Max Fischer Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) I think the point is that she's not. Story says she grew up speaking Spanish and English, living in Miami, Columbia and Spain. where do you live?I've lived in IL, DE, NY, CT, PA and MD. Edited September 7, 2015 by Max Fischer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) I think the point is that she's not. Who's saying that it matter's? My Mexican sister-in-law's name, I pronounce it the way they say it in Spanish. You know why? Because that is her name. Why do people think it should be anglicized? It is amazing how many people simply don't want to be courteous and call people by how the name they were born w/should sound. I am w/Max Fischer on this. Of course, one doesn't have to get carried away with an over-the-top inflection. I work with a guy... His name is Jorge... His name is Hor-hay... Not George. Why is this so difficult people? I know when people say sounds, they think how it is spelled and sound it out from there. Maybe some people simply can't process the native language. Edited September 7, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Story says she grew up speaking Spanish and English, living in Miami, Columbia and Spain. Story also says she's pronouncing local place names with a foreign pronunciation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Story also says she's pronouncing local place names with a foreign pronunciation. But... Shouldn't the local places really have been pronounced "right" in the first place. Like Cairo, Illinois... It is not Kay-ro... This announcer is probably in a hick, jerk-water area... You can't really fault her? It is amazing how they butcher places. I was floored when I heard San Jose, Illinois as: San Josie. WTF! Bourbonnais, Illinois gets: Burr-bone-is... What is wrong with some people. Thank God that is not the official sounding name! Oh... And it is Phoenix, so it is jerk-water. Isn't all of AZ? ;-) ;-) Also: Now, I can see spelling it anglicized in order to get people to pronounce the word in it's native way. Like: Sault Ste. Marie area will get spelled The Soo. That's okay because it gets people not native to French to pronounce it the right way. Edited September 7, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Story also says she's pronouncing local place names with a foreign pronunciation. Yup, why use Spanish pronunciation for Spanish names like Casa Grande? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Yup, why use Spanish pronunciation for Spanish names like Casa Grande? It's in Arizona, not Catalonia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 In 4th grade, we had an assignment translating our essay into Spanish. It included having to change our name on the top to it's Spanish equivalent. ie John=Juan, Mary=Maria, George=Jorge. I didn't understand, because I've been to Spanish-speaking countries and my name never changed, and told her so. She didn't agree with me and deducted points. Thinking back on it now, I think she was probably racist against white people. (We also said the pledge of Allegiance in Spanish...) Is it pronounced Ree-yo Grand, or RRRi-oh Grun-deh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Who's saying that it matter's? My Mexican sister-in-law's name, I pronounce it the way they say it in Spanish. You know why? Because that is her name. Why do people think it should be anglicized? It is amazing how many people simply don't want to be courteous and call people by how the name they were born w/should sound. I am w/Max Fischer on this. Of course, one doesn't have to get carried away with an over-the-top inflection. I work with a guy... His name is Jorge... His name is Hor-hay... Not George. Why is this so difficult people? I know when people say sounds, they think how it is spelled and sound it out from there. Maybe some people simply can't process the native language. When you meet an Indian guy with a name like Nesir Chaudry or Sanjiv Patel, do you pronounce it like you're Abo on the Simpsons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) When you meet an Indian guy with a name like Nesir Chaudry or Sanjiv Patel, do you pronounce it like you're Abo on the Simpsons?You miss the point or ignore it completely. If the man's name is Patel pronounced "Pah-tell" that how you pronounce it, even if everyone you know says, "Pay-toll." You don't need to change your accent, just say the guy's name correctly or best you can, it's not that hard. I know many people with difficult names from India, Pakistan, Africa, etc, but it would be an insult to pronounce their name incorrectly just because it's said different in the U.S. (e.g., "JOE-hand-son" vs "YO-Hahn-son"). If you're unsure or have trouble, ask them for a phonetic spelling until you get it right. Native (and nearly native) speakers can easily sound out a word (I can't roll my "Rs"), but why should we expect tehm to change their accent to speak a fluent language? I'm sure many would get upset if Spanish speakers told us we shouldn't speak English words with an English/American accent in a Spanish country. Morover, in this case, the woman SPEAKS Spanish fluently, as well as someone who only spoke Spanish. She's not changing her accent, she's speaking Spanish. Edited September 7, 2015 by Max Fischer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 You miss the point or ignore it completely. If the man's name is Patel pronounced "Pah-tell" that how you pronounce it, even if everyone you know says, "Pay-toll." You don't need to change your accent, just say the guy's name correctly or best you can, it's not that hard. I know many people with difficult names from India, Pakistan, Africa, etc, but it would be an insult to pronounce their name incorrectly just because it's said different in the U.S. (e.g., "JOE-hand-son" vs "YO-Hahn-son"). If you're unsure or have trouble, ask them for a phonetic spelling until you get it right. Native (and nearly native) speakers can easily sound out a word (I can't roll my "Rs"), but why should we expect tehm to change their accent to speak a fluent language? I'm sure many would get upset if Spanish speakers told us we shouldn't speak English words with an English/American accent in a Spanish country. Morover, in this case, the woman SPEAKS Spanish fluently, as well as someone who only spoke Spanish. She's not changing her accent, she's speaking Spanish. Actually, it's you who didn't get it, but thanks for clarifying. No one's suggesting you pronounce Juan with a hard J, but if you normally speak with an American accent but say Juan Hernandez like you were born and raised in the slums of Tiajuana then you might sound pretentious and absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 I want to hear her say Washington Redskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 And would ya? Article Photo That's a !@#$ing man. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 Actually, it's you who didn't get it, but thanks for clarifying. No one's suggesting you pronounce Juan with a hard J, but if you normally speak with an American accent but say Juan Hernandez like you were born and raised in the slums of Tiajuana then you might sound pretentious and absurd. If you don't speak the language fluently like a native you will sound pretentious. But point is, she does, and and why it's ridiculous that people would get upset about how she pronounces each name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 When you meet an Indian guy with a name like Nesir Chaudry or Sanjiv Patel, do you pronounce it like you're Abo on the Simpsons? "Of course, one doesn't have to get carried away with an over-the-top inflection." I think you missed this part of my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 You miss the point or ignore it completely. If the man's name is Patel pronounced "Pah-tell" that how you pronounce it, even if everyone you know says, "Pay-toll." You don't need to change your accent, just say the guy's name correctly or best you can, it's not that hard. I know many people with difficult names from India, Pakistan, Africa, etc, but it would be an insult to pronounce their name incorrectly just because it's said different in the U.S. (e.g., "JOE-hand-son" vs "YO-Hahn-son"). If you're unsure or have trouble, ask them for a phonetic spelling until you get it right. Native (and nearly native) speakers can easily sound out a word (I can't roll my "Rs"), but why should we expect tehm to change their accent to speak a fluent language? I'm sure many would get upset if Spanish speakers told us we shouldn't speak English words with an English/American accent in a Spanish country. Morover, in this case, the woman SPEAKS Spanish fluently, as well as someone who only spoke Spanish. She's not changing her accent, she's speaking Spanish. Exactly. My sister-in-law is: Edith. I don't say: Ee-Dith. I say: A-Deet. Why is that so hard. I know how her name was pronounced @ birth and I say it that way. It doesn't even cross my mind. I think... IMO... Most people associate the spelling w/pronounciation. I understand people have a very hard time with that and the blurt the wrong thing right out. They are just too lazy to stop and think for a second and get it right. Bottom line, they are too lazy and refuse to switch gears. In my sister-in-laws case, they anglicize Edith. In my co-worker's case, they pronounce the "J" in Jorge the English way... BECAUSE that is what they see in their mind. I catch myself all the time when I read: Illinois... I want to say Ill-i-noise. I have to, till this day, press the "clutch" between how the word is spelled and how it should be said. BTW, Illinois is the most mispronounced state in The Union. Just my two cents. People simply to not want to engage the clutch between spelling (as read in their native language) and proper pronounciation. It's like having a whole set of gears out there. It's a sense of arrogance, people simply want to slam shift the word into their native tongue. IMO, this happens more in American culture. And to the poster above who was critical of their Spanish teacher... It wasn't a lessen on arrogance about speaking Spanish... That is getting the pupils to write their name in Spanish. It was a lesson to teach one how to use that clutch between spelling and pronounciation. My brotheri-in-law goes to Mexico and they pronounce his name the Anglicized way... Nobody ever pronounces it the Spanish way. In a reverse situation, you now it would be different. There is a guy @ work that simply refuses to call our co-worker: Hor-Hay... Now, Jorge really doesn't mind, because he ran into it his whole life... But the douchebag co-worker sometimes gets me to forget to use "the clutch!" /wallbash If you don't speak the language fluently like a native you will sound pretentious. But point is, she does, and and why it's ridiculous that people would get upset about how she pronounces each name. BINGO! People are insecure. That's why they get upset. Side note: A lot of people can't roll their tongues/r's. That's one example that makes some feel insecure. They simply can't pronounce it because they weren't born w/the skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 And to the poster above who was critical of their Spanish teacher... It wasn't a lessen on arrogance about speaking Spanish... That is getting the pupils to write their name in Spanish. It was a lesson to teach one how to use that clutch between spelling and pronounciation. My brotheri-in-law goes to Mexico and they pronounce his name the Anglicized way... Nobody ever pronounces it the Spanish way. In a reverse situation, you now it would be different. There is a guy @ work that simply refuses to call our co-worker: Hor-Hay... Now, Jorge really doesn't mind, because he ran into it his whole life... But the douchebag co-worker sometimes gets me to forget to use "the clutch!" /wallbash It was 4th grade, she wasn't a "Spanish" teacher. Just a regular teacher that taught all the subjects. You say a person's name the way that person wants you to say it. There is no other version. Telling kids to learn their "spanish" name is like asking what their "porn star" name is... it only teaches you that people will try to change you to suit their worldview. It's the same with the reporter. She needs to say the name the way the locals do because that is how it evolved. Trying to say that she's using the original pronunciation is a ridiculous excuse since language changes constantly. She might as well add a few clicks and grunts in there from our African ancestors if she wants to go that route. The more likely reason is that she in incapable of saying it properly so she falls back on her "cultural" crutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) FWIW... There really is no "American" way. When it comes to language in The US, it can always change. Sure our base is English, but that isn't and should never be set in stone. We are like the Mets & Jets fans out there, even outnumbered (by the other languages) on our home turf (Jets/Mets fans have no plurality of fans even in their home counties). The point is: We as Americans borrow from everybody! It's the least we can do is attempt to pronounce things the proper way. With that note... Good thing we kicked (bought) the French out of the midwest because they would cringe @ how we pronounce: Marseilles and Versailles... LoL I can always tell an out of area (and educated) Coastie on the marine band radio @ work. They pronounce those two places the right and proper way! LoL... Even I have a hard time not using the hick versons of those places! :-O Edited September 7, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) It was 4th grade, she wasn't a "Spanish" teacher. Just a regular teacher that taught all the subjects. You say a person's name the way that person wants you to say it. There is no other version. Telling kids to learn their "spanish" name is like asking what their "porn star" name is... it only teaches you that people will try to change you to suit their worldview. It's the same with the reporter. She needs to say the name the way the locals do because that is how it evolved. Trying to say that she's using the original pronunciation is a ridiculous excuse since language changes constantly. She might as well add a few clicks and grunts in there from our African ancestors if she wants to go that route. The more likely reason is that she in incapable of saying it properly so she falls back on her "cultural" crutch. Sorry. No the teacher shouldn't. Not in grade 4 and in class. What you are saying is revisionist. It had nothing to do w/culture. She was trying to get you to engage that "clutch." @ an early age, it is easier to learn. I agree, she should have conveyed the point of the lesson. The point of the exercise was NOT to change your name. To think she was changing your name is just foolish... But then again, children are in grade 4! If your name is John... When you left that room, it would still be John in any place on the planet. The same would apply to Juan when he left his English class in Mexico... He would be called: Juan. Not like Jorge coming to work w/us and people calling him George! Just because they are too lazy or they think saying: wHORe-Hay is too funny... Grow up! It was a class exercise to teach you to engage the clutch not change your name! Edited September 7, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Also... There is an African-American guy @ work that will pronounce: Jorge... Or-Ray. That's okay! It's better than: George! His name is NOT pronounced: George! Funniest thing... I got in an discussion (argument if you wish) w/my boss when the above started working w/us. My boss insisted his name is: George. LoL... I said: "Then do you call his middle name: Henry?" My boss just stared @ me (not really knowing his middle name besides the first letter) and said: "No! His name begins with an "E!", looking totally confused. I wanted to: ROTFLMAO! I just silently walked away... Freaking Plebeians! Edited September 7, 2015 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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