Felser an idiot again

[jahbonas]

Larry Felser in the past has claimed the following:

1) 1985 Draft Bills should draft Doug Flutie #1 overall instead of Bruce Smith (Flutie was not drafted until 4th round or later)

2) 1989 Before Bills /Browns playoffs game Felser claimed Bills should start frank Reich over Kelly because Kelly cannot win a big playoff game. Kelly threw 5TD's that day and went on to win 4 straight AFC championship games.

3) Today..Felser does not think Dan Marino was even top10 all time in QB's. He ofcourse takes the simple/dumb approach of Superbowl wins determining a great QB. An incredible take when there is no other sport where an individual player has less impact since they never play defense. Apparently Larry feels Jeff Hostettler, Mark Rypien and Trent Dilfer and Franco Harris are better players than Jim Kelly Dan Marino an Fouts and OJ Simpson.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Simpletons use SB wins as a mark of a great player. Winning the SB is ALL about the team, and most of the time about who has the best coaching. Give Marino or Kelly Brady's/Dilfer's/Rypien's/Hostetler's coaching and/or defense and they win at least 1 SB.

[Fezmid]

2) 1989 Before Bills /Browns playoffs game Felser claimed Bills should start frank Reich over Kelly because Kelly cannot win a big playoff game. Kelly threw 5TD's that day and went on to win 4 straight AFC championship games.

 

Hey, the Bills couldn't have done any worse with Reich in that game. They lost, remember?

 

CW

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Hey, the Bills couldn't have done any worse with Reich in that game.  They lost, remember?

[Puhonix]

slightly out of the loop here, but who is this Felser idiot? I gotta stand up for my Dolphin here, Marino is among the top three QBs of all time, and has a strong case to be argued as the best. Granted, he has no rings, but Barkley has no rings, and no one is arguing his greatness. Karl Malone has no rings, and my favortie steroid user, Barry has no rings. Anyone goig to argue their greatness? I'll tell you what, Steve Young was a great QB, but I'd put Marino, Elway, and Kelly over him in any ranking.

[jahbonas]

Simpletons use SB wins as a mark of a great player.  Winning the SB is ALL about the team, and most of the time about who has the best coaching.  Give Marino or Kelly Brady's/Dilfer's/Rypien's/Hostetler's coaching and/or defense and they win at least 1 SB.

237335[/snapback]

Exactly...the biggest difference betwwen Montana/Young and Kelly is they had Ronnie Lott as their saftey and Kelly had Mark kelsoe. Also those San Fran defenses were all ranked #1 or #2...Kelly took the #27 defense to the Superbowl TWICE....and the other defense he brought in 1990 kept his 11 man unit off the field for over an hour ! I wonder how Young/Montana would have performed while sitting watching their defenses for an hour?? One other point..Kelly went to 4 Superbowls..4 times in a row he faced the #1 defense in the league in those games !! But accoring to Larry's logic..the difference in those games was the qb position..not the offensive lines or defenses or coaching.....

[jahbonas]

slightly out of the loop here, but who is this Felser idiot? I gotta stand up for my Dolphin here, Marino is among the top three QBs of all time, and has a strong case to be argued as the best. Granted, he has no rings, but Barkley has no rings, and no one is arguing his greatness. Karl Malone has no rings, and my favortie steroid user, Barry has no rings. Anyone goig to argue their greatness? I'll tell you what, Steve Young was a great QB, but I'd put Marino, Elway, and Kelly over him in any ranking.

237341[/snapback]

I agree with you 100%...the Bills under kelly often beat marino & the dolphins..but I never let those losses cloud the fact we were facing a great qb in Marino. Felser is a longtime Buffalo writer..who unfortunately also has voting ability on HOF candidates.....his biggests claim to fame was he attended every superbowl...well I could bring my pet dog to every game too but I'm not gonna listen to his opinion when he's told me to draft Flutie over Smith

[Rico]

Meh.. if it's a big game, I don't want Loser Dan playing QB for me. Once he got the "deer-in-the-headlights" look on his face, it was time to B word at his WRs cause the game was over.

[Corp000085]

Hey, the Bills couldn't have done any worse with Reich in that game. They lost, remember? 

 

ah, the JP over drew debate! God i love TSW!

 

By the way, i rank drew bledsoe as #6 all time, based on yardage.

[Puhonix]

Meh.. if it's a big game, I don't want Loser Dan playing QB for me. Once he got the "deer-in-the-headlights" look on his face, it was time to B word at his WRs cause the game was over.

237345[/snapback]

 

Your an idiot. Give up your bias and look at both careers. Marino, Kelly, Elway all lead several game winning drives. Marino even engineered the fake spike that beat Indy. Great play. Deerin headlights look? Marino always kept his composure, and with a better running game, he would have had a lot more wins and even a ring. Defenses were always playing back against Marino cause Miami could never run the ball. AND HE STILL Threw for all those records. Take that into account. You wanna see deer in headlights? Look at Bledsoe.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I agree with you 100%...the Bills under kelly often beat marino & the dolphins..but I never let those losses cloud the fact we were facing a great qb in Marino. Felser is a longtime Buffalo writer..who unfortunately also has voting ability on HOF candidates.....his biggests claim to fame was he attended every superbowl...well I could bring my pet dog to every game too but I'm not gonna listen to his opinion when he's told me to draft Flutie over Smith

237344[/snapback]

 

 

I think you are being too harsh in the straw man you put out there in your description of Felser's views. The position you describe are certainly obvious idiocy if they represented the totality of Felser's views but they don't and if you want to harang him with any accuracy they should.

 

I am far from a Felser expert because I pay a lot more attention to records of the athletes rather than focusing on the records of those who watch the athletes. but I remember Felser being a big time booster of Jim Kelly and his record andof his rightful membership in the HOF. As Felser was an active participant and stalwart on that committee it is doubtful that Kelly would have been a first ballot winner or Marv would have got HOF membership with Felser introducing the award in Canton if Felser was as rigidly judgmental about SB wins as you describe.

 

Only a simpleton would take the stance that SB wins is all that matters in determining greatness, but it would be equally simplistic to claim that whether you win the SB doesn't matter at all.

 

An SB win does not elevate Dilfer to HOF status, but the failure to win one is a blot on Marino (or bakley's failure to secure a championship in the Jordan era) and his record. It actually speaks to how good of a QB Marino was that even with this obvious shortcoming he stull deserves HOF membership, but get a clue the fact that Elway won two SBs with his team is part of what outs him ahead of Marino on my list of QBs I'd love to have. In fact, that Kelly came close but no cigar 4 times while Marino only breathed SB air once makes me think long and hard that if I had my choice of QBs in one game or a career I would make my own, I'd choose Kelly over Marino.

[Rico]

Marino even engineered the fake spike that beat Indy.

It was the Jets.

 

Marino always kept his composure

 

You wanna see deer in headlights? Look at Bledsoe.

Can't argue with you there.

[jahbonas]

I think you are being too harsh in the straw man you put out there in your description of Felser's views.  The position you describe are certainly obvious idiocy if they represented the totality of Felser's views but they don't and if you want to harang him with any accuracy they should.

 

I am far from a Felser expert because I pay a lot more attention to records of the athletes rather than focusing on the records of those who watch the athletes. but I remember Felser being a big time booster of Jim Kelly and his record andof his rightful membership in the HOF.  As Felser was an active participant and stalwart on that committee it is doubtful that Kelly would have been a first ballot winner or Marv would have got HOF membership with Felser introducing the award in Canton if Felser was as rigidly judgmental about SB wins as you describe.

 

Only a simpleton would take the stance that SB wins is all that matters in determining greatness, but it would be equally simplistic to claim that whether you win the SB doesn't matter at all.

 

An SB win does not elevate Dilfer to HOF status, but the failure to win one is a blot on Marino (or bakley's failure to secure a championship in the Jordan era) and his record.  It actually speaks to how good of a QB Marino was that even with this obvious shortcoming he stull deserves HOF membership, but get a clue the fact that Elway won two SBs with his team is part of what outs him ahead of Marino on my list of QBs I'd love to have.  In fact, that Kelly came close but no cigar 4 times while Marino only breathed SB air once makes me think long and hard that if I had my choice of QBs in one game or a career I would make my own, I'd choose Kelly over Marino.

237352[/snapback]

 

You miss my point COMPLETELY if you point out Barkley not winning a ring. In Basketball it is VERY fair to blame a player for not winning a ring because he is 20% of the Offense & 20% of the defense !! In football...with 3 seperate 11 man units (and yes i include special teams since they missed a FG) a qb is 1 of 33 players...making it far harder to determine the outcome.

 

You are not a Felser expert..I am from Buffalo and I read his columns daily for 25 years.....

Felser's #1 Qb alltime...?? Montano..because he has 4 rings

I think Elway was far more impressive and HOF material in the seasons he lost the superbowls than in the seasons he won where he just handed off to 2000 yard rusher Terrell Davis and was not even his own team's mvp....Kelly or Marino or Fouts could have won late Superbowls too if they were given a 2000 yard rusher in their backfields

[Albany,n.y.]

Larry Felser in the past has claimed the following:

1) 1985 Draft Bills should draft Doug Flutie #1 overall instead of Bruce Smith (Flutie was not drafted until 4th round or later)

 

You really impressed me with your knowledge of the 1985 draft! Since you were either too young or asleep in 1985, let me enlighten you as to why Flutie was drafted in the 11th round by the Rams. There was this other league called the USFL, they played in the spring and their season started long before the NFL draft. When the Bills, who had the 1st pick in the draft (and already had NFL rights to the USFL's best QB-Jim Kelly) didn't show interest in Flutie, he signed a long term contract with Donald Trump to play in the USFL with the New Jersey Generals. In 1985's draft, NFL teams were taking flyers on USFL players but not wasting premium picks on them. Herschel Walker was taken in the 5th round by Dallas in the same draft-do you think he was rated a 5th rounder. Well Flutie wasn't rated an 11th rounder either-so bringing up Fluties NFL draft status doesn't make Felser an idiot. Felser has spent many a year in the HOF voting room & was trying to explain the process in his column. You might not agree with him, but he knows more about football than this entire board combined-including you.

[Albany,n.y.]

Your an idiot. Give up your bias and look at both careers. Marino, Kelly, Elway all lead several game winning drives. Marino even engineered the fake spike that beat Indy. Great play. Deerin headlights look? Marino always kept his composure, and with a better running game, he would have had a lot more wins and even a ring. Defenses were always playing back against Marino cause Miami could never run the ball. AND HE STILL Threw for all those records. Take that into account. You wanna see deer in headlights? Look at Bledsoe.

237348[/snapback]

 

For the record-the fake spike was against the Jets, I was at the game.

[eSJayDee]

3) Today..Felser does not think Dan Marino was even top10 all time in QB's.

 

I won't go so far as to call Felser an idiot, but an annoying dofus, yes. On this particular one, I happen to agree w/ him. Montana, Elway, Starr, Unitas, Graham, Staubach, etc. (I'd put Kelly ahead of him.)

I my opinion, there's a lot of QBs I'd rather have leading my team than Marino.

[jahbonas]

Larry Felser in the past has claimed the following:

1) 1985 Draft Bills should draft Doug Flutie #1 overall instead of Bruce Smith (Flutie was not drafted until 4th round or later)

 

You really impressed me with your knowledge of the 1985 draft!  Since you were either too young or asleep in 1985, let me enlighten you as to why Flutie was drafted in the 11th round by the Rams.  There was this other league called the USFL, they played in the spring and their season started long before the NFL draft.  When the Bills, who had the 1st pick in the draft (and already had NFL rights to the USFL's best QB-Jim Kelly) didn't show interest in Flutie, he signed a long term contract with Donald Trump to play in the USFL with the New Jersey Generals.  In 1985's draft, NFL teams were taking flyers on USFL players but not wasting premium picks on them.  Herschel Walker was taken in the 5th round by Dallas in the same draft-do you think he was rated a 5th rounder.  Well Flutie wasn't rated an 11th rounder either-so bringing up Fluties NFL draft status doesn't make Felser an idiot.  Felser has spent many a year in the HOF voting room & was trying to explain the process in his column.  You might not agree with him, but he knows more about football than this entire board combined-including you.

237368[/snapback]

I'm aware of the 1985 draft....Flutie was in no way a #1 pick overall talent...as was PROVEN when he played in the CFL for years because NFL teams did not feel he could play in the NFL (or do u think flutie would chhose to play CFL over NFL for all those years??).....Bruce Smith was chosen and became the most prolific sack leader in NFL history. Flutie was forced out of the NFL to play in the minor leagues CFL....because he was not good enough to make an NFL roster in that era of the NFL!!!

Perhaps you feel the Bills should have selected Flutie overall #1...then I can see how u respect Fleser's opinion...

[Albany,n.y.]

I'm aware of the 1985 draft....Flutie was in no way a #1 pick overall talent...as was PROVEN when he played in the CFL for years because NFL teams did not feel he could play in the NFL (or do u think flutie would chhose to play CFL over NFL for all those years??).....Bruce Smith was chosen and became the most prolific sack leader in NFL history. Flutie was forced out of the NFL to play in the minor leagues CFL....because he was not good enough to make an NFL roster in that era of the NFL!!!

Perhaps you feel the Bills should have selected Flutie overall #1...then I can see how u respect Fleser's opinion...

237392[/snapback]

You obviously don't get the point (AGAIN!) Flutie was not going to be a #1 overall NFL pick. On the other hand, where he was chosen in the NFL draft had nothing to do with how he was rated coming out of college, because he was already under contract in the USFL. So...by stating where Flutie was drafted to support your opinion, you lose all credibility and it looks like you are not aware of the circumstances involved in the 1985 NFL draft. Back in 1985, I had a pretty good feeling that Jim Kelly would soon be comming to Buffalo, so I was against drafting a QB with the first pick no matter who he was. I was never a fan of Flutie's but I respect Felser and value his opinions over someone who cherrypicks a few bad ones and bashes the guy.

[Simon]

I can't weigh in on the Felcher debate cuz I don't read him.

But I probably wouldn't put Marino in my Top10 either.

Cya

[LabattBlue]

Larry Felser in the past has claimed the following:

1) 1985 Draft  Bills should draft Doug Flutie #1 overall instead of Bruce Smith (Flutie was not drafted until 4th round or later)

2) 1989 Before Bills /Browns playoffs game Felser claimed Bills should start frank Reich over Kelly because Kelly cannot win a big playoff game. Kelly threw 5TD's that day and went on to win 4 straight AFC championship games.

3) Today..Felser does not think Dan Marino was even top10 all time in QB's. He ofcourse takes the simple/dumb approach of Superbowl wins determining a great QB. An incredible take when there is no other sport where an individual player has less impact since they never play defense. Apparently Larry feels Jeff Hostettler, Mark Rypien and Trent Dilfer and Franco Harris are better players than Jim Kelly Dan Marino an Fouts and OJ Simpson.

237323[/snapback]

Larry is a columnist. Columnists form opinions and then have them printed in the paper. If you are so much better at forming opinions, maybe you should apply to the News. He has written hundreds if not thousands of columns over the years. I wouldn't expect him to have been correct in his observations 100% of the time.

 

PS Hindsight is 20/20.