YoloinOhio Posted September 5, 2015 Author Posted September 5, 2015 No, I haven't read it @JosinaAnderson: #Patriots QB Tom Brady issues a statement via Facebook. http://t.co/lR6eNIS89H
Augie Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 No, I haven't read it @JosinaAnderson: #Patriots QB Tom Brady issues a statement via Facebook. http://t.co/lR6eNIS89H I would rather have found Peter Pan on that link......
Pneumonic Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Have the owners asked Goodell to withdraw the appeals of other cases recently lost? Do they want him no to pursue the appeal of the Brady case? If that happens, I'd put more weight into the opinions of Kraft and Blank. I know for a fact that there are owners that aren't happy with NE's** involvement in the various cheating scandals over the years. If I were the owners, I'd use the removal of Goodell as sole arbiter as a chip in the next CBA negotiations. What is the NFLPA going to give up in return? GO BILLS!!! The CBA doesn't expire for another 5 or 6 years. By that time, the NFLPA will probably have dominated in court enough times that they would welcome continued court processes. As such, I doubt they would want any change, certainly not change that comes at a steep (negotiated) cost. Heck, they might even ask for Goodell's continued employ as commish as one of their conditions.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 may his armpits get infested with tics may his balls swell and become to tender to touch
Buffaloed in Pa Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 It was all for show. Nothing was gonna happen. Now Goodell can say I tried...smirk.
JohnC Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 The CBA doesn't expire for another 5 or 6 years. By that time, the NFLPA will probably have dominated in court enough times that they would welcome continued court processes. As such, I doubt they would want any change, certainly not change that comes at a steep (negotiated) cost. Heck, they might even ask for Goodell's continued employ as commish as one of their conditions. One of the lead attorneys for the NFLPA, Kessler, stated on a radio show that he would like the union and the league to get together and work out a reasonable adjustment to the current disciplinary system. He made the point that it is in neither party's interest to constantly be involved in these draining legal battles over disciplinary issues. The central focus in negotiating a modified system is not going to be about giving up or gaining advantages from a labor/management perspective. The focus would be on establishing a better disciplinary system that benefits everyone. There is an obvious simple solution. An interim deal can be worked out where the league maintains its disciplinary authority given to it under the current CBA but a separate (independent) system of appeal is created and staffed by mutually agreed upon arbitrators. With that type of administrative structure there would be no need to run to the courts to seek redress. As it stands the league already uses neutral arbitrators in some cases to review cases. Why not just institutionalize that part of the system that works and avoid the conflict of interest problems that undercut the credibility of the current system?
TedWilliamsFrozenHead Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 This ruling is exactly what I expected. On to game 2. Never mind the fact that a soft ball is easier to catch for receivers, and easier to hold on to for RB's. This isn't just about Brady.
Pneumonic Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) One of the lead attorneys for the NFLPA, Kessler, stated on a radio show that he would like the union and the league to get together and work out a reasonable adjustment to the current disciplinary system. He made the point that it is in neither party's interest to constantly be involved in these draining legal battles over disciplinary issues. The central focus in negotiating a modified system is not going to be about giving up or gaining advantages from a labor/management perspective. The focus would be on establishing a better disciplinary system that benefits everyone. There is an obvious simple solution. An interim deal can be worked out where the league maintains its disciplinary authority given to it under the current CBA but a separate (independent) system of appeal is created and staffed by mutually agreed upon arbitrators. With that type of administrative structure there would be no need to run to the courts to seek redress. As it stands the league already uses neutral arbitrators in some cases to review cases. Why not just institutionalize that part of the system that works and avoid the conflict of interest problems that undercut the credibility of the current system? I'm sure they may wish for a more fair arbitration system or, at least one where the NFL employs fair arbitration tactics to apply what the CBA allows them to to arbitrate. My point is ... the NFLPA shouldn't concede, or relinquish, any valuable piece of negotiating power in order to do so; legally, they are clearly operating from a very strong position of strength (5-0 at the moment) on this matter. Edited September 5, 2015 by Pneumonic
YoloinOhio Posted September 5, 2015 Author Posted September 5, 2015 @ProFootballTalk: Tom Brady's father calls radio station, blasts "NFL propaganda," says Roger Goodell is a "flaming liar" http://t.co/YK2bP91B30
K-9 Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 @ProFootballTalk: Tom Brady's father calls radio station, blasts "NFL propaganda," says Roger Goodell is a "flaming liar" http://t.co/YK2bP91B30 Brady is not the only one to testify under oath, so Tom Sr., like Tom Jr., is a liar as well. What did Goodell lie about? Judge Berman clearly stated he accepted the arbiter's findings as fact. He had problems with the process and ruled accordingly. GO BILLS!!!
Fixxxer Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 Just because the judge ruled against the NFL doesn't mean Brady is innocent.
NoSaint Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 Brady is not the only one to testify under oath, so Tom Sr., like Tom Jr., is a liar as well. What did Goodell lie about? Judge Berman clearly stated he accepted the arbiter's findings as fact. He had problems with the process and ruled accordingly. GO BILLS!!! I've primarily read commentary/secondhand summaries but didn't he essentially say "it's not my responsibility to measure the accuracy of the report so the court accepts it and is ruling on process"
TSOL Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 @ProFootballTalk: Tom Brady's father calls radio station, blasts "NFL propaganda," says Roger Goodell is a "flaming liar" http://t.co/YK2bP91B30 We can talk all the smack we want about Brady, hell, I'll be the first guy to do so. But he is going to come out HIGHLY motivated this year. When you give a guy, as talented as he is, this kind of fuel to his fire, I don't even know. He is going to be lookin to prove something. You don't win 4 Superbowl by letting 1\2 lbs of psi out of a couple of footballs.
MattM Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 I've primarily read commentary/secondhand summaries but didn't he essentially say "it's not my responsibility to measure the accuracy of the report so the court accepts it and is ruling on process" As in some sense an appellate court, he needs to take the facts as the arbitrator found them, as would any rational person reading those texts, seeing that Tweedledumber got tens of thousands of dollars worth of swag from Brady and seeing that the Pats* refused to let Wells talk again to Tweedledumber and Brady destroying his phone. This opinion was not about saying Brady was innocent--any rational person looking at just the evidence above would find he was not--it was simply about Goodell not having the power to nail the cheater because the CBA did not spell out that someone who orchestrates stealing balls and deflating them could be suspended and that since no one had previously been suspended for obstructing an investigation shady Brady* could not be suspended here (begging the question as to how anyone could ever be so suspended). Pretty simple, actually. The Pash stuff was just so much fluff added at the end, as was the last argument of "even though you both agreed that there would be limited discovery in arbitration, I'm going to overturn that". Absolutely ridiculous decision from a go forward policy standpoint, throwing into doubt almost any punishment the league wants to hand down going forward unless it's explicitly in the CBA. The league has no choice but to appeal. I expect this to be overturned, but far too late to effectively punish Brady*, who got to play in a SB right after cheating in an AFCCG. A low point for the sport.
K-9 Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 I've primarily read commentary/secondhand summaries but didn't he essentially say "it's not my responsibility to measure the accuracy of the report so the court accepts it and is ruling on process" I am absolutely and deliberately splitting hairs. As Rob's House said earlier, just because the court accepts the arbiters findings as fact, doesn't mean it endeorses the findings. I just like knowing those words are contained in the official ruling. It clarifies that the court in no way exonerated Tom Brady. GO BILLS!!!
JohnC Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 The league has no choice but to appeal. I expect this to be overturned, but far too late to effectively punish Brady*, who got to play in a SB right after cheating in an AFCCG. A low point for the sport. Abby Lowell is one of the most respect attorneys in the country. When he was asked on a radio show what where the chances that the judge's ruling would be overturned in appeal he said zero. Even the legal analysts who thought that the league would prevail in this case now believe based on how the judge wrote his scathing decision say that there is little chance that this ruling would be overturned. Roger Cossack is a respected lawyer and legal analyst for ESPN who followed this case from its inception. Throughout his extended coverage he felt the legal hurdles were too daunting for the union to prevail. When the ruling was rendered and after reading the decision he stated with no equivocation that there was little chance that the league would win in its appeal. With respect to your comment that RG is compelled to appeal this court decision I respectfully disagree. Appealing a ruling that has demonstrated his lack of competence is not an act of prudence but an act of foolishness. When you lose six consecutive cases reviewed by unbiased parties and continue taking the same self-destructive approach that is a bill-board level of display of his own stupidity.
MattM Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 Abby Lowell is one of the most respect attorneys in the country. When he was asked on a radio show what where the chances that the judge's ruling would be overturned in appeal he said zero. Even the legal analysts who thought that the league would prevail in this case now believe based on how the judge wrote his scathing decision say that there is little chance that this ruling would be overturned. Roger Cossack is a respected lawyer and legal analyst for ESPN who followed this case from its inception. Throughout his extended coverage he felt the legal hurdles were too daunting for the union to prevail. When the ruling was rendered and after reading the decision he stated with no equivocation that there was little chance that the league would win in its appeal. With respect to your comment that RG is compelled to appeal this court decision I respectfully disagree. Appealing a ruling that has demonstrated his lack of competence is not an act of prudence but an act of foolishness. When you lose six consecutive cases reviewed by unbiased parties and continue taking the same self-destructive approach that is a bill-board level of display of his own stupidity. I guess we'll see--many esteemed attorneys looking at the original case viewed the League as the most likely victor in the original case. What I meant be he must appeal is that Judge Berman's decision effectively guts any discipline not spelled out in detail in the CBA. For that reason alone, they have no choice but to appeal. As a corporate attorney, the decision is a bit scary. The judge basically rewrote the deal between the parties despite the language in the CBA on a number of points.
Mr. WEO Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 Never mind the fact that a soft ball is easier to catch for receivers, and easier to hold on to for RB's. This isn't just about Brady. That's right--could be about P Manning as well. Since he and Brady loobied for the rule change for ball handling before games, the Colts own 2 of the top 4 lowest fumbling rates (5 year running avg) in the NFL. NE have the other two. I guess we'll see--many esteemed attorneys looking at the original case viewed the League as the most likely victor in the original case. What I meant be he must appeal is that Judge Berman's decision effectively guts any discipline not spelled out in detail in the CBA. For that reason alone, they have no choice but to appeal. As a corporate attorney, the decision is a bit scary. The judge basically rewrote the deal between the parties despite the language in the CBA on a number of points. This is the most often repeated, yet inaccurate conclusion of this whole affair.
JohnC Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 I guess we'll see--many esteemed attorneys looking at the original case viewed the League as the most likely victor in the original case. What I meant be he must appeal is that Judge Berman's decision effectively guts any discipline not spelled out in detail in the CBA. For that reason alone, they have no choice but to appeal. As a corporate attorney, the decision is a bit scary. The judge basically rewrote the deal between the parties despite the language in the CBA on a number of points. The judge didn't gut the terms of the CBA by his ruling. What he stressed in his ruling is that RG and the league didn't abide by the terms of the CBA as demonstrated by the way this case was processed by the league. Most analysts prior to the decision overwhelmingly believed that the league would win this cased based on the glaring imbalance in disciplinary authority given to the league by the terms of the CBA. That wasn't the issue in this fracas although that is the hollow position he is taking after his humiliating loss. It has to be emphasized that the union didn't challenge the league's authority in this case (so stated in court to the judge); it challenged their rogue behavior in following the rules proscribed in the disciplinary process. Go back and scan the judge's ruling. It catalogued a list of blatant violations of conduct relating to the process. There was little mention of "balls" and player behavior in the judge's summary. The reason for the judge's focus is that was the core issue (process) he was supposed to address. This case exposed to the public how incompetently, arbitrarily and capriciously Goodell handled his disciplinary responsibilities. If there was a loss in the commissioner's authority in these types of matter it was not due to the union and the legal system altering the terms of the CBA; it was due to the fact that he destroyed his own credibility to act with a reasonable level of fairness. In other words he sabotaged himself. Arrogance combined with incompetence is a toxic mixture. This extended legal fiasco was a byproduct of that destructive mixture. RG's pursuing an appeal is not an example of his astuteness; it is a glaring example of his obtuseness.
MattM Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 (edited) That's right--could be about P Manning as well. Since he and Brady loobied for the rule change for ball handling before games, the Colts own 2 of the top 4 lowest fumbling rates (5 year running avg) in the NFL. NE have the other two. This is the most often repeated, yet inaccurate conclusion of this whole affair. I've read the whole opinion? Have you? You conveniently left out that Manning plays at least 9 games a year in a dome, which was explained by the study's original author. Edited September 6, 2015 by MattM
Recommended Posts