Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Well the good news is numerous lawyers made a major sch!tton of money for essentially a net zero outcome. And since Goodell is appealing, this should thankfully continue.
Never NEVER Give-up Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Don't blame the commish. This is on the NFL Lawyers who advised him on the CBA - they need to make it (the CBA) clear and able to withstand legal challenges like Brady just did. Oh and by the way, now that Brady's playing in week two, the Pats will have no excuses if we win!!
Tuco Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 The CBA is a collection of allot of different rules and rights. One of the rights is the Commisioner has authority to make changes to discipline but he can't arbitrarilly decide what can be disciplined. Meaning he can't change on the fly the NFL Integrity rule as written in the CBA already on who can be punished. He can petition the owners, NFLPA to make the change to mean players but can't just decide this himself. The commisioner also doesn't have the right to convict someone when there is no direct evidence then claim the player impeded the process. Believe me, if Roger won this case the NFLPA would go to court stop this CBA for allowing a dictator ship to be laid in place against individual rights given in the constitution. A employee can be fired but not disciplined arbitraily outside of the constitution rights of the 5th amendment. The burden of proof for discipline comes from being found guilty beyond the reason of doubt. Roger Goodell has not been given the right to take away legal action against the NFL when it violates federal law and constitutional rights. Brady has a right to defend himself from arbitrally being called GUILTY and punished. The team however isn't afforded the same rights since they are a franchise of the NFL and are held to a higher "NFL Integrity". The Patriots as a employer hold more of a right to discipline for Integrity since they pay his check but still rules are in place. If a individual violates the NFL Integrity rule that is on the team first, the NFL has no rights to discpline a individual for this. The team was fined and disciplined, they can punish Brady if he had a part, not the league. Paragraph 15 of the NFL Player Contract says they do. 15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity; uses or provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract.
Rocky Landing Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 If we win week two, I will have been fine with this development. If we lose, it's total B.S.
Best Player Available Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 If we win week two, I will have been fine with this development. If we lose, it's total B.S. i expect Brady's balls to be fully deflated week two.
PortlandiaEast Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Tuco nailed it. I have no idea how you can read that and overturn the case. Its BS but they agreed to it.
snafu Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Suspended or not, his legacy is tarnished (at least in my mind) and that's what Brady was allegedly fighting so hard to protect. And during this whole process, he cemented his status as a self-important douche.
Rob's House Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Paragraph 15 of the NFL Player Contract says they do. 15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity; uses or provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract. I can see a strong argument that merely having knowledge of misconduct does not subject one to penalties under that section.
NoSaint Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 I can see a strong argument that merely having knowledge of misconduct does not subject one to penalties under that section. Apparently you aren't the only one that could make that argument compelling. Seems like only yesterday folks celebrated the nfl cherry picking the district and now it's a dirty activist judge....
KD in CA Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Looks like cheaters do prosper. Pathetic. /thread
USABuffaloFan Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) http://deadspin.com/heres-the-integrity-of-the-game-honor-code-the-nfl-sa-1722162689 " For the first timeas far as we can tellthe NFLs secret honor oath has become public, as part of the NFLPAs lawsuit over Tom Bradys suspension. Its this Integrity Of The Game Certification upon which the NFL has hinged its four-game ban on the Patriots quarterback, and yet the text of this honor code was never made available to us. Tom Bradys appeal has argued the code doesnt apply to him; indeed, only team owners, presidents, general managers, and head coaches have to sign it. (Theres no reason to believe players even knew it existed until it was used to punish Brady.) Even stranger, the honor code refers to the season previous; often, teams have to track down a fired head coach or front-office executive and get them to swear to Roger Goodell that, no, they did not cheat and have no knowledge of anyone else cheating. So heres the specific rule the NFL says Tom Brady and the Patriots violated:" INTEGRITY OF THE GAME CERTIFICATION Pursuant to Section 8.13 (A) of the NFL Constitution and Bylaws, each of the undersigned certifies that on best information and belief, and after having made appropriate inquiries of persons likely to have knowledge of these matters, the ________________ (Club) complied with all League competitive policies for the 2013 season, and each of the undersigned further certifies that the Club has not engaged in any of the following prohibited acts: violations of the equity rule relating to game-day facilities, tampering with the use of any equipment properly available to an opposing team, unauthorized use of computers or electronic equipment on game day, interference with a teams or stadiums game-day communication systems, unauthorized use of game-day frequencies, unauthorized videotaping on game-day or of practices, meetings, or other organized team activities, unauthorized and/or unreported game-day use of mies on players, or electronic eavesdropping; unauthorized entry into locker rooms, coaches booths, meeting rooms or other private areas; violations of the anti-tampering policies; violations of player personnel or eligibility rules; tampering with any gameday clocks or timing equipment, or artificially increasing crowd or other noise levels in a stadium during the reporting period.* Further, each signatory hereby certifies that he or she has no knowledge of any: - betting on NFL games, of any efforts to influence or alter the outcome of any game, of any sharing of non-public information with gamblers or persons with an interest in any gambling-related enterprise, or any prohibited association with gamblers. - violation of the bounty rule, including but not limited to the offer, payment or acceptance of a bonus of any sort for on-field misconduct, play that incentivizes or may result in injury to opposing players, pay for performance or for team performance against a particular player, position group or team. - club or club employee promising, announcing or providing any form of non-contract consideration to a player in violation of the Constitution & Bylaws or Collective Bargaining Agreement. - any sale, use or distribution of substances prohibited by the NFL Policy on Anabolic Steroids and Related Substances. (No club will be deemed to have violated this aspect of the certification merely because a player violates the Policy.) Finally, each signatory further certifies that the Club has reported all actual or suspected violations that it became aware of, including actual or suspected violations committed by the Club, any club employee, or third parties. Any exceptions to the above representations are set forth on the attached page(s). (Date) (Principal Owner/CEO) (Date) (President) (Date) (General Manager) (Date) (Head Coach) * Reporting period is from February 28, 2013 to March 1, 2014." As you can read, the players didn't agree to this. The mentioned employees can offer up the guilty but that doesn't mean the punishment adheres to the players. The players are protected by a Union and we're not subject to this Certificate drawn up by the NFL. Edited September 3, 2015 by USABuffaloFan
Tuco Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 I can see a strong argument that merely having knowledge of misconduct does not subject one to penalties under that section. There is. And it was argued very successfully by the NFLPA. My response was to a poster who was stating forthright that the league could not, and did not have the authority to suspend a player for conduct detrimental, and that only the player's team could do that.
Billsmovinup Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 OJ was acquitted so Brady has good company. Would love to see him get knocked out of the game in week two by a nice clean devastating hit. If were gonna beat those clowns might as well do it while they are at their best. No Revis so Sammy should run wild.
Uffalo Ills Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 No way that would work. He'd have to get the ballboy to hire the sharp shooter so they can only prove Mario was generally aware of what was going on. Now THAT might work. It also couldn't exceed a high probability that he was generally aware. But who are we kidding, Mario could just have someone destroy the evidence ("but commish, I destroyed my old sniper rifle so I could get a new one...") and he'd be all clear anyway.
USABuffaloFan Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Goodell and the NFL has lost every arbitrated case that went to Federal Court this past year. Why is that? Why did anyone think Goodell can do what ever he wants according to federal law and individual punishments. The lawyers weren't as careful as you think for the NFL. Unless you get the NFLPA to sign off on changes and rules, they represent the individuals then in federal court, not the appeal process, the individual player has a good chance of defeating a over zealous Commisioner. This is what has been happening. The CBA is a collection of rules. Goddell and lawyers picked which rule they were going after Brady for and it did not fit the circumstances. End of story!
truth on hold Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 NFL should have known arbitrary punishment was challengeable in court. They got greedy and wanted too much power. And Goodell made it worse by grossly abusing the privilege. This is all on the NFL ... 100%
JohnC Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) There is. And it was argued very successfully by the NFLPA. My response was to a poster who was stating forthright that the league could not, and did not have the authority to suspend a player for conduct detrimental, and that only the player's team could do that. I'm aware that you were responding to another issue but I would like your opinion on the legitimacy of the judge's ruling regarding that the league, specifically Pash, a well respected and Harvard trained attorney, did not abide by the rules of discovery when he wouldn't provide his notes and respond when he was asked to answer questions during the discovery hearing? Roger Goodell, before this ruling, had arbitrators review five different disciplinary cases. All his rulings were altered by the impartial authority. This case makes it six consecutive cases that when outside authorities examined his cases they find his rulings to be very problematic. The deficient pattern is obvious. The court that the league ran to in order to uphold its ruling is known to be very supportive to arbitration rulings. Most of the legal commentators who commented on this case before the ruling felt that the league would win this case because of this court's favorable history toward arbitration decisions. The end result is that the judge not only ruled in Brady's favor but more importantly he clearly rebuked RG and the unfair process that he guided. It is acknowledged by most everyone on both sides of this issue that Roger Goodell has almost unlimited authority in disciplinary matters. He continues to find a way to screw things up in his role as the sheriff. Very often the commissioner with insufferable sanctimony preaches the importance of maintaining the integrity of the league. What he has demonstrated (to me) is that because of the capricious manner in which he conducts himself in these types of proceedings he has undercut the league's credibility on issues related to integrity. I have said it before and I will say it again that although I disagree with your take on this issue I appreciate your well reasoned and expressed point of view. I'm more ready than ever for the season to start and this manufactured legal crisis to end. How Tyrod Taylor plays is an issue that I am really more concerned with and excited over. Edited September 3, 2015 by JohnC
North Buffalo Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Paragraph 15 of the NFL Player Contract says they do. 15. INTEGRITY OF GAME. Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that would result from impairment of public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of NFL games or the integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he accepts a bribe or agrees to throw or fix an NFL game; fails to promptly report a bribe offer or an attempt to throw or fix an NFL game; bets on an NFL game; knowingly associates with gamblers or gambling activity; uses or provides other players with stimulants or other drugs for the purpose of attempting to enhance on-field performance; or is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract. The problem here is two fold, the NFL had only circumstantial evidence, couldnt demand his cell, they are not a legal authority thus Brady had no obligation to make it available, so the obstruction charges after they concluded the investigation are bogus even though what Brady did is BS. Finally all QBs manipulate balls drag them scuff them etc and work with some sort of air pressure so enforce this rule with no previous history of enforcement or standard to enforce is bs imo normal law enforcement has known enforcement standards andvwhen broken they get in trouble so really this has been fun and while i think Brady is an arrogant prick so is the NFL and I luv seeing them pitted against each other. Now uf only whaley could be added to that mess I would be really happy.
MattM Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 After reading most of the opinion on the way home, I agree with the poster's above that the decision ridiculously seems to say, basically, that since the CBA didn't explicitly say the Brady could be suspended for having ball boys steal game balls and deflate them, you can't suspend him for that. So, in other words, unless your CBA is the size of the NYC phone book, you really aren't likely yo be able to punish creative cheaters. Belichick* is going to run wild with this.....
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