BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Oh is that your new rhetoric? a) That I winged it on Taylor before the Pittsburgh game and b) That Taylor only won the job because he was Ryan's guy all along? new rhetoric? Sorry my muddled mind was reminded of it this morning listening to sports radio. Let me use one of your responses - Answer the question. Did you infer TT was Rex's guy all along? What are the chances that the decision was make a long time ago and that the only thing that might have swayed it was EJ being light-years better than TT? 10, 25, 50, 75? TT won and I congratulated him for it. TT has some strengths while EJ other strengths.
Dibs Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 OK that's fair. Do you see what I'm saying though about a double standard round these parts? Bills fans are quick to mock and make up dopey nicknames for other QB's who have been in the league for a short period of time and haven't had their chance to develop, haven't had weapons at their disposal or exemplary coaching, yet will defend certain Bills QB's who I'm sure other teams' message boards mock just the same. Take Geno Smith and EJ Manuel for example. Just be objective is what I'm asking. But I do understand your point was ion regards to how good they might be right now vs. potential. How is it that you can see that other young QBs around the league might not be garbage because of your above reasons(short time, need to develop, no weapons, bad coaching), but up until very recently you have assessed EJ to be garbage and rejected those very same reasons?
Fan in Chicago Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 so we should spend 5m of our cap space to insure against the very specific situation of the 1 & 2 having us in the playoffs but both being hurt by the end of the season, and cassel being able to hold things together for a month without losing everything? to me that doesnt sound like optimizing limited resources. Money we will save for what exactly in this season ? If you were to know for sure that the money saved is the difference between signing or not signing Dareus next year, then may be I can agree. But we both don't know that yet. The only thing we know is that we have the money this year and that it is best spent to reduce any controllable uncertainty with respect to the playoffs. I think I have said all I wanted to say on this subject so will agree to disagree.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 I don't disagree with that post at all. Please answer the two things I did question you on though. I believe I did. Be patient.
TSOL Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) I don't get it.Rex is putting his stamp on this team, he got his guy, he cuts who he wants to cut. I dont have much more to say on the matter, im just gonna sit back and see what he makes of it. Im sure you all know who i think is the best QB in the room at this point. Im seeing alot of parroting of opinions on here, and in the media. The popular opinion is not always the right opinion Edited September 1, 2015 by mastershake
LeGOATski Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 I just can't understand that Carpenter can't do it. Carpenter can't kick as far. If they could consistently kick it <5 yards deep into the EZ and maintain good enough coverage to stop the returner at or before the 15 yard line, they'd get rid of the kick-off specialist. Might as well eliminate the risk, though.
KOKBILLS Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 i will say i think EJ in his handful of games doesnt look substantially worse than cassel in his showings the last several years. theres a reason cassel could be had for a late rounder, from a team that also has a young qb. now that we have tyrod who has stepped ahead of them both, i think it becomes an obvious choice. Very true... Maybe Cassel playing decently in preseason will allow the Bills to get something for him...But to be honest, at that cap figure, I doubt it...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 How is it that you can see that other young QBs around the league might not be garbage because of your above reasons(short time, need to develop, no weapons, bad coaching), but up until very recently you have assessed EJ to be garbage and rejected those very same reasons? :blush: man, I'd love to stay and read the reply but workus interrupt-us
LeGOATski Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 How is it that you can see that other young QBs around the league might not be garbage because of your above reasons(short time, need to develop, no weapons, bad coaching), but up until very recently you have assessed EJ to be garbage and rejected those very same reasons? Self-righteousness...hypocrisy...we're all guilty.
....lybob Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 I've never understood the attraction of a ground and pound running game paired with a short passing game QB who has an upper limited of 15yd passes - sounds like an invitation for the defense to put 8 in the box and creep everyone up- what I want to see is three power runs for the 1st down then a play action pass that goes for 40yds.
metzelaars_lives Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 new rhetoric? Sorry my muddled mind was reminded of it this morning listening to sports radio. Let me use one of your responses - Answer the question. Did you infer TT was Rex's guy all along? What are the chances that the decision was make a long time ago and that the only thing that might have swayed it was EJ being light-years better than TT? 10, 25, 50, 75? TT won and I congratulated him for it. TT has some strengths while EJ other strengths. This is what I know: As of two weeks ago, Cassel was Roman's guy and at that point, the favorite to start week 1. My suspicion is that Taylor was Ryan's guy as of a week or two ago and that was the debate. They must've loved what they saw in the Cleveland game from Taylor and that tipped the scale and Roman probably came around to the idea AND/OR Ryan said, "dude it's my call, I'm the head coach." Before the Pittsburgh game, the decision was already made. I know that EJ was not part of the equation to start within the last 2-3 weeks. Did he ever get a fair shot? I believe he did. I believe it truly was an open competition and that EJ simply fell too far behind in camp. I think it's very, very telling that even after the scrimmage (where EJ was OK and the "winner" by default), John Murphy, the biggest EJ homer of them all, said on his radio show "the other two guys really seem to be picking up this offense and getting better and I'm just not seeing it from EJ." I think you need to understand that camp very much factored into the decision as well.
LB3 Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Make fun of is one thing (still trying to push for "Trannyhill") but I'm talking about peoples' actual objective football opinions. That's the first I've seen "Trannyhill". I will say, being a Bills can can skew objectivity, but there are other factors that come into play when evaluating each individual player. Four examples. Geno Smith - I hated him when he was going into the draft. I saw him collapse in many big games in college. In those games, he'd pout and blame teammates. I never thought he'd be good. He's also a douche. Ryan Nassib - I loved him coming into the draft. He was bad his first year. They changed coordinators, and he got significantly better. I still think he'll get a shot at starting somewhere in the next couple years. I would give him time to develop. Johnny Moneyphone - I never thought he would be any good. I can't call him a bust because I didn't see his style translating. Plus, he's a douche. He's not a Bill, so I can give up on him. Worst case scenario, I'm just wrong. EJ Manuel - I liked him coming into the draft, though not as much as I liked Nassib. I saw enough things from EJ that look promising. I think he can still be a good player. Here's the thing about EJ though, he is a Bill. I think it's too early to give up on our first round draft pick. I don't think it's too early to give up on a Browns first round draft pick because, quite frankly, WGAF.
LeGOATski Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 I've never understood the attraction of a ground and pound running game paired with a short passing game QB who has an upper limited of 15yd passes - sounds like an invitation for the defense to put 8 in the box and creep everyone up- what I want to see is three power runs for the 1st down then a play action pass that goes for 40yds. Was Matt Cassel not considered to be a good play-action QB when he was brought in?
KOKBILLS Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 At this point, your scenario is way too hypothetical for me to respond to. But let me try anyway. Two injuries or one flame-out+ 1 injury could happen real quick. Depending on what point in the season that happens, yes the season may be entirely salvageable. One of the injury may be temporary enough to come back for the playoff run. I don't disagree...I just don't think NFL teams think that way...In the Bills case they have two healthy, young QB's that they likely believe they can win with...In fact I think it's important that they do feel that way...I think they lean way more towards best-case-scenario than the opposite...Just my opinion though...
metzelaars_lives Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) How is it that you can see that other young QBs around the league might not be garbage because of your above reasons(short time, need to develop, no weapons, bad coaching), but up until very recently you have assessed EJ to be garbage and rejected those very same reasons? All I have ever said (here we go again) is that I believe it is/was less than likely that EJ develops into a franchise QB. I would say the same thing about Geno Smith. My issue is with people who laugh at Smith and then defend EJ. And I certainly never called him "garbage." I, like everyone else, am pleased with his development this offseason and have already conceded that coaching may be a bigger factor in his development than I previously thought. But how come no one in the history of TBD has ever said, "well wait a second, Blaine Gabbert kind of sucked this year but let's look at why- coaching, he's a project, etc." It's always just "well Blaine Gabbert sucks." Be objective guys. Edited September 1, 2015 by metzelaars_lives
LB3 Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 All I have ever said (here we go again) is that I believe it is/was less than likely that EJ develops into a franchise QB. I would say the same thing about Geno Smith. My issue is with people who laugh at Smith and then defend EJ. And I certainly never called him "garbage." I, like everyone else, am pleased with his development this offseason and have already conceded that coaching may be a bigger factor in his development that I previously thought. But how come no one in the history of TBD has ever said, "well wait a second, Blaine Gabbert kind of sucked this year but let's look at why- coaching, he's a project, etc." It's always just "well Blaine Gabbert sucks." Be objective guys. Look up a couple posts. Re: Nassib.
NoSaint Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Money we will save for what exactly in this season ? If you were to know for sure that the money saved is the difference between signing or not signing Dareus next year, then may be I can agree. But we both don't know that yet. The only thing we know is that we have the money this year and that it is best spent to reduce any controllable uncertainty with respect to the playoffs. I think I have said all I wanted to say on this subject so will agree to disagree. Is there any reason to believe we won't be spending to the cap the next few years? It seems most are worried we are stretched to thin already.
Nanker Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 It's all about economics of the NFL - need to resign MD, NB and SG on defense and CG on offense. Enough said - MC out he door. Can not afford 4.7 million for a journeyman QB - he is Fitz, Orton, etc. - go with TT and EJ - either one can get us to the playoffs and will be less expensive combined than MC. Well, the FO @ OBD headed by DW and RR with help from GR made the call on FJ with MC TBD by EOD no doubt! I get what you are saying. Nevertheless, TT has had the benefit of learning behind Flacco in much the same way Rodgers did with Favre. EJ was thrown into the fire after Kolb got hurt. EJ is developing. He will continue to develop. Give the guy a break. That goes against some posters' DNA evidently. Other than hitting tents, camera men, etc... You say that like it's a bad thing. How many INTs did Meh have in Practice? How is it that you can see that other young QBs around the league might not be garbage because of your above reasons(short time, need to develop, no weapons, bad coaching), but up until very recently you have assessed EJ to be garbage and rejected those very same reasons? But he's one of the "realists". Everything is purely black and white... until it isn't.
metzelaars_lives Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Look up a couple posts. Re: Nassib. Yeah you are clearly one of the better posters on this website. You obviously know what I'm talking about.
Dibs Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 All I have ever said (here we go again) is that I believe it is/was less than likely that EJ develops into a franchise QB.... If that were all you had said you wouldn't have gotten so many arguments as there would be less than a handful around here who ever believed that EJ had higher than a 50% chance to become a franchise QB.
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