing forever, but the real master mind behind the cheating - Ernie Adams - probably not going away anytime soon.
plenzmd1 Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) This may not be exactly what you're asking, but....it's entirely possible for someone to genuinely have the talent and drive to legitimately succeed but to be driven to skirt, stretch, bend, and break the rules (cheat). IMHO that is the sort of dynamic at work with Belicheck*** and Brady***. I can't explain "why" though. It's one of those mysteries of human psychology. Well established that it happens in all sorts of endeavors, though. Thank you...and i am not quite familiar about the concept you mention. I just cant see how in one breath you acknowledge they skirt/break the rules, next breath say Belicheck is a genius, and in next breath say that said skirting/breaing of rules has no impact on game. It just makes no sense. If skirting/breaking the rules had an impact on one play, just one play in the Ravens game what happens? If during the Spygate years...if Pats win 10 more plays a year that they would have lost...and lose a game or two more and homefielld is affected...guess that does not matter.What if that one game puts Pats as a 3 seed instead of 1 or two? And yes, we all know 10 plays a year could mean that much. And after all, Belicheck himself according to lore says it helped maybe 1%...well if thay ran 1000 plays that year, 10 plays would be about 1% I absolutely believe Belicheck is a genius, best coach of all time. Thats why i also think these things matter...he is way to smrt to waste time on trivialities and expose himself and his legacy on worthless endeavors. How do you know Belichick had anything to do with it? I think it was all Brady, who liked to have a better grip, and didn't think he would get in much trouble for such a minor indiscretion, if he was caught. And again I ask, if it really cuts down on fumbles and is easier to catch, why haven't teams throughout the league switched to the lowest allowable PSI for their balls? What...who says they haven't? in case you missed it..deflate gate was not because the balls were at the lowest allowable limit...it is because they were BELOW the limit...Is that really hard to comprehend? And deflate gate is just one of several incidents...why you all can not take these things as a whole rather than isolated incidents is beyond me.That is where the venom comes from, the smugness of pats fans and that organisation pretending Pats won with talent, and all of these incidents of cheating just mean nothing...cause they say so! Reminds me of when a WR gets held on a timing pattern, and refs say no PI cause ball was un-catchable. Maybe it was uncatchable cause WR could not get there as he was being held. Edited September 11, 2015 by plenzmd1
Prickly Pete Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Thank you...and i am not quite familiar about the concept you mention. I just cant see how in one breath you acknowledge they skirt/break the rules, next breath say Belicheck is a genius, and in next breath say that said skirting/breaing of rules has no impact on game. It just makes no sense. If skirting/breaking the rules had an impact on one play, just one play in the Ravens game...during the Spygate years...if Pats win 10 more plays a year that they would have lost...and lose a game or two more and homefielld is affected...guess that does not matter.What if that one game puts Pats as a 3 seed instead of 1 or two? And yes, we all know 10 plays a year could mean that much I absolutely believe Belicheck is a genius, best coach of all time. Thats why i also think these things matter...he is way to smrt to waste time on trivialities and expose himself and his legacy on worthless endeavors. What...who says they haven't? in case you missed it..deflate gate was not because the balls were at the lowest allowable limit...it is because they were BELOW the limit...Is that really hard to comprehend? I see, so it's only effective if it's LESS than 12.5 PSI... effing ridiculous! "You gotta get it down to 11.0, and then the magic kicks in, Tom" - Bill Belichick to Tom Brady I hope the Bills are using the low PSI.... Wawrow, get on it! I have inquired, and no one seems to have any answer, but I'm guessing that teams haven't. I would think it would be a common question posed to coaches this season. Edited September 11, 2015 by HoF Watkins
JohnC Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) you know as well as anyone that the judge didn't rule on his cheating. The case is closed. The judge slammed the door on the league and forcefully rebuked the league for its foolishness. If you are waiting with great anticipation that a farfetched appeal by the league and the inept Roger will change the outcome of the initial ruling then go ahead and wait with great anticipation. If you believe that the Pats cheated and got away with and you can't accept that reality then go ahead and continue to believe what you want. If that rocks your boat then keep rocking. The end result is not going to change. I'm not going to change your mind and you are not going to change my mind. When you reach a dead end and don't accept that it is a dead end then be prepared to be stuck where you are. The reality is not going to change no matter how much you want it to be so. I'm more concerned with how TT is going to play. That is an issue that will impact the Bills---not this trivial "air" issue. The distinguished judge in this case made a determinatin with clarity, force and indignation. You may be into BS but he wasn't. "you know as well as anyone that the judge didn't rule on his cheating." The judge ruled on that which he was supposed to rule. The case is closed. Edited September 11, 2015 by JohnC
plenzmd1 Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 I see, so it's only effective if it's LESS than 12.5 PSI... effing ridiculous! I hope the Bills are using the low PSI.... Wawrow, get on it! I have inquired, but no one seems to know, but I'm guessing that teams haven't. I would think it would be a common question posed to coaches this season. are you really this hard headed. the freaking rule is the ball can not be inflated under 12.5...period! Deflategate says the Pats intentionally went below that. Period! what part of that is lost in translation? The case is closed. The judge slammed the door on the league and forcefully rebuked the league for its foolishness. If you are waiting with great anticipation that a farfetched appeal by the league and the inept Roger will change the outcome of the initial ruling then go ahead and wait with great anticipation. If you believe that the Pats cheated and got away with and you can't accept that reality then go ahead and continue to believe what you want. If that rocks your boat then keep rocking. The end result is not going to change. I'm not going to change your mind and you are not going to change my mind. When you reach a dead end and don't accept that it is a dead end then be prepared to be stuck where you are. The reality is not going to change no matter how much you want it to be so. I'm more concerned with how TT is going to play. That is an issue that will impact the Bills---not this trivial "air" issue. The distinguished judge in this case made a determinatin with clarity, force and indignation. You may be into BS but he wasn't. "you know as well as anyone that the judge didn't rule on his cheating." The judge ruled on that which he was supposed to rule. The case is closed. John, simple yes or no.One word answer please Did the judge rule whether or not Brady was"generally aware the balls had been deflated"?
Kelly the Dog Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 The case is closed. The judge slammed the door on the league and forcefully rebuked the league for its foolishness. If you are waiting with great anticipation that a farfetched appeal by the league and the inept Roger will change the outcome of the initial ruling then go ahead and wait with great anticipation. If you believe that the Pats cheated and got away with and you can't accept that reality then go ahead and continue to believe what you want. If that rocks your boat then keep rocking. The end result is not going to change. I'm not going to change your mind and you are not going to change my mind. When you reach a dead end and don't accept that it is a dead end then be prepared to be stuck where you are. The reality is not going to change no matter how much you want it to be so. I'm more concerned with how TT is going to play. That is an issue that will impact the Bills---not this trivial "air" issue. The distinguished judge in this case made a determinatin with clarity, force and indignation. You may be into BS but he wasn't. "you know as well as anyone that the judge didn't rule on his cheating." The judge ruled on that which he was supposed to rule. The case is closed. That's one of your more disingenuous posts. Thanks for the smile. The judge ruled the NFL screwed up. Which they did. You're seemingly incapable of seeing how two things can be simultaneously occurring. And for someone who seems like a pretty intelligent guy, your harping on the fact the NFL is often wrong and goes too far so it eliminates the fact of what Brady and the Patriots did was worse is ridiculous. They cheated. Everyone but you and Pats fans and a few other misguided souls see it clearly. Just because Goodell is an idiot doesn't negate the cold hard facts. Brady cheated and lied and destroyed evidence. There isn't really any question about it.
8-8 Forever? Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 Well, we could start by assigning a guy to cover him. The steelers didn't even make it that far Steelers are bad on D. Bills are good on D. Don't take much from that game. Brady will make some throws. He's good. But they will get him to him and play press coverage. Totally different from the Steelers approach. Watch how fast Luck will be needing to get rid of it.
JohnC Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 the judge did not even come close to ruling on whether or not Brady/Pats deflated the balls...and you know that. I am sure you will use some 10 cent words to show your intellectual process in your reply, but the fact remains he did not rule on whether or not Brady cheated. I'll repeat what I told Kelly the Dog. The appellate judge ruled on what he was supposed to rule on. The league and Roger Goodell were forcefully rebuked for bringing this absurd case to his court room. In his scolding of the league and Roger he made it abundantly clear that their unethical and incompetent behavior was not to be tolerated. You can believe whatever you want to believe regardless of the court ruling. That is your prerogative. If it makes you happy then be happy.
plenzmd1 Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 I'll repeat what I told Kelly the Dog. The appellate judge ruled on what he was supposed to rule on. The league and Roger Goodell were forcefully rebuked for bringing this absurd case to his court room. In his scolding of the league and Roger he made it abundantly clear that their unethical and incompetent behavior was not to be tolerated. You can believe whatever you want to believe regardless of the court ruling. That is your prerogative. If it makes you happy then be happy. you a funny guy..incapable of answering a simple yes or no question.
birdog1960 Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 ? Paranoia. I wasn't trying to twist your words. I'm just mentioning that I would think teams would adapt that part of how the Patriots approached PSI. I'm not exonerating them, I'm pointing out that lower PSI leads to leas fumbles, the every team should be using balls as the lowest allowable PSI. (Work on your syntax) yes, because ?paranoia is so much more grammatically correct. changing the pressure below a predetermined threshold is breaking the rules just as is filing down the grooves on my gap wedge deeper than a defined depth (i would never do that!). sports rules aren't relative except apparently, in the case of the patsies*.
JohnC Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) That's one of your more disingenuous posts. Thanks for the smile. The judge ruled the NFL screwed up. Which they did. You're seemingly incapable of seeing how two things can be simultaneously occurring. And for someone who seems like a pretty intelligent guy, your harping on the fact the NFL is often wrong and goes too far so it eliminates the fact of what Brady and the Patriots did was worse is ridiculous. They cheated. Everyone but you and Pats fans and a few other misguided souls see it clearly. Just because Goodell is an idiot doesn't negate the cold hard facts. Brady cheated and lied and destroyed evidence. There isn't really any question about it. Brady swore in court that he did not instruct anyone to lower the PSI levels below the legal limit. I believe him--you don't. It's as simple as that. I have also stated from the first reporting of the the inflation matter that I considered it to be inconsequential to how it relates to player performance and outcome of any game. You don't accept that point. You have treated this issue as if it were an existential moral issue. I have treated it as a trivial BS issue. We simply disagree of the scale of this issue. You can be perturbed all you want about how this issue evolved and went down. The judge made a decisive ruling. You can accept it or not. How you handle the outcome is your choice. Edited September 11, 2015 by JohnC
plenzmd1 Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Brady swore in court that he did not instruct anyone to lower the PSI levels below the legal limit. I believe him--you don't. It's as simple as that. I have also stated from the first reporting of the the inflation matter that I considered it to be inconsequential to how it relates to player performance and outcome of any game. You don't accept that point. You have treated this issue as if it were an existential moral issue. I have treated it as a trivial BS issue. We simply disagree of the scale of this issue. You can be perturbed all you want about how this issue evolved and went down. The judge made a decisive ruling. You can accept it or not. How you handle the outcome is your choice. last post, and i am out. You use the court ruling as some sort of defacto argument that the judge ruled Brady did not know the balls were deflated. Lets even say that is the case.which its not, but you will not answer. We also have the last 15 years of allegations against the Pats..you and your ilk to argue they are so great that the minor rule breakages do not matter. Others argue the Pats are great because of the minor rule rule breakages. here is the title of the thread Pats are ruining love of NFL For the last 15 years, the Pats have been accused of skirting/breaking the rules...and guys like you and Watkins appear to agree they do. if your own owner and coach say Spygate affected 1% of their outcomes...and that translates to 10 plays a year they gain a distinct advantage...do you argue that as trivial? You argue Belicheck is heads and shoulders above his brethern(which i agree with), but in the same breath argue he spends time and effort on trivial activities that matter not to the outcome of the game? Nonsensical, and you know it. Thats whay the Pats are sapping the joy out of watching games...this is not pro wrassling...if people are convinced they cheat, it takes away the joy and fun of competition on an even playing field Edited September 11, 2015 by plenzmd1
Prickly Pete Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 are you really this hard headed. the freaking rule is the ball can not be inflated under 12.5...period! Deflategate says the Pats intentionally went below that. Period! what part of that is lost in translation? yes, because ?paranoia is so much more grammatically correct. changing the pressure below a predetermined threshold is breaking the rules just as is filing down the grooves on my gap wedge deeper than a defined depth (i would never do that!). sports rules aren't relative except apparently, in the case of the patsies*. The hard-heads are you guys. Let me lay it out for you. People are claiming that a softer ball is easier to catch, and easier to hold on to. Regardless of what the Patriots did or didn't do, it would stand to reason that, if a softer ball is easier to catch, and easier to hold on to, then teams would want their balls at the minimum LEGAL PSI. And if many teams have in fact changed to the lowest possible PSI, there should be a significant drop in the number of fumbles this season, no?
GunnerBill Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 In fairness to John and HOF the "the judge didn't rule on whether they cheated" is a nonsensical argument and entirely misunderstands law. A judge has no jurisdiction to rule on whether the Patriots cheated. That isn't a point of law. Judges rule on points of law. Whether the Patriots and particularly Tom Brady cheated or not is for the NFL disciplinary process to rule on. Any sports league is entitled to set up its own disciplinary process in order to preside over matter pertaining to that league and its players. The only legal requirements is that the process is lawful, clearly expressed and then followed to the letter. The judge ruled that the NFL did not follow its own due process as set out in its own rules. That is a point of law. On that basis the ruling of the NFL disciplinary committee is quashed because it was made without due process making it unlawful. That does not mean that the judge doesn't think the Patriots cheated... frankly he doesn't need to care whether they cheated. He just needs to care about whether the disciplinary process was lawfully exercised. Essentially there is now no substantive finding of guilt against Tom Brady and for that reason those who believe in his innocence are totally justified in doing so. What I will say, however, is that just because the NFL overstepped its own powers in respect of the process under which Brady was disciplined does not mean that he is not guilty of cheating. The two issues are separate. So whether Brady did it or not remains unresolved..... but it is not accurate to pretend that the NFL's judgement that he did still remains in place because that judgment was reached unlawfully.
DC Tom Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 The Patriots cheat. They have cheated, they are cheating, and they will continue to cheat, as the league has no disciplinary power to stop them.
GunnerBill Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 The Patriots cheat. They have cheated, they are cheating, and they will continue to cheat, as the league has no disciplinary power to stop them. My personal view is that this is probably the truth as it stands.
DC Tom Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 My personal view is that this is probably the truth as it stands. Just so you know, my eye roll isn't directed at you, so much as the entire tenor of this discussion.
Prickly Pete Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) In fairness to John and HOF the "the judge didn't rule on whether they cheated" is a nonsensical argument and entirely misunderstands law. I'm not really involved in the discussion about the judge's decision (I haven't fully read the comments in this thread regarding that). I believe that the Patriots cheated, I just don't think it's a big deal. Spy Gate was, Deflate-gate isn't. Edited September 12, 2015 by HoF Watkins
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