The Dean Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 Been thinking on this topic some and curious if most would still use the term faking if the situation is "cleared by team doctors but genuinely concerned about his health in what might be a paranoid manner" Essentially, if he genuinely believes it, is it faking in your book? First of all, I'd lose the "paranoid manner". And I wouldn't use the term "faking it", if all I knew was that he was cleared by a doctor. C'mmon. The NFL is littered with stories of guys who have been cleared by team doctors when they shouldn't have been. I also have personal experience in having physical troubles that doctors were unable to diagnose---and some denied. Only years later am I finding out I indeed had these legit issues. So, no without direct evidence, I wouldn't use the term "faking it". But would I want to pay a guy like this to play football for my team? No.
bbb Posted September 4, 2015 Posted September 4, 2015 It was a friggin meniscus tear, not an ACL, achilles, broken leg, etc.
bbb Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 I clicked on this article to see how long this guy would be out: Arizona linebacker Scooby Wright had a procedure Saturday to clean up a lateral meniscus tear in his left knee and, optimistically, could return for Pac-12 play, a source with knowledge of the situation told SI.com. http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/09/05/scooby-wright-arizona-wildcats-injury-return
Doc Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 I guess that answers the question of "Scooby, Scooby Wright, where are you?"
Saxum Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 Been thinking on this topic some and curious if most would still use the term faking if the situation is "cleared by team doctors but genuinely concerned about his health in what might be a paranoid manner" Essentially, if he genuinely believes it, is it faking in your book? If he does not give back signing bonus yes, First of all, I'd lose the "paranoid manner". And I wouldn't use the term "faking it", if all I knew was that he was cleared by a doctor. C'mmon. The NFL is littered with stories of guys who have been cleared by team doctors when they shouldn't have been. I also have personal experience in having physical troubles that doctors were unable to diagnose---and some denied. Only years later am I finding out I indeed had these legit issues. So, no without direct evidence, I wouldn't use the term "faking it". But would I want to pay a guy like this to play football for my team? No. I twisted my ankle once, wrapped it (I was on the road for work) and by the time I got back from trip ankle was fine. Two years later I have issue to point I could not use foot at times and once while driving I needed to use left foot to drive. Over 5 doctors later I see doctor who said it is all in my head, Next doctor says I have planters and put my foot in boot; it gets MUCH worse and he says that should not happen and had MRI ordered. He found a cyst the size of a golf ball in my ankle and it grew all around bones, tendons, etc. I went to doctor who said it was in my head and dropped a report on front counter telling him he missed cyst and called him a quack in front of staff and patients. Had surgery to fix it; not perfect since I was told that body grew around cyst wrong but I can use ankle. Never trust doctors completely (misdiagnosed as grand mal epilepsy as teenager ending my football dreams) but if doctors have cleared him and he can not play he should give back signing bonus.
TSOL Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 If he does not give back signing bonus yes, I twisted my ankle once, wrapped it (I was on the road for work) and by the time I got back from trip ankle was fine. Two years later I have issue to point I could not use foot at times and once while driving I needed to use left foot to drive. Over 5 doctors later I see doctor who said it is all in my head, Next doctor says I have planters and put my foot in boot; it gets MUCH worse and he says that should not happen and had MRI ordered. He found a cyst the size of a golf ball in my ankle and it grew all around bones, tendons, etc. I went to doctor who said it was in my head and dropped a report on front counter telling him he missed cyst and called him a quack in front of staff and patients. Had surgery to fix it; not perfect since I was told that body grew around cyst wrong but I can use ankle. Never trust doctors completely (misdiagnosed as grand mal epilepsy as teenager ending my football dreams) but if doctors have cleared him and he can not play he should give back signing bonus. Lovely story, Mark Twain, but its a SIGNING BONUS! It's for signing his contract, not for playing. His salary is for playing, so by your twisted logic, that's what he should give back. Which he shouldn't do, and won't ever do, and no court of law in the Good Ole US of A would ever even attempt to make him do. But carry on...
The Dean Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 If he does not give back signing bonus yes, I twisted my ankle once, wrapped it (I was on the road for work) and by the time I got back from trip ankle was fine. Two years later I have issue to point I could not use foot at times and once while driving I needed to use left foot to drive. Over 5 doctors later I see doctor who said it is all in my head, Next doctor says I have planters and put my foot in boot; it gets MUCH worse and he says that should not happen and had MRI ordered. He found a cyst the size of a golf ball in my ankle and it grew all around bones, tendons, etc. I went to doctor who said it was in my head and dropped a report on front counter telling him he missed cyst and called him a quack in front of staff and patients. Had surgery to fix it; not perfect since I was told that body grew around cyst wrong but I can use ankle. Never trust doctors completely (misdiagnosed as grand mal epilepsy as teenager ending my football dreams) but if doctors have cleared him and he can not play he should give back signing bonus. I bet his agent would have something to say about that. He ain't giving back his commission. And I tend to agree the signing bonus is for signing, but with an understanding you are going to play. So, if he says he is totally done with football, due to him not feeling healthy enough to play, he could consider returning some of the bonus. I don't think it is an unprecedented move. But if the injury is football related, he has no obligation to return it, IMO. And I certainly wouldn't consider the team doctor the ultimate judge in a situation like this. If there is a real dispute about his health, you can get some outside medical opinions. But again, even if he is a bit injured, I'd prefer to have guys who want to play injured, and you have to make them take the time to heal.
Dragonborn10 Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 Lovely story, Mark Twain, but its a SIGNING BONUS! It's for signing his contract, not for playing. His salary is for playing, so by your twisted logic, that's what he should give back. Which he shouldn't do, and won't ever do, and no court of law in the Good Ole US of A would ever even attempt to make him do. But carry on... Hmmm... not so sure about that. After Barry Sanders retired unexpectedly teams have added language to contracts to protect them from a player getting the signing bonus and riding off into the sunset for non-injury related issues. Sometimes it just affects the teams's salary cap other times it affects actual money paid or repaid to/from the player.
Freddie's Dead Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 It's Jarius Bird, let's get it right.
TSOL Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Hmmm... not so sure about that. After Barry Sanders retired unexpectedly teams have added language to contracts to protect them from a player getting the signing bonus and riding off into the sunset for non-injury related issues. Sometimes it just affects the teams's salary cap other times it affects actual money paid or repaid to/from the player.The Byrdman, and the money, have flown the coop. If there an obscure contact clause saying otherwise, that's exactly what it is, obscure. I'm no lawyer, I'm not an expert in the finer points of sports contract technicalities. My guess would be that it would be quite a legal proceeding to get the Byrdman to give back the money, unless he's just, Saintly. Pun intended. Edited September 7, 2015 by mastershake
Doc Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 If a player retires early, a team can go after the remainder of his signing bonus. I expect the Saints to do just that.
TSOL Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 (edited) Last years signing bonus he got 11 mil, and 1.3 mil base salary. This year 6 mil roster bonus, making up the 18.3 he's walked away with there. If he retires today, which part of that would they be able to go after? The 6 million, I would have to guess. If he's on the 53 man roster, plays a game, then retires, I don't see how they could go after it. He may be dumb, but he ain't stupid. I bet, if he got his 6 million dollar check this year, he's not giving it back. Not to mention, he would, no doubt, claim its due to a football related injury. I mean, it sounds like he's already setting that up. Closest thing I could find related is this. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/3/17/8232231/should-the-49ers-go-after-chris-borlands-signing-bonus&ved=0CB8QFjAAahUKEwi-0P6bhuTHAhVEcz4KHYt4A_I&usg=AFQjCNEZ3BWKjJ5E14ykYbiwUrCOXXbpFg Edited September 7, 2015 by mastershake
Doc Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Like the link says, if Byrd were to retire today, the Saints can go after the $8.8M prorated signing bonus. Maybe even the $6M roster bonus. Most likely though he doesn't decide to retire until next off-season so he can get that $6M roster bonus and another $2.2M in signing bonus, plus his base salary of $2M. $10.2M for not playing for a year. Gotta love it.
TSOL Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Then there's this. From the CBA: Forfeitable Breach. Any player who (i) willfully fails to report, practice or play with the result that the player’s ability to fully participate and contribute to the team is substantially undermined (for example, without limitation, holding out or leaving the squad absent a showing of extreme personal hardship); or (ii) is unavailable to the team due to conduct by him that results in his incarceration; or (iii) is unavailable to the team due to a nonfootball injury that resulted from a material breach of Paragraph 3 of his NFL Player Contract; or (iv) voluntarily retires (collectively, any “Forfeitable Breach”) may be required to forfeit signing bonus, roster bonus, option bonus and/or reporting bonus, and no other Salary, for each League Year in which a Forfeitable Breach occurs (collectively, “Forfeitable Salary Allocations”) Retirement. Should a Forfeitable Breach occur due to player’s retirement, a Club may demand repayment of all Forfeitable Salary Allocations attributable to the proportionate amount, if any, for the present year and the Forfeitable Salary Allocations for future years. If the player fails to repay such amounts, then the Club may seek an award from the System Arbitrator pursuant to Article 15, for repayment of all Forfeit-able Salary Allocations attributable to present and future years. Repayment of Forfeitable Salary Allocations attributable to future League Years must be made by June 1st of each League Year for which each Forfeitable Salary Allocation is attributable. If the player returns to play for the Club in the subsequent season, then the Club must either (a) take the player back under his existing contract with no forfeiture of the remaining Forfeitable Salary Allocations, or (b) release the player and seek repayment of any remaining Forfeitable Salary Allocations for future League Years. Also, this is in the standard contract: Unless this contract specifically provides otherwise, if Player becomes a member of the Armed Forces of the United States or any other country, or retires from professional football as an active player, or otherwise fails or refuses to perform his services under this contract, then this contract will be tolled between the date of Player’s induction into the Armed Forces, or his retirement, or his failure or refusal to perform, and the later date of his return to professional football. During the period this contract is tolled, Player will not be entitled to any compensation or benefits. On Player’s return to professional football, the term of this contract will be extended for a period of time equal to the number of seasons (to the nearest multiple of one) remaining at the time the contract was tolled. The right of renewal, if any, contained in this contract will remain in effect until the end of any such extended term.
TSOL Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Wrong. Plenty of players have needed to repay signing bonuses when they retired early. The 18.3 is gone man, they're not getting it back, he's on the active roster and unless he retires mid season, the money is gone. Are you expecting him to retire mid season?
Ralonzo Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 It's Jarius Bird, let's get it right. Tell me you're not talking about Jerryus Bryd?
Felonious Monk Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 The ballhawk It was a long time ago and I could be wrong, but didn't he have like 8 INTs in 3 games his rookie year? I seem to recall at least half being tipped balls that went right to him. After that his moniker became "ball hawk." He's a diva and I'm not fond of divas in sports. I wasn't sad to see him go. Now I wasn't on the board back then and obviously didn't take a public stand. So I it's easy to say that I wasn't sad to see him go, true or not. But -- As a diehard Mets fan -- I'm watching the Matt Harvey debacle with disgust. I hope they trade his a$$ first chance they're offered something decent. Players who try to hold their teams hostage through their (or their agents') antics can play elsewhere.
jr1 Posted September 7, 2015 Posted September 7, 2015 Tim Graham will write about him being a victim soon
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