MTBill Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Cut/re-sign was all about benjamins, I see that now. I just hate the impression that they gave, EJ, you did well enough to be the backup, oh wait, no you didn't. the difference between backup and 3rd string from a confidence standpoint is probably much wider than it should be... because you fail to recognize the much larger gap between 3rd and 4th string (e.g. - not playing)... I'm very disappointed that MC is the backup - but maybe the staff knows something I don't. I hate all this BS about "starts matter".... bull ****. What matters is what you can do, and what tools you have around you. It's like experience seems so overrated - that's pretty much the only dimension Cassel has over E.J. Putting them on the field, he's inferior in pretty much every other way, but experience will tell you a bit on reading a defense and knowing how to exploit that, IF you have to tools to do so (which is where I don't buy that MC is worth a packet of sugar). I really hope we never have to find out, that TT will just excel and things will play out well. My main concern with TT is just that if they are going to have him running - it just seems a vulnerable situation to put your QB in for flukes (see EJ on the sideline run vs. Browns that ends season 1)...
3rdand12 Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 crazy times, crazy times. Rogue Whaley and nut bustin Rex
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 There was likely a less than 50-50 chance that Cassel was returning, and the deciding factor seemed to be that his wife was 8 months pregnant and he didn't want to uproot his family. So the idea that the Bills knew this was going to happen, or were not comfortable with EJ as the number two is rather absurd. In fact, when the Sabres signed Chad Ruwhedle a few years ago after his college career ended, his agent demanded that the Sabres keep him in the NHL rather than start him in Rochester. The Sabres agreed and he started in the NHL for the last several games of his rookie season. I would not doubt if one of the provisions of Cassel resigning was a promise of the number two position, at least to start the year. The point is the team had to be ready to go on with only EJ, hence the one day Tanney signing, which all but proves it. They didn't know they were getting Cassel back at all.
FireChan Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 There was likely a less than 50-50 chance that Cassel was returning, and the deciding factor seemed to be that his wife was 8 months pregnant and he didn't want to uproot his family. So the idea that the Bills knew this was going to happen, or were not comfortable with EJ as the number two is rather absurd. In fact, when the Sabres signed Chad Ruwhedle a few years ago after his college career ended, his agent demanded that the Sabres keep him in the NHL rather than start him in Rochester. The Sabres agreed and he started in the NHL for the last several games of his rookie season. I would not doubt if one of the provisions of Cassel resigning was a promise of the number two position, at least to start the year. The point is the team had to be ready to go on with only EJ, hence the one day Tanney signing, which all but proves it. They didn't know they were getting Cassel back at all. Or they thought they'd probably get Cassell back and signed Tanney just in case.
vincec Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Um, I thought the scout team QB got quite a lot of reps as they work all week to prepare the D for the "looks" they will get. Yeah but not with the Bills offense and not with any of the starting personnel so it's of marginal benefit for a professional QB, IMO. If this was really beneficial you'd see lots of teams playing their prize rookies on the scout team to get them more reps. EJ is way past benefiting from just playing QB. He needs practice time with the system he would play in and with the guys he would play with, ideally in a live game.
Doc Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Cut/re-sign was all about benjamins, I see that now. I just hate the impression that they gave, EJ, you did well enough to be the backup, oh wait, no you didn't. the difference between backup and 3rd string from a confidence standpoint is probably much wider than it should be... because you fail to recognize the much larger gap between 3rd and 4th string (e.g. - not playing)... I'm very disappointed that MC is the backup - but maybe the staff knows something I don't. I hate all this BS about "starts matter".... bull ****. What matters is what you can do, and what tools you have around you. It's like experience seems so overrated - that's pretty much the only dimension Cassel has over E.J. Putting them on the field, he's inferior in pretty much every other way, but experience will tell you a bit on reading a defense and knowing how to exploit that, IF you have to tools to do so (which is where I don't buy that MC is worth a packet of sugar). I really hope we never have to find out, that TT will just excel and things will play out well. My main concern with TT is just that if they are going to have him running - it just seems a vulnerable situation to put your QB in for flukes (see EJ on the sideline run vs. Browns that ends season 1)... I don't think the Bills will have/want TT to run a lot. I do envision them running him early in games just to let defenses know from the outset that that's something they'll have to account for. There was likely a less than 50-50 chance that Cassel was returning, and the deciding factor seemed to be that his wife was 8 months pregnant and he didn't want to uproot his family. So the idea that the Bills knew this was going to happen, or were not comfortable with EJ as the number two is rather absurd. In fact, when the Sabres signed Chad Ruwhedle a few years ago after his college career ended, his agent demanded that the Sabres keep him in the NHL rather than start him in Rochester. The Sabres agreed and he started in the NHL for the last several games of his rookie season. I would not doubt if one of the provisions of Cassel resigning was a promise of the number two position, at least to start the year. The point is the team had to be ready to go on with only EJ, hence the one day Tanney signing, which all but proves it. They didn't know they were getting Cassel back at all. Good point about Tanney. He was brought in in case Cassel didn't re-sign, and when he did, Tanney was released.
Beef Jerky Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Good point about Tanney. He was brought in in case Cassel didn't re-sign, and when he did, Tanney was released. I thought he was brought in to do trick shots for a day.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Or they thought they'd probably get Cassell back and signed Tanney just in case. Whether they "thought" they could or would is immaterial. I bet anything they really didn't know and didn't count on it. There are 31 other teams out there and very few of them have a good backup QB. They had to up their offer as it is to get him from Houston and he even said the big factor was his wife. So you know they didn't know for any certainty. You would have been able to get an Alex Tanney any day. Like today for example.
FireChan Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Whether they "thought" they could or would is immaterial. I bet anything they really didn't know and didn't count on it. There are 31 other teams out there and very few of them have a good backup QB. They had to up their offer as it is to get him from Houston and he even said the big factor was his wife. So you know they didn't know for any certainty. You would have been able to get an Alex Tanney any day. Like today for example. Obviously they didn't "know." But your "less than 50-50" is pure speculation.
The Wiz Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 And what if Cassel comes in and plays like he has the past 4 years (when he was a season vet and not a rookie/2nd year player who has played minimally)? Unless you think those were an aberration and his baseline is his 2010 season, I don't know how anyone can think he's the "safe" or "cautious" choice. Beyond that he's never going to be a franchise QB, never going to improve, and he won't be here next year. If TT can't do it, for whatever reason, go with EJ, see what he has/if he improves, and then make a determination next year whether to draft a guy early or stick with him and/or TT. Cassel is the safer choice off the bench and is a better mentor that EJ would be is the point. If he has to come into a game and win the game, I don't think he can do it. If he has to come in and just ride out the game then that's his job.
Rico Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/140270-aaron-maybin/?p=2344278 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/96011-aaron-maybin/?p=1553786 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/140270-aaron-maybin/?p=2344163 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/140270-aaron-maybin/?p=2345274 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/140270-aaron-maybin/?p=2345093 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/140270-aaron-maybin/?p=2344327 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/107785-aaron-maybin-picture/?p=1749795 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/107785-aaron-maybin-picture/?p=1749784 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/107785-aaron-maybin-picture/?p=1750017 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/108668-aaron-maybin/?p=1769222 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/108668-aaron-maybin/?p=1769937 2 minutes of Googling. Some familiar quotes and names. On top of this, you predict that Maybin, who has more sacks than any player on the Bills, is going to get cut next year is ludicrous. Take your head out of your a$$. He will be in the pro bowl before Marcell Dareus.
Doc Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Cassel is the safer choice off the bench and is a better mentor that EJ would be is the point. If he has to come into a game and win the game, I don't think he can do it. If he has to come in and just ride out the game then that's his job. If Cassel's there to ride out a game, but EJ starts the next game, fine.
Lenigmusx Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 every time I see Chennelly's pic I think of the poster who said he looks like Kyle Williams less athletic older brother. ^^^^So true
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Obviously they didn't "know." But your "less than 50-50" is pure speculation. hence the word "likely" and 1] the fact that they actually did sign another QB to the team, combined with the fact that 2] Cassel said he really didn't know if he would be back and wasn't told he would be back, 3] there were several teams interested and 4] the Bills had to up their offer makes it pretty darn clear they didn't know at all. Edited September 10, 2015 by Kelly the Dog
FireChan Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) hence the word "likely" and 1] the fact that they actually did sign another QB to the team, combined with the fact that 2] Cassel said he really didn't know if he would be back and wasn't told he would be back, 3] there were several teams interested and 4] the Bills had to up their offer makes it pretty darn clear they didn't know at all. Why is it likely? Just because something is possible doesn't mean its likely. Again, of course they didn't know. But they resigned him. So I'm gonna say they thought it was likely that he would resign. Edited September 10, 2015 by FireChan
GG Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 This is an excellent example of how stats belie what's actually happening on the field. People never even saw him play for the Jets, but they heard he tallied 6 sacks, and proceeded to freak out. I saw those sacks. They were all the product of scheming and/or coverage, and any warm-bodied 2nd string LB could have done the same. No, some of us saw the Jets games and knew that his sacks were mostly flukes.
dave mcbride Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 No, some of us saw the Jets games and knew that his sacks were mostly flukes. I remember a spate of vulture sacks.
GG Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Good point about Tanney. He was brought in in case Cassel didn't re-sign, and when he did, Tanney was released. I don't think they would have kept Tanney past week 1. They desperately needed a 3rd QB to run the scout team this week. If Cassel had gone to another team, Bills would have picked up someone with more NFL experience after the Colts game to be QB #3 and dropped Tanney. I'm not convinced that the coaching staff was comfortable with a TT/EJ duo at the position with an Alex Tanney on the PS for more than a week. I remember a spate of vulture sacks. Yeah, one was a classic (Bengals I think) The QB was running around the backfield for ten seconds and finally ran into Maybin who got the sack.
ganesh Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Really? In their last 14 starts (also, EJ's FIRST 14 starts), Manuel's record is 6-8 (including a loss in the Cleveland game that he left the field leading) and Cassel's is 4-10. It's pretty amazing to me that people for whatever reason hold this opinion. Also, scroll to the bottom of this page, and let me know how you feel about Cassel's game managing (I'll give you a hint, he's averaged 145 passing yards in his last 5 starts): http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00/gamelog// Let statistics or objective value not get in the way of peoples thinking here. MC is a mediocre QB.
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Why is it likely? Just because something is possible doesn't mean its likely. Again, of course they didn't know. But they resigned him. So I'm gonna say they thought it was likely that he would resign. When there are four solid reasons that we know of why it very well may not have happened, I would bet anything they didn't at all think it was likely let alone very likely. It was a calculated bet they won. But just listening to Cassel's press conference should tell you for sure that it was nothing close to a given. He wasn't told anything, they had NO IDEA what his mindset was since they didn't talk to him about it, he got a bunch of offers, he got a better offer from the Texans than the Bills until the Bills upped it, and his final reason was likely something no one considered except him, his wife's pregnancy. If you want to take all of that as the Bills were sure or quite sure they were going to resign him, go ahead.
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