thebandit27 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 This was a pretty popular thread I started last year to discuss OL play, so I figured I'd bring it back for the 2015 season. The gist of it is that I follow along with Ben Muth's column on Football Outsiders ("Word of Muth"), since he does a great job of explaining intricacies in terms of technique, scheme, etc. He played OT and OG at Stanford, and writes columns for several outlets now. Here's last season's version of the thread: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/171228-the-finer-points-of-ol-play/ And here's Ben's intro to this year's column: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-2015-season-preview Some things I found interesting and am looking forward to following: Denver "I'm interested to see if two of the best offensive minds of the past 20 years can make a less heralded group of guys up front look like killers -- and how some of Peyton Manning's recent physical limitations will match with what Kubiak likes to do (lots of zone stretches with boots and half-boots off of them)." Ditto for me. I've always felt that the QB has a lot more of an effect on the OL than vice versa. Dallas "There isn't one block in that GIF that blows you away, but everyone covers up their guys and the back picked up 10 yards before a defender touched him" Ben loves to point out that dominant play in the NFL is not burying blockers; it's simply doing your job just a bit better than the guy across from you. Not much more to add at this point other than I am once again looking forward to this column for 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Thanks for sharing! Enjoy these in-depth reads. Funny they use the Browns, showing Joe Thomas handle Jerry Hughes in that one gif. That one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 17, 2015 Author Share Posted September 17, 2015 Ben chronicles Denver's Week 1 struggles versus Baltimore: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-denvers-rough-start Some takeaways: - I find it interesting that Denver's problems appear to be 180-degrees opposite to Buffalo's. Whereas the Bills' struggles seemed to be symptomatic of miscommunication up front, Denver's appear to be physical in nature... "Paradis looked overwhelmed physically at the line of scrimmage again and again, to the point where it was difficult to judge much about his game from a technique standpoint. It's hard to worry about a guy's footwork or hand placement when he's 2 yards deep in the backfield on seemingly 25 percent of your running plays...You may also notice that left tackle Ty Sambrailo is in the backfield too, and that certainly contributes to the play going nowhere. Sambrailo is a rookie so he was making his first start as well. After one quarter I would have put him in the same boat as Paradis in terms of quality of play. Sambrailo got bull rushed too easily early and looked like he was starting to overcompensate and lunge at guys in pass pro" - I was also kind of appalled at how bad Evan Mathis looked in those final 2 GIFs. Ben surmises that it's rust that needs to be knocked off...if so, fine. If not, looks like a lot of teams were right not to make a trade for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) This was a pretty popular thread I started last year to discuss OL play, so I figured I'd bring it back for the 2015 season. Ben loves to point out that dominant play in the NFL is not burying blockers; it's simply doing your job just a bit better than the guy across from you. Thanks Bandit, will be looking forward to it. The "not burying blockers" point is relevant for those who posted about McCoy "whiffing" on a block. In the play in question, he didn't sacrifice his body, true, nor did he pancake the defender a la Freddy J with JJ Watt. But he did just enough to interfere for just long enough to let the play happen, which did the job that needed to be done. Here's his post-week1 column http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-denvers-rough-startfocused on Denver. Love this assessment of Paradis: There are some technical flaws -- he's playing too high (notice his head snapping back at the snap) and his first step doesn't gain enough ground so he's behind the play. But really, the coaching point is "don't get your ass kicked." Edited September 17, 2015 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 This was a pretty popular thread I started last year to discuss OL play, so I figured I'd bring it back for the 2015 season. The gist of it is that I follow along with Ben Muth's column on Football Outsiders ("Word of Muth"), since he does a great job of explaining intricacies in terms of technique, scheme, etc. He played OT and OG at Stanford, and writes columns for several outlets now. Here's last season's version of the thread: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/171228-the-finer-points-of-ol-play/ And here's Ben's intro to this year's column: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-2015-season-preview Some things I found interesting and am looking forward to following: Denver "I'm interested to see if two of the best offensive minds of the past 20 years can make a less heralded group of guys up front look like killers -- and how some of Peyton Manning's recent physical limitations will match with what Kubiak likes to do (lots of zone stretches with boots and half-boots off of them)." Ditto for me. I've always felt that the QB has a lot more of an effect on the OL than vice versa. Dallas "There isn't one block in that GIF that blows you away, but everyone covers up their guys and the back picked up 10 yards before a defender touched him" Ben loves to point out that dominant play in the NFL is not burying blockers; it's simply doing your job just a bit better than the guy across from you. Not much more to add at this point other than I am once again looking forward to this column for 2015. That's what I'm hoping for from the Bills OL this year. Well-designed run plays with every lineman covering his guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 A few great vines from Matt Bowen (now of ESPN Insider)... https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/77E342BE9D1258295620679380992_31d4fb24843.2.1.3635625670194012864.mp4?versionId=FR7ah4cKMJijKNEqXO2p6JvDSlZJgYHl ^ Check out LG #77 Shawn Lauvao. He gets his initial rub on the DT's shoulder to complete the double-team, but the impressive part is that he's able to re-direct and reach the run blitzer coming in untouched; that's the difference between a 1-yard loss and a huge play. https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/68A255FC0D1258291453424500736_31d296ecfd2.2.1.8956444001358337135.mp4?versionId=yQN_fIrqb0wcSaGhCZmIxj2GZVRZnDcZ ^ Bowen points out the great work by Scherff (#75 RG), which is all the more impressive given that the center, Lichtensteiger, got caught overextending and nearly clipped Scherff in the back. https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/1C4A3532A01258286974600151040_3f259968e19.2.1.4513189164109398249.mp4?versionId=at4eHRlKTWC7U5Nz.KORYvtZXcWS3ZI_ ^ Another great job by Lauvao. LT Trent Williams whiffs on Chris Long (DL91), giving him a free lane to the backfield. If Lauvao doesn't bury the edge defender into the dirt, Jones is easily dropped in the backfield. Again, notice how thin the line between big loss and huge TD run is in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Cian Fahey highlights the Eagle's struggles along the OL... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2015/film-room-philadelphias-struggles Missed assignments are killing them. Just one guy covering up his defender would be making a huge difference in the run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 24, 2015 Author Share Posted September 24, 2015 Ben's column on the Browns this week... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-cleveland-rocks Items of note... From play #1: "Mack knows how the defense is aligned and knows that 93 percent of the time the play is going to go back-side, so what he does makes sense (and may even be coached), but he's predetermining the running back's read and is essentially making it a cutback-or-nothing play. If he can cover that nose tackle up, there's the possibility of a two-way go." ^ This is an interesting note about dominating versus simply getting the job done, but it also highlights the fact that the run game is so much about the OL and the RB being on the same page. From play #2: "It takes power to play in the NFL, but it takes technique to last." ^ Makes me believe that the OL only stands to get better once Kromer returns. Play #3 has another great note about cohesiveness between the RB and the OL: "The key here is that you want to cover your man up and let the back make you right in the end. Thomas takes a good first step inside (you can't get beat across your face on the back side of inside zone) and slows up a bit to get facemask-to-facemask with the defensive end. Then he just keeps fighting down the line with him, trying to give the back a two-way go. The back does a great job of giving a little head-fake out the back door, which causes the defensive end to peek outside, and then the back cuts right off of Thomas' block. That cut is why your first hope on inside zone is to cover guys up -- it allows the back to make you look great." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Back to Dallas for this week's column: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-cowboys-growing-pains If anyone still doubts that it takes both quality OL play and solid RB play, along with cohesive timing, to put together a good running game, look at play 2... "That is the ugliest 37-yard touchdown run you'll ever see. Both the right tackle (Doug Free) and the right guard (Zack Martin) got beat inside by slanting defensive linemen. I think the Falcons' line movement caused some problems for Dallas all day. The center gets picked off by the slanting defensive tackle and is late getting up to the Mike, so he's behind the block. The left guard (La'el Collins, making his first start) gets tripped up and ends up stumbling around like a drunk on payday. And the left tackle (Tyron Smith) doesn't block anyone and quits on the play early. The only guys that really block anyone are Jason Witten, who kicks the hell out of a rolled up safety, and the fullback Tyler Clutts, who does a good job of cleaning up Free's mess. That's a great job by Witten, and a great job by Randle to make some tacklers miss, but man is that ugly from the guys up front." And play 3 for that matter... "This is a weak outside zone that is blocked OK. Doug Free gets knocked too far into the backfield, and Travis Frederick is behind his block (and also too far in the backfield), but Randle screws up his read and misses the hole. On this play Randle has a pretty simple read. He looks at the defensive end; if it doesn't look like Free has him absolutely hooked early on, then Randle needs to get his eyes to the defensive tackle. If the center is covering him up (like he should be), you have a two-way go off the center's block, if you see color to the play side, you stick your foot in the ground and cut right off his ass. That's what Randle needed to do, stick his foot in the ground and explode right off Frederick's block." Also, an interesting note about why zone schemes can be difficult to learn: "The thing about outside zone is that it's tough to get a good look during practice because most teams don't allow their linemen to cut block in camp or practices, so the backs can't get used to what it's going to feel like hitting the hole right as guys get cut. In practice it's just a mass of bodies too often." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Blocking, brought to you by.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Back to Denver for the Week 4 breakdown... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-rocky-mountain-sigh A gem right off the bat: "There are really only two reasons that offensive lines struggle: lack of talent and lack of chemistry. Usually, when things are really bad, it's both." ^ This point is so important. I think most of Buffalo's struggles (though they haven't been bad overall) stem from lack of chemistry. I'm really hoping that Kromer will have them on the same page when he comes back. The first play in the article highlights something Buffalo really struggled with last season: "Watching Denver play, it's not that individual guys are getting beat a ton, it's that guys are struggling to pass defenders between them in combination blocks in the running game, and handing off stunts in the passing game" The second play offers a nice technique note on playing OT: "Knowing he's man-to-man with the defensive end and has a three-technique inside, the No. 1 thing he needs to be conscious of is a twist. That means he needs to set vertically, straight back, to try to stay in line with his guard. By sliding out towards the end, he's creating rush lanes that can put him on separate levels from Vasquez." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I've got to tell you, Muth's is one of my favorite columns. An absolute must read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 Ben goes back to Dallas for Week 5 review... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-hope-dallas Items of note... An opening statement about the cohesion required between the OL and skill positions, with which I fervently agree: "When a young quarterback gets pounded behind a terrible offensive line, people are generally pretty forgiving of whatever shortcomings he may show (see Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, and Ryan Tannehill). Or when a wide receiver is playing with a bad quarterback, some drop in production is expected (see Larry Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson for the last few years). But when an offensive line is playing with the worst assortment of skill talent in the league (and without Romo, Dez Bryant, and Lance Dunbar, the Cowboys skill talent is in that discussion) that line is expected to produce exactly like it did the year before when the linemen had far better talent surrounding them?" Or, perhaps said more succinctly in the next paragraph: "It's tough to look good when running backs are only getting what's blocked and nothing more. And it's tough to look good when not a single defender on the field is concerned with getting the ball thrown over his head." First play, a key note about why just reaching the defender isn't enough (are you listening, John Miller?): "By totally covering up the color of the defender, you give the back a two-way go instead of dictating the hole to him. Here, the two-way go was especially necessary because the Cowboys had a miscommunication with whether to count a rolled up safety as a linebacker (Witten and Free counted him, Frederick didn't), so the play-side linebacker went unblocked. Because Martin did such a great job, Joseph Randle could peek in the A-gap, draw the defender in, and then bounce it to the B-gap." Second play, a killer combo block by Zack Martin: "Martin completely crumples the defensive tackle inside and leaves Travis Frederick with the easiest reach block of all time, then he goes and collects the linebacker. Great technique and strength by Martin." I'm hopeful that, with improved technique, Miller can develop into a similar player. The strength is there; not sure about the athleticism to pull like Martin does though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 It's really great stuff. I think we tend to simplify the job of offensive linemen as just the concept of "block the guy in front of you." But there are so many nuances to blocking and scheme that we don't usually pay attention to or see. It's so rare to see all eleven guys do everything they're supposed to do, but when it happens it's a thing of beauty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Ben chronicles Cleveland's OL in his Week 6 wrap-up: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-browns-wasted-effort Items of note... First play, I love that Ben points this out: "Watching live, it probably seemed like the Broncos got some pressure and threw Josh McCown off his rhythm. But from this angle, I’m seeing Cleveland’s O-line pick up a tough five-man blitz with a five-man protection. There’s no safety net here, it takes each guy doing a good job and great cohesion to make sure everyone is picked up." As fans, we hear this kind of thing all the time. "The OL was allowing pressure all day!" Were they? A second look says not as often as you might think. Also from the first play, an excellent technique note: "What I love about Mack is how quickly he gets depth to get to the same level as his guards. Because the rest of the linemen line up a little off the ball, it’s up to the center to get quick depth so the interior line forms a wall that can pass off twists and stunts. Mack’s first kick step gets that depth immediately." ^ I'll be watching for this from now on...I'm way guilty of assuming that any time the center gains depth, it's because he's been rocked back into the hole. Second play brings another note about the cohesion between the OL and the RB: "Look at the size of the hole the back has to make one man miss. When the back hits the numbers, he has about 7 yards of space to make the defensive back miss. You need to get more out of plays like this." Look at Greco pulling on the third play...if he follows his assignment all the way outside and covers up the edge defender, this would be a big-gainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Catching up a bit.... First up is week 7, where Ben looks at Dallas' performance against the Giants. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-dallas-dominates Great note on the first play related to the amount of effort it takes center Travis Frederick to make what looks like only a marginally-effective block: "Frederick's block isn't as dominating, but it might be tougher. He has to reach a shaded nose tackle (a tightly shaded one, but shaded none the less) and does it perfectly. He gets to the defender's outside shoulder quickly, fights to stay square to the line of scrimmage so he doesn't dictate to the back where to run, and even gets a yard or so of movement off the ball, which is really rare on this type of block. Just a real solid professional football play." Second play, enlightening note about double-teams: "Everyone thinks double-teams are two behemoths just getting nasty and WANTING IT more, but that's not the case. Here all four guys do a really nice job of getting hip to hip before making any contact. You don't want to hit the defender at two different angles if you're trying to drive them straight back like the Cowboys are here. That's how double-teams get split, or you end up pushing against each other like Detective Herc and Carver trying to move a desk in The Wire. (Think that was the first Wire reference in this column's history. I'm finally ready for the big time.) You need to build a human snowplow before driving forward if you want to get consistent movement." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 And now back to Cleveland for Week 9... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-browns-step-back Good note about footwork and hand placement on play one: "When he slides inside his feet are completely even with each other so he doesn't have a ton of power (ideally you want a bit of a stagger so you have a brace leg). His hands are too wide and he's catching the defender instead of delivering a blow. It's just a bad football play." Funny note on the final play: "Here is one of the best left tackles of all time and a no doubt Hall of Famer, chasing a defensive end all over the field (he probably should have been flagged for an illegal man downfield), trying to play patty cake with him. It's a good reminder that no matter how good you are as a football player or an athlete, playing offensive line will make you look like a goof occasionally." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I would really like some good analysis like this on our rookie OG Miller Im trying to guage what his actual celing is as a player.....if we can look forward to more dependable play next year as this year he has his ups and downs as a rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 Denver's struggles chronicled this week: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2015/word-muth-mile-high-meltdown So much bad. First interesting note comes from play #1, and has to do with punch technique: "Coaches teach the inside arm-only punch as a change-up because it throws off the defender's timing, and you can stab the defender's chest before he can knock your hands down. But you typically only do it when you know the guard is sliding with you and you have inside help, because it's tough to come back on a hard inside move when you lead with the inside hand to the middle of a guy's chest." Play 3: everyone lunges and gets off balance. Badly. "Their balance ranges from "not ideal" to "drunken sailor on payday" to "drunken sailor on payday who accidentally stepped on a giant pile of marbles." " Lastly, good move not paying Evan Mathis. He's awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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