BreezeMafia Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Both Buddy Nix and Whaley share some credit for the current roster. Murph has a pretty good article just up on BuffaloBills.com: http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-Bills-roster/555c801b-4682-41fa-98e7-f94e43652dc4 He points out that 32 of the 52 guys on the current roster were added on Whaley's watch, including 10 of the 13 draft picks. Nix inherited a totally wet mess - horrible talent, blown draft choices in the early rounds, no established QB, a crappy scouting staff. He was National Scout in 2009 when we drafted Maybin in the 1st round and deserves question as to how much input he had in that choice. There were also questionable decisions - bringing in Shawne Merriman and keeping him around for years, for example. The overall philosophy seemed to be giving players multple years to develop if they were injured (Easley, Troup, etc) and doing very little wheeling and dealing (trades, draft moves). Arguably the biggest gaffe of Nix' tenure was the (in hindsight) premature contract extension to Ryan Fitzpatrick and the failure to draft a QB until 2013. A number of the biggest stars still on the Bills roster were added under Nix's watch (see below). The unknown question is how much input and influence Whaley had between his arrival in Feb 2010 and becoming GM in 2013 after the draft. The Sheppard for Hughes trade made right before Whaley took over was probably a Whaley move, but was EJM Whaley's guy? Nix's? Both? It's also a good question how much the respective coaches (Gailey, Marrone, now Ryan) influenced the choice of players. My guess is that for the high-profile guys (McCoy, Clay, the QBs etc) probably a lot of influence, for the lunchpail guys not so much. Change of ownership (a more free spending culture) also has an influence. My bottom line is that if the Bills win big, both Nix and Whaley deserve credit. The roster was much improved when Nix left than when he arrived, and IMO it's taken another big step under Whaley. Two big changes under Whaley seem to be much greater willingness to trade, and much less interest in keeping players around if they're not healthy (Merriman vs Chris Williams) or are considered to cost more than their value (Byrd, Spiller, FredEx, Cassel). It's more heartless and harder-headed, and I think unfortunately that's the needed mentality. Notable acquisitions under Nix 2010 (Whaley hired as assistant GM in Feb 2010) Eric Wood Carrington (Backup) Easley (ST, backup WR) Kraig Urbik (FA) 2011 (Modrak fired right after draft) Dareus Aaron Williams 2012 Gilmore Glenn Bradham Brooks Mario Williams (signed as FA) Chris Hogan (PS fall 2012) 2013 (Whaley took over as GM right after draft) EJ Manuel (backup QB) Robert Woods Marquise Goodwin Duke Williams Chris Gragg (backup TE) Nickell Robey (UDFA) Jerry Hughes (trade) Manny Lawson (FA signing) Corbin Bryant (FA after 2012 season) Notable acquisitions under Whaley, still on the roster: 2013 Mario Butler (PS in Nov) Stefan Charles (PS in Nov) 2014 Sammy Watkins Kouandjio (backup OT) Preston Brown Randall Johnson (backup) Seantrel Henderson Bryce Brown (trade) Anthony Dixon (FA signing) Marqueis Gray (FA signing) Marcus Thigpen (FA signing) Corey Graham (FA signing) Bacarri Rambo (FA Fall 2014) 2015 Ron Darby John Miller Karlos Williams Tony Steward Nick O'Leary Tyrod Taylor (FA signing) Charles Clay (FA signing) Jerome Felton (FA signing) Percy Harvin (FA signing) Shady McCoy (trade) Ritchie Incognito (FA signing) AJ Tarpley (FA signing) Jerome Felton (FA signing) Matthew Mulligan (FA signing) Gabe Ikard (FA signing) Eric Wood was the 2nd of 2 1st 2009 1st round picks, the other - Aaron Maybin. If you remember, that's the year he suffered the very ugly leg break vs Jax.
negativo Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Sullivan's 'Risky Business' column on Whaley this morning was spot on. I would imagine most Bills fans (not on TBD) share his sentiments.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Sullivan's 'Risky Business' column on Whaley this morning was spot on. I would imagine most Bills fans (not on TBD) share his sentiments. Sullivan spot on?! Your imagination is proving to be more and more vivid with each post.
PO16FFS Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Marrone was so happy with getting Watkins in the 2014 draft that he stormed out of the room and he never had any arguments with Whaley on player personnel. Whaley drafted the Big Offensive linemen they were looking for. in Richarson, Kujo and Henderson
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 I have just read Sullivan's latest piece on Whaley being a gambler which ends "what if the locker room explodes? What if the Bills finish below .500?" It is the biggest load of nonsense I hve ever read. If a team's locker room "explodes" and a team has a losing record, especially when that is a step back from the year before, the GM and the coach are always on the hotseat. Whaley cutting Fred and Cassel makes no difference to that at all. ROTFL! I read it too, against my better judgement as I suspected from the headline it was a Sully piece (I wish SDS would buy-in to the suggestion of somehow tagging Sully articles so some of us could "see and avoid"). My favorite part was his description of the Bills as a "young, fragile squad". I dunno how the youth compares around the league, but "fragile?" Seriously, Sully? As far as youth, here's how it breaks down: Vested vet with >= 4 years 26 3 years 11 2 years 9 Rookie 6 That doesn't strike me, actually, as particularly young. And I'm pretty sure that any football player worth his paycheck would barf into his socks (better yet, Sully's socks)22 at the thought of describing himself as "fragile". I hope the Bills will consider piping a little Bachman Turner Overdrive: NOT FRAGILE into the locker room and stadium, just for Sully. Memo to Sully: Goodwin is fragile. Harvin may be fragile. Two fragile extremely fast-twitch WR does not a fragile 53 man roster make. Maybe we could tag Sully articles linked on TBD with Yolo's "Chicken Little" avatar? "But it’s a fragile construct. What if the running backs falter, or the locker room implodes?" LOL. Memo to Sully: the running backs faltered big-time last year. And the term "Bickering Bills" - remember the team it described - and its talent level? The rest of it is just rehash - Whaley is going into the season without a "big money" franchilse QB (what were his options? and would keeping a $4M 3rd string really change that?), The Bills should have cut Dareus last year like Sully said but since they didn't, they should have given him a new contract (before he showed he'd straighten up). Cutting Cassel and Jackson is all about Whaley keeping "his guys" but wait, in this salary-cap age signing and keeping Big Money stars requires a balancing act of cutting larger-money lunch-pail veterans and money had a lot to do with it. Make up your mind, which is it? I for one, am sick of the years where the Bills kept a locker room full of guys with "diminished skills but vital leadership" sprinkled with a few "PR" moves like signing Terrell Owens and then not being able to re-sign our draftees who developed well. It's time to try something different, and at least I can see the logic in what the Bills are trying. Marrone was so happy with getting Watkins in the 2014 draft that he stormed out of the room and he never had any arguments with Whaley on player personnel. That was one media report but didn't Wawrow, who had a ringside seat, say that his "storming" was not readily apparent?
26CornerBlitz Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Whaley drafted the Big Offensive linemen they were looking for. in Richarson, Kujo and Henderson When shouldn't a GM scout and draft players that potentially fit a coaching staff's system?
jester43 Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 The kneejerk management defenders on this site will point to his successes, and there have been some- though the "success" bar is set really low when you are the Bills GM. I can look handsome hanging in certain circles (pits at a stock car track, chess tournament, TBD tailgate), but does that does not necessarily make me good looking. However, his two biggest moves were, at best, dubious: EJ and Watkins. When I hear him speak I'm not sure even he knows what's going to come out. He's like the opposite of Rex. That does not make me confident at all...he sounds like a teacher who never plans lessons...just wings it. I won't trust him until we start wining.
26CornerBlitz Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 The kneejerk management defenders on this site will point to his successes, and there have been some- though the "success" bar is set really low when you are the Bills GM. I can look handsome hanging in certain circles (pits at a stock car track, chess tournament, TBD tailgate), but does that does not necessarily make me good looking. However, his two biggest moves were, at best, dubious: EJ and Watkins. When I hear him speak I'm not sure even he knows what's going to come out. He's like the opposite of Rex. That does not make me confident at all...he sounds like a teacher who never plans lessons...just wings it. I won't trust him until we start wining. There's nothing knee jerk about the "defense" of Whaley. The talent level of the roster has obviously increased with him at the helm via the draft, trades, and free agency. The body of evidence is there, but of course it still has to translate on the field with a winning product.
jester43 Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) There's nothing knee jerk about the "defense" of Whaley. The talent level of the roster has obviously increased with him at the helm via the draft, trades, and free agency. The body of evidence is there, but of course it still has to translate on the field with a winning product. Again: "increasing talent" for the Bills is not that hard. I don't disagree that has happened. But FFS, we had just drafted Aaron Maybin when Whaley came here (and was sold as a prodigy to fans). We are better for sure, but he has not done anything special yet. It's sort of like talking about Robert Woods as a star receiver just because he hasn't proved he sucks yet. The bar is always low in Buffalo because the team has been so bad for so long. Edited September 7, 2015 by jester43
Solomon Grundy Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Sullivan's 'Risky Business' column on Whaley this morning was spot on. I would imagine most Bills fans (not on TBD) share his sentiments.Imagine NOT, negativo!! Matter of fact, you should change your screen name to "Jerry Sullivan". Speaking of, I see he's back to presenting his "downer" form of journalism. He should also do more fact checking before publishing his Fox News type of rhetoric. First, EJ Manuel was, arguably, the best QB in game situation this preseason. And according to multiple reports was the best QB in OTAs/ TC. Secondly, the attack on Doug Whaley's character and style of managing needs to stop. Doug Whaley is the most approachable GM the Bills have had since John Butler, to me. He's always willing to discuss football with you without tipping his hand. His "wheeling and dealing" style of managing has produced the best roster the organization has had since the SB era. This includes the coaching staff as well. Our QB situation is better than many want to give credit for. Tyrod Taylor, though an unknown, gives us all a feeling of excitement we haven't had since Bledsoe was traded for. And EJ Manuel gives us a sense of optimism after watching his performances this summer. Yes, the former 1st rd pick is lurking in the wings ready to blurt out a quote from The Joker, "wait til they get a load of me"!! I'm excited about the season, the direction of the franchise thanks in large part to our "rogue" GM. Get er dun Mr Whaley!! GO BILLS for we are here to cheer for you!! Again: "increasing talent" for the Bills is not that hard. I don't disagree that has happened. But FFS, we had just drafted Aaron Maybin when Whaley came here (and was sold as a prodigy to fans). We are better for sure, but he has not done anything special yet. It's sort of like talking about Robert Woods as a star receiver just because he hasn't proved he sucks yet. The bar is always low in Buffalo because the team has been so bad for so long. Doug Whaley had NOTHING to do with Aaron Maybin!! Again, Fox News!! Edited September 7, 2015 by the skycap
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 It's FAUX News guys you could at least get it right lol
Nihilarian Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 But to be fair... Dont you think that those decisions were made by Marrone, your allusions to the Oline. Marrone thought he could switch everyone around. Marrone tells Whaley what he needs and he goes and gets it. I feel like this post is more an indictment on the coaches than the GM. Well, look at the players the guy went and got! 2013 / 2014 off seasons! The GM makes the player decisions for the roster, and the coach uses the best players out of those on the roster. Clearly Whaley thought Colin Brown was an adequate replacement for Andy Levitre, and Doug Legursky was an adequate backup. Whaley was the one who brought in Chris Williams, and signed him for 5 mill. Those three complete bums weren't even worthy of a roster spot much less being thought of as a starter. It was Whaley who drafted Kujo with a #2 pick, and Cyril Richardson with #5 pick, and the 7th rounder turned out to be the best of that batch. Which is not saying much because Henderson was one of the worst RT's in the league last year. So far this year it looks like Whaley might have finally gotten it right with OG Miller in the 3rd, and Incognito looks to be one of Rex's ideas. Anyway, I still agree with a lot of what JahnyC had to say. I am still having trouble figuring out whether we should be giving Whaley credit or criticism for the period before he became GM. If you look at the current roster, many of the top players were drafted or signed as free agents by Nix, but Nix also made some bad mistakes (TJ Graham). I think that Nix made the call on EJ, not Whaley, although Whaley seemed to strongly support the pick. Nix seems to get no love here, but his draft picks and signings form the core of the team. If we focus on Whaley's two years as GM, he has made some bad trades, including the trades for Williams, Brown, and Cassel. Does he get credit for trading for Hughes? Who knows, but it did not happen during his tenure as GM. I also believe that he overpaid significantly for Watkins and his drafting has been very hit or miss. Seems like big misses on CK, Richardson and Cockrell, and some very good picks with P. Brown and Henderson. Free agency has been a mixed bag for Whaley. He failed to adequately address the guard situation last year, which hurt, but he also signed Cory Graham, who played very well last season. Overall, I think it is way too early to assess Whaley. Some good things and some not so good things. I personally think many here are overrating what he has done, but we will see in the coming years. Should Tyrod Taylor play well this season and help lead the team to the playoffs. Well then everything posted negative here will long be forgotten, along with the team dumping Freddy. Winning is everything, and finding that franchise QB is single the most important part of being an NFL GM.
jester43 Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Doug Whaley had NOTHING to do with Aaron Maybin!! Again, Fox News!! Oh my gosh are you for real? I'm sorry... i don't read your posts enough to know whether you're trolling. I know Maybin was here a year before Whaley...my point is when that guy is the previous regime's pick at 11, it's not very hard to upgrade talent when you take over. Please tell me you're trolling.
hondo in seattle Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Overall, this squad is far better than the squad he took over. Thinking back a few years to the team Dick Jauron had... As much crap as fans like to give him about "It's hard to win in the NFL" - it was very hard with that roster. Thinking back to Chan Gailey... I remember being amazed for a while how he was able to generate some offense with very little talent. The team we're fielding now - Whaley's team - is far better. I don't blame Whaley for EJ because you have to gamble on QBs now and then, and EJ did look like a NFL QB this preseason. Like many, I was/am upset with Whaley for the way he mishandled Fred. But, like many, I see the logic. We had a lot of money tied in backups (MC, Fred) when we're being challenged to resign starters (Marcel, for instance). Edited September 7, 2015 by hondo in seattle
jahnyc Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Kind of interesting that the Pegulas were ready to put Polian at the top of the front office. Not sure whether this was a reflection on Whaley's performance up until that point, but having gone through the sales process, they must have identified some matters that needed to be addressed with operations of the team and the front office.
Nihilarian Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) There's nothing knee jerk about the "defense" of Whaley. The talent level of the roster has obviously increased with him at the helm via the draft, trades, and free agency. The body of evidence is there, but of course it still has to translate on the field with a winning product. Just the jump from 6-10 to 9-7 winning record was huge. The two biggest factors in last years winning record were the defense run by Jim Schwartz, and QB Kyle Orton. But both the DC & QB are now gone. I have friends that like other teams, and they are literally laughing at me for my talking about the Bills having a shot to make the playoffs this year. Mostly because they think its a joke the Bills are now starting a former 6th round pick backup QB from some other team. Suuuurrrreee he is another Russel Wilson. Man I'm so hoping the Bills make the playoffs this year so I can tell those friends to stick it in their...ear! Edited September 7, 2015 by Nihilarian
26CornerBlitz Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Just the jump from 6-10 to 9-7 winning record was huge. The two biggest factors in last years winning record were the defense run by Jim Schwartz, and QB Kyle Orton. But the DC & QB both are now gone. I have friends that like other teams, and they are literally laughing at me for my talking about the Bills having a shot to make the playoffs this year. Mostly because they think its a joke the Bills are now starting a former 6th round pick backup QB from some other team. Suuuurrrreee he is another Russel Wilson. Man I'm so hoping the Bills make the playoffs this year so I can tell those friends to stick it in their...ear! Orton??? He was FN terrible after a decent beginning. You gotta be kidding with trying to attribute last season's decency to Kyle "kitty slide" Orton.
TC in St. Louis Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 I voted yes. He's done a lot of work to make this team relevant. Cutting Freddie was a tough decision, but he is 34 and his leadership did not get us to the playoffs. Not blaming Freddie, but if you're going to hang a leader tag on him, you also need to look at the results. I didn't like his bridge burning tweet either. I think dumping Cassel was a great move. He is boring. Having him on the team for months may have inspired the other two to better results. We shall see. Can't wait till Sunday. I'm looking forward to witnessing what sort of chaos the defense presents to Andrew Luck. This should be fun.
GunnerBill Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Sullivan's 'Risky Business' column on Whaley this morning was spot on. I would imagine most Bills fans (not on TBD) share his sentiments. Of course it is spot on - it makes a completely obvious point that if the locker room explodes and the team does worse than last year the GM will be on the hotseat. I mean thank heavens old Jerry pointed that out because without his insight I would never have been able to make that leap of faith. It is a nonsense article that does a lot of worse case scenario speculating and then says "and if all that happened the GM might get canned." I mean kudos Jerry. Seriously. I have worked as a journalist I know how hard it is to come up with fresh and original content but this was a particularly pathetic effort. Edited September 7, 2015 by GunnerBill
Steve Billieve Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 When shouldn't a GM scout and draft players that potentially fit a coaching staff's system? Is this a trick question? When your coach is Doug Moron!
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