Perhaps OT? Timmy Graham's Twitter Pillow Fight

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

I seriously don't give a rat's ass what most people do. Most people are morons--well maybe not most, but a surprisingly large percentage. And Stephan A and Skip are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to professional journalism. But from what I know they yell at each other, on air, on a show designed for just that. The worst kind of television (IMO) but a show nonetheless. Do either engage in combative exchanges with their viewers/readers? Truthfully, I don't know. But as Curt Schilling found out, this s#it can come hot and fast, and take a guy down. Best to be a bit careful.

 

And we can disagree on whether Timmy was wrong to post the "rogue" story the way he did (he was). But I assume he is wrong, on occasion. We all are--even you, though I'm not sure you admit it, either, from what I see here. Gibbs is wrong about one thing. Apologizing is not a sign of weakness. Admitting you were wrong, and apologizing, is a sign of strength--that is, if you mean it.

 

 

The "mistake" conversation was directed at me, I think.

 

Just because I am right about the Bills far too often for my own liking doesn't mean I don't I admit when I am wrong. Done it many times here.

 

As for the difference between Graham and Schilling......Schilling actually is a raging hothead so he is prone to going off the rails. As Kelly has said in this thread.....Graham is mostly just messing with the loud mouthed, irrational types.

[DanInUticaTampa]

I don't think that it has been established that the word "rogue" was a direct quote or whether it was a (poorly?) chosen word by TG.

 

According to TG, that is the word that 2 separate sources used to describe it. So if that is true (I don't take TG to be an outright liar), he did is job right. He reported it using 2 seperate sources, which is fairly responsible because 1 source could make a mistake, but 2 is a lot less unlikely. A lot of these twitter reports go on a lot less. So he did well, so this is really on his sources.

 

What bothers me is TG even came out later saying that Pegula knew ahead of time that Fred was getting cut.... and that is the opposite of Whaley going rogue. So instead of saying the sources used poor choice of words or something, he defended it in the most convoluted way. He was arguing the definition of "rogue" with people on twitter trying to explain that even though Whaley let most people know what was happening, there were "some" people that did not know, therefore he went rogue. And most people would look at that and think that rogue is very misleading in that case. And I just cannot bring myself to side with graham.

 

And then him attacking Coller with this school yard shouting match was totally weak.

[Lurker]

 

 

. Most people are morons--

Ergo, the 'ignore user' feature.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

What Tim does, or does not do, has nothing to do with "winning games". But he has a job and it comes with professional responsibilities. Nothing in your last post has anything to do with this discussion.

 

 

"Do you think TG has any responsibility whatsoever to not post things that he knows will cause controversy and create an untrue nationwide impression on the Bills and its front office just because he can, and it's technically not a lie?"

 

Not sure what you are talking about but this is what I was responding too.

 

And the answer is still NO.

 

[Dibs]

 

According to TG, that is the word that 2 separate sources used to describe it. So if that is true (I don't take TG to be an outright liar), he did is job right. He reported it using 2 seperate sources, which is fairly responsible because 1 source could make a mistake, but 2 is a lot less unlikely. A lot of these twitter reports go on a lot less. So he did well, so this is really on his sources.

...

Unless the word "Rogue" has become a bit of a fad word around Bills HQ it seems quite strange to me that 2 seperate sources would use it....particularly since it is being used outside of its standard definition. I suppose it could also be that Whaley has a group of people at OBD that dislike him and gossip with each other, and as consequence end up using the same adjective.

[The Dean]

 

 

"Do you think TG has any responsibility whatsoever to not post things that he knows will cause controversy and create an untrue nationwide impression on the Bills and its front office just because he can, and it's technically not a lie?"

 

Not sure what you are talking about but this is what I was responding too.

 

And the answer is still NO.

 

 

 

But that has nothing to do with the Bills winning football games, which was your response.

 

You might explain a bit why you think a journalist has absolutely no responsibility for knowingly reporting controversial content--even though it may not be true. A journalist's job is to consider that responsibility seriously. To be cavalier with the truth, and not care about the consequences, really isn't a trivial matter. Not as important as a team winning football games, of course , but serious nonetheless.

Edited September 6, 2015 by The Dean

[BADOLBILZ]

 

According to TG, that is the word that 2 separate sources used to describe it. So if that is true (I don't take TG to be an outright liar), he did is job right. He reported it using 2 seperate sources, which is fairly responsible because 1 source could make a mistake, but 2 is a lot less unlikely. A lot of these twitter reports go on a lot less. So he did well, so this is really on his sources.

 

What bothers me is TG even came out later saying that Pegula knew ahead of time that Fred was getting cut.... and that is the opposite of Whaley going rogue. So instead of saying the sources used poor choice of words or something, he defended it in the most convoluted way. He was arguing the definition of "rogue" with people on twitter trying to explain that even though Whaley let most people know what was happening, there were "some" people that did not know, therefore he went rogue. And most people would look at that and think that rogue is very misleading in that case. And I just cannot bring myself to side with graham.

 

And then him attacking Coller with this school yard shouting match was totally weak.

 

 

 

"Hoops" Coller appears to have lied about his college basketball experience.......which is actually a very funny and interesting story!

 

I like how you guys want Graham to dissect his work down and apologize for the part of it that offended you. That's precious.

[DanInUticaTampa]

Unless the word "Rogue" has become a bit of a fad word around Bills HQ it seems quite strange to me that 2 seperate sources would use it....particularly since it is being used outside of its standard definition. I suppose it could also be that Whaley has a group of people at OBD that dislike him and gossip with each other, and as consequence end up using the same adjective.

 

My thinking is that there is someone(s) that are not whaley fans and they exaggerated the situation to make Whaley look bad in public. There really seems to be a lot of info about the bills getting leaked lately. I think the organization is becoming more aware of it, and I am sure they are going to tighten the communication at the very top

 

Someone on twitter jokes that Kromer was one of the leaks just because of his reputation haha.

[The Dean]

 

My thinking is that there is someone(s) that are not whaley fans and they exaggerated the situation to make Whaley look bad in public. There really seems to be a lot of info about the bills getting leaked lately. I think the organization is becoming more aware of it, and I am sure they are going to tighten the communication at the very top

 

Someone on twitter jokes that Kromer was one of the leaks just because of his reputation haha.

 

 

It certainly occurred to me. The guy has a history of blabbing to the press. I wouldn't accuse him, but he'd be a guy I would question.

[DanInUticaTampa]

 

 

 

"Hoops" Coller appears to have lied about his college basketball experience.......which is actually a very funny and interesting story!

 

I like how you guys want Graham to dissect his work down and apologize for the part of it that offended you. That's precious.

 

Coller lying or not lying about playing college basketball is something completly funny. It is hilarious that it even came up in discussion. And the more that came out on it, the more it looked like Coller did play college basketball (and received college credit for it). So of all the things TG could pick to discredit a peer, he picks .... that.

 

And I never said I was offended or Graham should apologize. Bu thank you again for not reading my posts....

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

But that has nothing to do with the Bills winning football games, which was your response.

 

You might explain a bit why you think a journalist has absolutely no responsibility for knowingly reporting controversial content--even though it may not be true. A journalist's job is to consider that responsibility seriously. To be cavalier with the truth, and not care about the consequences, really isn't a trivial matter. Not as important as a team winning football games, of course , but serious nonetheless.

 

 

Ok well we agree that national perception has no effect on winning games, that's a start.

 

You are aware that I wasn't preaching that to you.....there are people on this forum who feel it makes a difference.

 

What does national perception do that I am missing?

 

I have already said I don't expect some great journalistic standard of clarity in this entertainment field.....but you do. Good for you.

 

You aren't going to change that opinion and taking my point about the media not mattering in terms of wins and losses and trying to ?somehow? egg me on.....that won't work......sorry.

[DanInUticaTampa]

 

 

It certainly occurred to me. The guy has a history of blabbing to the press. I wouldn't accuse him, but he'd be a guy I would question.

 

One of the things people were talking about was that a lot of the leaks did start when he returned back to camp. Though being an assistant oline coach I am not sure how much he gets told. I am sure he got a lot more when he was an OC

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Coller lying or not lying about playing college basketball is something completly funny. It is hilarious that it even came up in discussion. And the more that came out on it, the more it looked like Coller did play college basketball (and received college credit for it). So of all the things TG could pick to discredit a peer, he picks .... that.

 

And I never said I was offended or Graham should apologize. Bu thank you again for not reading my posts....

 

Ok you said you wanted Graham to come out and admit it was a poor choice of words.......essentially back down......not technically an apology, you are correct.

 

And like I said before..........unfortunately for Hoops Coller.........trying out for a team doesn't make you a member of the team.

 

Thanks again for a very funny conversation guys. I think it's a lot of bunched panties over nothing but I enjoyed the banter.

[The Dean]

 

 

Ok well we agree that national perception has no effect on winning games, that's a start.

 

You are aware that I wasn't preaching that to you.....there are people on this forum who feel it makes a difference.

 

What does national perception do that I am missing?

 

I have already said I don't expect some great journalistic standard of clarity in this entertainment field.....but you do. Good for you.

 

You aren't going to change that opinion and taking my point about the media not mattering in terms of wins and losses and trying to ?somehow? egg me on.....that won't work......sorry.

 

 

I must have missed the posts where people asserted that Timmy's posts impacted Bills wins and losses. I'm pretty sure the thread starter didn't make that assertion, and I didn't notice that implication in any other posts. But I could have missed a few.

 

It seemed to be a pretty straight forward discussion of respect for Tim Graham, based on how he responds to posters on twitter.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

No I don't.

 

National perception has nothing to do with who wins games.

 

Part of the issue we have had on this board for the past 15 years is people who blame "negativity" from fans or media for the Bills inability to succeed.

That has really nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was talking intentionally knowing a certain circumstance was going to happen that showed a member of the Bills organization in a different light than was the truth. He knew this would happen. I could give a crap about the last 15 years of the Bills and their futility. This is a new era and new owner and relatively new GM and new coach and new coordinators and new team and fresh start. And he basically, on purpose, got one of its main cogs trashed on a national level even though TG knew it wasn't really true.

I don't think that it has been established that the word "rogue" was a direct quote or whether it was a (poorly?) chosen word by TG.

I think he has said that two different sources used the quote with him, he didn't originate it.

[DanInUticaTampa]

 

Ok you said you wanted Graham to come out and admit it was a poor choice of words.......essentially back down......not technically an apology, you are correct.

 

And like I said before..........unfortunately for Hoops Coller.........trying out for a team doesn't make you a member of the team.

 

Thanks again for a very funny conversation guys. I think it's a lot of bunched panties over nothing but I enjoyed the banter.

 

Yes, admit that his sources used a bad choice of words. it was not his word, so he shouldn't apologize for that. He should have just admitted his sources used poor wording.

 

In my opinion, that is what a good journalist would do. Whether they are reporting about a Niki Minaj concert, the stock market, or a little league baseball team, I have respect for journalists that do their job the right way. If their sources make something up or report wrong, then there is a retraction by respectable journalists.

 

You think it doesn't matter because football is an entertainment topic so it doesn't matter since it isn't a serious issue, and that is fine. I personally like my journalism , sports or otherwise, to be a higher standard then what was displayed. There are plenty of journalists I have stopped following because of that. There are too many good journalists out there for me to follow someone that isn't meeting those standards.

[Kelly the Dog]

Unless the word "Rogue" has become a bit of a fad word around Bills HQ it seems quite strange to me that 2 seperate sources would use it....particularly since it is being used outside of its standard definition. I suppose it could also be that Whaley has a group of people at OBD that dislike him and gossip with each other, and as consequence end up using the same adjective.

It was because a couple people who (wrongly IMO) thought they deserved to be in the loop were not included in the loop. But DW has no responsibility to them to include them in football decisions like this.

 

Yes, admit that his sources used a bad choice of words. it was not his word, so he shouldn't apologize for that. He should have just admitted his sources used poor wording.

 

In my opinion, that is what a good journalist would do. Whether they are reporting about a Niki Minaj concert, the stock market, or a little league baseball team, I have respect for journalists that do their job the right way. If their sources make something up or report wrong, then there is a retraction by respectable journalists.

 

You think it doesn't matter because football is an entertainment topic so it doesn't matter since it isn't a serious issue, and that is fine. I personally like my journalism , sports or otherwise, to be a higher standard then what was displayed. There are plenty of journalists I have stopped following because of that. There are too many good journalists out there for me to follow someone that isn't meeting those standards.

No, what he should have done is made it clear that he wasn't talking about Pegula or Ryan or Roman.

[The Dean]

It was because a couple people who (wrongly IMO) thought they deserved to be in the loop were not included in the loop. But DW has no responsibility to them to include them in football decisions like this.

 

I have to agree with Dibs, that it seems unlikely both sources would use the term "rogue". But then again, they could have discussed what they would say to Timmy beforehand. That alone should have tipped Tim off.

 

Of course, and Dibs might not be aware of this (though he probably is--dude seems to have more info down under than most here) "going rogue" has become quite the popular term in the states the last few years. So I suppose there is a possibility both guys used the term, independently. But still, I kind of doubt it.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

I have to agree with Dibs, that it seems unlikely both sources would use the term "rogue". But then again, they could have discussed what they would say to Timmy beforehand. That alone should have tipped Tim off.

 

Of course, and Dibs might not be aware of this (though he probably is--dude seems to have more info down under than most here) "going rogue" has become quite the popular term in the states the last few years. So I suppose there is a possibility both guys used the term, independently. But still, I kind of doubt it.

I doubt it, too. I think they both talked about it together and one of them used that term when they were privately badmouthing Whaley for not including them, and then when TG was talking to them either together or independently they both used the same term because they had discussed it before. Or, when TG heard it from one and he used the term, TG mentioned it to the other and the other said, "Exactly. he went rogue." It's a common term these days in that sense because of Sarah Palin.

[DanInUticaTampa]

It was because a couple people who (wrongly IMO) thought they deserved to be in the loop were not included in the loop. But DW has no responsibility to them to include them in football decisions like this.

No, what he should have done is made it clear that he wasn't talking about Pegula or Ryan or Roman.

 

Well, he did eventually come out and Admit that Pegula knew ahead of time about fred getting released. Not sure if about ryan and roman though.