Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Fall ball is like tryouts..........but I think it should all count so I can start bragging on my college basketball exploits. As far as "irresponsible" journalism......."rogue" is a term that has a literal meaning....it also has a jagoff meaning for the people who learn the language from video games.....so it will be perceived differently by different intellects. Should Tim Graham take into account that it will throw folks like eball off the deep end? Absolutely not. It's the responsibility of the populous to learn the language not for reporters to simplify it for them. Basketball: I guess it depends upon exactly how you refer to your college basketball exploits? I don't know the details of what Coller claims re baseball. If you claim you played basketball in college, but you weren't a good player and didn't make the roster, you're being factuallly accurate, brag away. 99.5% of the population can't ball out even at that level so cred to you. If you put it on your resume that you were a 4 year starter at a DI school and you played fall ball, you're lying. If you play fall ball and you brag about your exploits, you're a tool. If someone calls you out on something you've done, and you respond by attacking some aspect of their character, that is called an "ad hominem argument" and is regarded as a type of logical fallacy and a refuge of people who really don't have an adequate response. That appears to be what Tim Graham has done in responding to Coller's questioning his tweet by attacking Coller's resume. I don't know about jagoff meanings from video games. Merriam Webster Online defines rogue as a man who is dishonest or immoral; a dishonest or worthless person; but also a mischevious person. Urban dictionary says "going rogue" is either Someone who "acts independently and wayward from the usual group, generally acting in an outrageous or abnormal manner" but also a "euphamism for unprotected anal sex". I think if you're a reporter whose tweets get picked up and echoed by national media, you better be damn careful before you use a term that calls a man dishonest or immoral or worthless in a respected source for definitions of the language, and you better be ready to explain just what you mean lest people think that you're getting too deep, as it were, into his personal life.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 I agree that way too much attention is paid to the slants and takes of the local Buffalo media around here. But TG comes across as a petulant child. If he's doing that to generate clicks, good for him - I guess... Normal guy doing his job. When you put something online that people don't like you find out in a hurry that there are more irrational internet a*holes than could possibly exist offline. Then you give them a little sarcasm back.........and all of a sudden YOU started it and YOU ARE thin skinned for being snarky.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 As for being a good reporter, being factual shouldn't be an on again/off again thing. His "rogue Whaley" story was slipshod work, made worse because national media picked up on it. Frankly I hold his editors at the News responsible. They are supposed to be the gatekeepers and make reporters defend their work, especially when making damaging accusations of an NFL GM. I butt heads with PtR all the time, but this is spot on IMHO. If you want to tweet that someone "went rogue", especially if you want to frame it in a way that makes it impossible to refute ("the bills will maintain unity while speaking publically but...."), you better be willing to back it up and explain just what you mean by that, especially after you acknowledge that the guy did inform his boss. To do otherwise is slipshod indeed.
Nick the Greek Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Are the tweets still out there? If so, can you post the link to the main threads?
sodbuster Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 I don't think Coller has ever claimed to be a good college baseball player, in fact, during the exchange he mentioned that he really wasn't very good at all. It was just so disturbing because they questioned him professionally, and then he just launches into this personal crusade that he happened to be wrong about.
Dibs Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Basketball: I guess it depends upon exactly how you refer to your college basketball exploits? I don't know the details of what Coller claims re baseball. If you claim you played basketball in college, but you weren't a good player and didn't make the roster, you're being factuallly accurate, brag away. 99.5% of the population can't ball out even at that level so cred to you. If you put it on your resume that you were a 4 year starter at a DI school and you played fall ball, you're lying. If you play fall ball and you brag about your exploits, you're a tool. If someone calls you out on something you've done, and you respond by attacking some aspect of their character, that is called an "ad hominem argument" and is regarded as a type of logical fallacy and a refuge of people who really don't have an adequate response. That appears to be what Tim Graham has done in responding to Coller's questioning his tweet by attacking Coller's resume. I don't know about jagoff meanings from video games. Merriam Webster Online defines rogue as a man who is dishonest or immoral; a dishonest or worthless person; but also a mischevious person. Urban dictionary says "going rogue" is either Someone who "acts independently and wayward from the usual group, generally acting in an outrageous or abnormal manner" but also a "euphamism for unprotected anal sex". I think if you're a reporter whose tweets get picked up and echoed by national media, you better be damn careful before you use a term that calls a man dishonest or immoral or worthless in a respected source for definitions of the language, and you better be ready to explain just what you mean lest people think that you're getting too deep, as it were, into his personal life. Well said.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Normal guy doing his job. When you put something online that people don't like you find out in a hurry that there are more irrational internet a*holes than could possibly exist offline. Then you give them a little sarcasm back.........and all of a sudden YOU started it and YOU ARE thin skinned for being snarky. bull ****. The man is a reporter. His job is who what when where why, not to use libelous terms that get picked up by the national media then follow up only with sarcasm and ad hominem attacks rather than do his job - explain what that meant, question the people involved, and report on their responses. God's Truth that the internet is chock full of a*holes and trolls does not excuse the man from the responsibilities of his job if he wants to be seen as a credible reporter and source.
IDBillzFan Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Normal guy doing his job. When you put something online that people don't like you find out in a hurry that there are more irrational internet a*holes than could possibly exist offline. Then you give them a little sarcasm back.........and all of a sudden YOU started it and YOU ARE thin skinned for being snarky. Timmah is a 3rd-rate Twitter troll who LOVES everything negative with the Bills, and he doesn't need a Twitter follower to trigger his sarcasm, which primarily designed to piss off die-hard Bills fans so the half-dozen Timmahbots can tell him how dreamy he is. My favorite Timmah yesterday was how he passed up a raise and promotion at ESPN because his heart was in Buffalo. At that point, I was expecting him to start challenging people based on the car they drive, and defending the use of pickle juice as a special seasoning agent.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Basketball: I guess it depends upon exactly how you refer to your college basketball exploits? I don't know the details of what Coller claims re baseball. If you claim you played basketball in college, but you weren't a good player and didn't make the roster, you're being factuallly accurate, brag away. 99.5% of the population can't ball out even at that level so cred to you. If you put it on your resume that you were a 4 year starter at a DI school and you played fall ball, you're lying. If you play fall ball and you brag about your exploits, you're a tool. If someone calls you out on something you've done, and you respond by attacking some aspect of their character, that is called an "ad hominem argument" and is regarded as a type of logical fallacy and a refuge of people who really don't have an adequate response. That appears to be what Tim Graham has done in responding to Coller's questioning his tweet by attacking Coller's resume. I don't know about jagoff meanings from video games. Merriam Webster Online defines rogue as a man who is dishonest or immoral; a dishonest or worthless person; but also a mischevious person. Urban dictionary says "going rogue" is either Someone who "acts independently and wayward from the usual group, generally acting in an outrageous or abnormal manner" but also a "euphamism for unprotected anal sex". I think if you're a reporter whose tweets get picked up and echoed by national media, you better be damn careful before you use a term that calls a man dishonest or immoral or worthless in a respected source for definitions of the language, and you better be ready to explain just what you mean lest people think that you're getting too deep, as it were, into his personal life. The problem is that the argument is subjective to begin with. Unfortunately by chiming in Collen opened himself up to being intentionally misleading about his basketball exploits and Graham was aware of it so he took the opportunity to turn the tables on him. Nobody counts tryouts as being part of a team. You aren't on the team until you MAKE the team. That is NOT subjective. And the lower you go down in level of competition, the funnier it is that you are trying to take credit for it. "acts independently and wayward from the usual group" You can work your way down to the 3rd version of the definition but something tells me that's not what he meant.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Timmah is a 3rd-rate Twitter troll who LOVES everything negative with the Bills, and he doesn't need a Twitter follower to trigger his sarcasm, which primarily designed to piss off die-hard Bills fans so the half-dozen Timmahbots can tell him how dreamy he is. My favorite Timmah yesterday was how he passed up a raise and promotion at ESPN because his heart was in Buffalo. At that point, I was expecting him to start challenging people based on the car they drive, and defending the use of pickle juice as a special seasoning agent. I love it when you chime in. One of the original abusers of the sarcastically used "DOOOOOMED" term here 15 years ago. How does it feel to be THAT right. Oh, sorry "ad hominem argument". I think Graham wanted to stay because of he had elderly family members of ailing health, hence his heart being in Buffalo.......... but be sure to make your distaste for his social media/internet work personal. Yeah, you're a swell guy online. bull ****. The man is a reporter. His job is who what when where why, not to use libelous terms that get picked up by the national media then follow up only with sarcasm and ad hominem attacks rather than do his job - explain what that meant, question the people involved, and report on their responses. God's Truth that the internet is chock full of a*holes and trolls does not excuse the man from the responsibilities of his job if he wants to be seen as a credible reporter and source. You are confusing Grahams job responsibilities with those of John Wawrow. Both are excellent at what they do and both have a ton of vocal detractors on TSW, not surprisingly.
Acantha Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 "acts independently and wayward from the usual group" You really think TG was saying, "Bills organization will remain unified when speaking publicly, but two sources tell me Doug Whaley (acted independently and wayward from the usual group) in cutting Fred Jackson." ?? TG was using the video game meaning. There's no reason for the tweet otherwise, unless he was trying to say he had two anonymous sources inside the Bills organization that dished the move wasn't usual.
CardinalScotts Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 used to follow Tim but this is all he does-
Ramblin' Rob Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Fall ball is like tryouts..........but I think it should all count so I can start bragging on my college basketball exploits. As far as "irresponsible" journalism......."rogue" is a term that has a literal meaning....it also has a jagoff meaning for the people who learn the language from video games.....so it will be perceived differently by different intellects. Should Tim Graham take into account that it will throw folks like eball off the deep end? Absolutely not. It's the responsibility of the populous to learn the language not for reporters to simplify it for them. Now I get NYCBill's comments about you in his thank you thread. Sorry that not all of us are on the same intellectual level as you and the genius TG. Because I am a mouth breathing moron, I though Rogue was just a beer. When the story broke, I thought DW bought FJ some Dead Guy Ale in order to help FJ drown his sorrows. So when you told me it was my responsibility to learn the language, I did! you may need a refresher course yourself: rogue Also found in: Legal, Acronyms, Idioms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia. rogue (rōg) n. 1. An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal. 2. One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp. 3. A wandering beggar; a vagrant. 4. A vicious and solitary animal, especially an elephant that has separated itself from its herd. 5. An organism, especially a plant, that shows an undesirable variation from a standard. adj. 1. Vicious and solitary. Used of an animal, especially an elephant. 2. Large, destructive, and anomalous or unpredictable: rogue tornado. 3. Operating outside normal or desirable controls At best TG was using the adjective to describe DW 'Operating outside normal or desirable controls' which was not true. At worst, he was referring to DW the person as 'An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.' So, Mr. Smarty pants, which is it? TG is a hack, an it IS a shame that Wowrow and others jumped on this garbage barge of a story, because for a time before Fairburn came and Curucci came back, Wowrow was it for me and unbiased Bills coverage. I think Graham wanted to stay because of he had elderly family members of ailing health, hence his heart being in Buffalo.......... but be sure to make your distaste for his social media/internet work personal. Yeah, you're a swell guy online. Dude, in your first post you took a personal shot at eball, sooo, guess that makes you a swell guy too?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 The problem is that the argument is subjective to begin with. Unfortunately by chiming in Collen opened himself up to being intentionally misleading about his basketball exploits and Graham was aware of it so he took the opportunity to turn the tables on him. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "the argument is subjective to begin with". Collen only opened himself up to the logical fallacy of an ad hominem attack by questioning a reporter who considers such as a responsible substitute to responding to questions.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) used to follow Tim but this is all he does- Good for you for being a rational human being then. I don't "follow" anybody but if I did and I didn't like their work I would stop. I wouldn't be tweeting back or having them as my avatar. That's ludicrous. You really think TG was saying, "Bills organization will remain unified when speaking publicly, but two sources tell me Doug Whaley (acted independently and wayward from the usual group) in cutting Fred Jackson." ?? TG was using the video game meaning. There's no reason for the tweet otherwise, unless he was trying to say he had two anonymous sources inside the Bills organization that dished the move wasn't usual. YES.......I think that was EXACTLY what he LITERALLY meant. But the fact that somebody might take any of the secondary meanings........even the "anal sex" angle, doesn't hurt clicks. Much of his audience leads a life very much about entertainment.......sports viewing, twitter following, "fantasy" sports playing......he has to take that into account.........why people act like this is life or death business I have no idea. Edited September 5, 2015 by #BADOL
BADOLBILZ Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Now I get NYCBill's comments about you in his thank you thread. Sorry that not all of us are on the same intellectual level as you and the genius TG. Because I am a mouth breathing moron, I though Rogue was just a beer. When the story broke, I thought DW bought FJ some Dead Guy Ale in order to help FJ drown his sorrows. So when you told me it was my responsibility to learn the language, I did! you may need a refresher course yourself: rogue Also found in: Legal, Acronyms, Idioms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia.rogue (rōg) n. 1. An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal. 2. One who is playfully mischievous; a scamp. 3. A wandering beggar; a vagrant. 4. A vicious and solitary animal, especially an elephant that has separated itself from its herd. 5. An organism, especially a plant, that shows an undesirable variation from a standard. adj. 1. Vicious and solitary. Used of an animal, especially an elephant. 2. Large, destructive, and anomalous or unpredictable: rogue tornado. 3. Operating outside normal or desirable controls At best TG was using the adjective to describe DW 'Operating outside normal or desirable controls' which was not true. At worst, he was referring to DW the person as 'An unprincipled, deceitful, and unreliable person; a scoundrel or rascal.' So, Mr. Smarty pants, which is it? TG is a hack, an it IS a shame that Wowrow and others jumped on this garbage barge of a story, because for a time before Fairburn came and Curucci came back, Wowrow was it for me and unbiased Bills coverage. Dude, in your first post you took a personal shot at eball, sooo, guess that makes you a swell guy too? You're strugglin dude. Already covered the meaning and how it can be interpreted. You choose a VERY negative take......that's on you. I suppose you also think Rogue beer is undrinkable based on it's name. Could be. Couldn't tell you. As for the personal stuff........I've taken a ton of grief for being right from these same people so there is no introduction between us. I once laughed at the notion of CJ Spiller running for 2,000 yards on here and got about 20 pages of hate responses so that tells you what you are up against facing the truth on this board. Nobody likes losing football games but some of us like to view their hobby objectively. Win games and the takes get more favorable.
Acantha Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Good for you for being a rational human being then. I don't "follow" anybody but if I did and I didn't like there work I would stop. I wouldn't be tweeting back or having them as my avatar. That's ludicrous. YES.......I think that was EXACTLY what he LITERALLY meant. But the fact that somebody might take any of the secondary meanings........even the "anal sex" angle, doesn't hurt clicks. Much of his audience leads a life very much about entertainment.......sports viewing, twitter following, "fantasy" sports playing......he has to take that into account.........why people act like this is life or death business I have no idea. Who is taking this as life or death? Disliking a journalist for, at best, intentionally misleading his readers (if your explanation is correct) and often personally attacking people on social media (deserved or not) has nothing to do with life or death. It's just disliking someone who is a common figure in their entertainment world, and this is exactly the forum to talk about those opinions. You're treating this just as seriously as anyone else, and drawing attention to these posts why? Kind of the the same argument you used a little while ago. As for my take, I think you give TG way too much credit to think this kind of thing out. Saying that he has two sources contradicting the Bills organization implies he thinks he has inside info that you won't get from anywhere else. Following that up with "the move was unusual" is ridiculous. He's either a liar or a horrible reporter.
BADOLBILZ Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 I'm not quite sure what you mean by "the argument is subjective to begin with". Collen only opened himself up to the logical fallacy of an ad hominem attack by questioning a reporter who considers such as a responsible substitute to responding to questions. Here is where I go "ad hominem" on you. Your opinion on the subject means less to me because you don't know what Tim Grahams' job is. You think he is just a reporter. That is incorrect. The very premise of your disagreement is undermined by this fact.
Ramblin' Rob Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) You're strugglin dude. Already covered the meaning and how it can be interpreted. You choose a VERY negative take......that's on you. I suppose you also think Rogue beer is undrinkable based on it's name. Could be. Couldn't tell you. As for the personal stuff........I've taken a ton of grief for being right from these same people so there is no introduction between us. I once laughed at the notion of CJ Spiller running for 2,000 yards on here and got about 20 pages of hate responses so that tells you what you are up against facing the truth on this board. Nobody likes losing football games but some of us like to view their hobby objectively. Win games and the takes get more favorable. OK then, you got me. You posted your definition as I was typing. You ARE smarter than us! You chose- "acts independently and wayward from the usual group" I chose- "Operating outside normal or desirable controls" at best. (yes, i also gave an 'at worst' option) You are the one struggling if you don't see the similarities in our chosen definitions. Beyond that, DW did not act independently, nor did he operate outside of normal controls. Hence, TG rogue article was total BS. Here is where I go "ad hominem" on you. Your opinion on the subject means less to me because you don't know what Tim Grahams' job is. You think he is just a reporter. That is incorrect. The very premise of your disagreement is undermined by this fact. so he is a fiction writer too? Edited September 5, 2015 by Ramblin' Rob
BADOLBILZ Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Who is taking this as life or death? Disliking a journalist for, at best, intentionally misleading his readers (if your explanation is correct) and often personally attacking people on social media (deserved or not) has nothing to do with life or death. It's just disliking someone who is a common figure in their entertainment world, and this is exactly the forum to talk about those opinions. You're treating this just as seriously as anyone else, and drawing attention to these posts why? Kind of the the same argument you used a little while ago. As for my take, I think you give TG way too much credit to think this kind of thing out. Saying that he has two sources contradicting the Bills organization implies he thinks he has inside info that you won't get from anywhere else. Following that up with "the move was unusual" is ridiculous. He's either a liar or a horrible reporter. I don't mind Tim Graham getting more attention so it is certainly NOT the same argument. I don't give him too much credit, what he is doing is very simple. The fact that it irks posters like eball, PTR or LABillzfan is ok with me because they have worked aggressively against open discussion of Bills topics for years. You can question his sources all you want. I do not. I found out long ago that fans perceive those involved with the NFL a great deal differently than they actually are. They are just regular people in jobs that happen to involve fanatics for customers. Regular people who will use the media when they feel wronged or undermined. That's what happened here with the be-fredding.
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