Fred Says Whaley Dishonest With Him

[RalphOP83]

So are you arguing that Sales should have final say over roster decisions? I thought you didn't want Russ Brandon involved in personnel decisions?

Fred's personal deal with M&T is much different than M&T having a sponsorship deal with the organization

[Dibs]

I shouldn't have used #1 nod that was the wrong term(its late). And I was trying conveying for his prospective as that was the post's context I was taking from. See my comment to Kelly's post @Posted Today, 12:07 AM.

No worries on that. I think however you are reading more into that string of events(RB starting nods and RB acquisitions) than what was actually there. As I see it, we had a 1st round RB who was starting....Fred was an UDFA. The 1st rounder faltered so Fred took the reigns. The new HC Gailey was not convinced that Fred could do what he wanted(and/or he fell in love with CJ) so he drafted another 1st round RB. Fred then showed that he actually could do the job, and held the 1st rounder out of the starting role for 2 more seasons....till he got injured. After that the team went with the multi-back philosophy sharing the starting job with Fred and CJ for several more seasons(which was shown to be very beneficial to both RBs).

 

I see nothing that points to FJ being unjustly overlooked through his career....apart from maybe his very early years where he had much to prove.

 

Side note: Time stamps aren't any good as people are in different time zones(Melbourne Australia here). Post number works best I find.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's not a hiccup...there is a difference between M&T sponsoring the Bills, and M&T hiring Fred to an endorsement deal...there is no way the team's business decisions require notice to a company that hires a player to an endorsement deal

Using players, in whatever sport, as spokespeople comes with the inherent risk that said player won't get cut or traded. If anything M&T was pretty naive to think a 34 year old running back was a lock to make the team. The blunders of M&T's ad agency and marketing department are not a concern for Doug Whaley. It would be a worse look if it were.

Fred's personal deal with M&T is much different than M&T having a sponsorship deal with the organization

See above.

Edited September 2, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[RalphOP83]

Using players, in whatever sport, as spokespeople comes with the inherent risk that said player won't get cut or traded. If anything M&T was pretty naive to think a 34 year old running back was a lock to make the team. The blunders of M&T's ad agency and marketing department are not a concern for Doug Whaley. It would be a worse look if it were.

 

See above.

Yeah... I was agreeing with u... Hit the wrong quote button

[Kelly the Dog]

C'mon Kelly. You know exactly what I mean and you know I have a point. Some guys get unlucky and some guys get lucky but everyone gets injured.

 

It's a numbers thing. Would you bet that Shady starts all 16 games this season? I wouldn't bet on any player in the NFL staving off injury, unless they weren't playing.

No. No. No. And no. Some guys are injuries waiting to happen and some guys aren't. Russell Wilson runs smart and rarely takes a big hit. He's much more likely to not get injured than RG3 who doesn't know how to avoid a hit. You could see, that Taylor knows how to avoid a hit. There are running backs like that. McCoy is one of them. They don't take a lot of full on hits. And that is why they don't get hurt as much. Freddy invites hits.

[FireChan]

No. No. No. And no. Some guys are injuries waiting to happen and some guys aren't. Russell Wilson runs smart and rarely takes a big hit. He's much more likely to not get injured than RG3 who doesn't know how to avoid a hit. You could see, that Taylor knows how to avoid a hit. There are running backs like that. McCoy is one of them. They don't take a lot of full on hits. And that is why they don't get hurt as much. Freddy invites hits.

Bet signatures on if McCoy starts all 16 games?

[GG]

So are you arguing that Sales should have final say over roster decisions? I thought you didn't want Russ Brandon involved in personnel decisions?

Let's say you own a radio station and your program director sits in a staff meeting with the sales department and finds out you just landed a big advertiser who he doesn't like. So the next day, right before the campaign starts, he tells the Djs to trash the advertiser on the air.

 

Now, he's a very good program director and he doesn't care about what the sales department does.

 

But, don't tell me that days won't be wasted by you trying to make amends and making sure that if he decides to pull crap like that in the future, you would like a little heads up.

[RalphOP83]

Using players, in whatever sport, as spokespeople comes with the inherent risk that said player won't get cut or traded. If anything M&T was pretty naive to think a 34 year old running back was a lock to make the team. The blunders of M&T's ad agency and marketing department are not a concern for Doug Whaley. It would be a worse look if it were.

 

See above.

As I said... When I was with M&T Ray Rice was quickly dropped from all print... Didn't effect/threaten stadium naming rights

[Kelly the Dog]

That's my conjecture.

Going rogue is a serious accusation, and if true, it is a big deal from any angle.

If Graham lied about it, the News should fire him on the spot. . But if he reported the truth, then it really doesn't matter who Whaley bypassed in the normal chain. It won't end well for him.

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Why would he do that? He's surely not an ego guy.

[GG]

BTW, let's get off the tangent of Freddie vs McCoy. That's not who Freddie was competing against

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

So you are quoting maybe the worst GM in Bills history?

 

In the 20 years that TSW (and before that Hyperbills) has been around I can say without the slightest doubt that fans are increasingly better informed.

:lol: :lol:

Edited September 2, 2015 by PromoTheRobot

[Lurker]

Freddy invites hits.

To be fair, most of FJ's problems in recent years have been related to his body breaking down (groin, hamstring, etc) rather than outright hits.

 

It's an open question whether the same thing will happen to Shady...

[Kelly the Dog]

Bet signatures on if McCoy starts all 16 games?

I don't know if he will or he won't. I don't bet stuff that I don't think I know. But he hasn't been injury prone. You know who has? Fred Jackson.

 

And again, if it were up to me, for sentimental and emotional reasons, I would have kept Fred. I don't think not having him hurts us.

[RalphOP83]

Let's say you own a radio station and your program director sits in a staff meeting with the sales department and finds out you just landed a big advertiser who he doesn't like. So the next day, right before the campaign starts, he tells the Djs to trash the advertiser on the air.

 

Now, he's a very good program director and he doesn't care about what the sales department does.

 

But, don't tell me that days won't be wasted by you trying to make amends and making sure that if he decides to pull crap like that in the future, you would like a little heads up.

M&T pays the Bills as a sponsor (box seats, use of logo, official bank of the bills, sign up for M&T card)

 

M&T pays Fred to do commercials

 

Separate deals

[Lurker]

Let's say you own a radio station and your program director sits in a staff meeting with the sales department and finds out you just landed a big advertiser who he doesn't like. So the next day, right before the campaign starts, he tells the Djs to trash the advertiser on the air.

 

Now, he's a very good program director and he doesn't care about what the sales department does.

 

But, don't tell me that days won't be wasted by you trying to make amends and making sure that if he decides to pull crap like that in the future, you would like a little heads up.

Best to call it an evening, you're going off the rails...

[GG]

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Why would he do that? He's surely not an ego guy.

I agree that it doesn't make sense. But why would two sources claim that he went rogue?

 

Again if Graham made the story up, he should be fired because that's a serious allegation.

[RuntheDamnBall]

It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Why would he do that? He's surely not an ego guy.

Do you mean Whaley?

 

I'm certain on some level, all of these guys are "ego" guys. But if he's whom you're referring to, yes, he seems like less of one.

 

I have little to base this on but I trust Graham less than Whaley, even if I somewhat believe Fred.

 

Here's what I'm going to bet Fred is referring to:

 

I would make a healthy wager that when Fred signed his contract last year, that Whaley asserted that he wanted Fred to retire as a Bill.

 

After all this went down, Fred recognized that as a pleasantry and not a vow.

 

Whaley cut Fred knowing that it was not going to be a popular or easy decision, and it was one that was made with a lot of back-and-forth on Rex's part and on his own.

 

That's just my best guess. No basis in reporting or sources.

[FireChan]

I don't know if he will or he won't. I don't bet stuff that I don't think I know. But he hasn't been injury prone. You know who has? Fred Jackson.

 

And again, if it were up to me, for sentimental and emotional reasons, I would have kept Fred. I don't think not having him hurts us.

I never said he was injury prone. I said that I think it's a fair concern that a running back in the NFL may get hurt on his way to 900 careers in 3 years. You seem to disagree.

[GG]

M&T pays the Bills as a sponsor (box seats, use of logo, official bank of the bills, sign up for M&T card)

 

M&T pays Fred to do commercials

 

Separate deals

Does Fred wear his Bills Jersey in the ad? If he does, the Bills are involved

[PromoTheRobot]

Let's say you own a radio station and your program director sits in a staff meeting with the sales department and finds out you just landed a big advertiser who he doesn't like. So the next day, right before the campaign starts, he tells the Djs to trash the advertiser on the air.

 

Now, he's a very good program director and he doesn't care about what the sales department does.

 

But, don't tell me that days won't be wasted by you trying to make amends and making sure that if he decides to pull crap like that in the future, you would like a little heads up.

It's ironic that you use a radio station analogy since I managed radio stations for a couple of decades. Dealing with sales was a big part of the job and a week didn't go by where some clod from sales promised a client something that went against programming policy.

 

The bad stations I worked for kowtowed to the whims of the client. The good stations told me I was in charge of programming and if I set a policy sales had to respect it. After all the programming, and ultimately the ratings, were my measuring stick.

 

So if cutting Fred opened a can of f##k-all for the Bills marketing department, that's a pity. But it's not part of Doug Whaley's job description. It's Russ Brandon's job to soothe the clients, not Doug's.

Edited September 2, 2015 by PromoTheRobot