Alaska Darin Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 Fred doesn't make that run though Probably true and the run covered some pretty terrible clock management for a team that seemed to be playing for a field goal.
PromoTheRobot Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 Whaley really doesn't come off well in any of this. I know his apologists are fond of saying "it's business" but those who engage in deceptive business practices are generally looked down upon. I don 't get what the big deal is? Didn't Pegula nix Fred's release? Sounds like if Terry had not gotten involved, Fred would have gone to Pittsburgh. Is it Whaley lying of Terry butting in?
Alaska Darin Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 If Fred is on the roster it's less snaps for Williams. Shady will get the majority of the carries and Williams needs more reps. That wasn't a running play. Williams doesn't need pass pro reps when the game is in the balance, especially in what was really a "must win" game.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 That wasn't a running play. Williams doesn't need pass pro reps when the game is in the balance, especially in what was really a "must win" game. Of course he needs those reps. How do you think Fred got so good at blitz pickup and pass blocking in the first place? He didn't do it from the bench, he did it from the field. It's the only way for Williams to get the real time, game reps needed.
Alaska Darin Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 I was just talking, only the first sentence was for you.So you're smarter but can't make a simple point without coming off like a retard? Got it. Of course he needs those reps. How do you think Fred got so good at blitz pickup and pass blocking in the first place? He didn't do it from the bench, he did it from the field. It's the only way for Williams to get the real time, game reps needed. Wrong. Taylor sat his ass on the bench for years and learned the toughest job in sports. FJ was an excellent blocker when got here because of his time in NFLE. Williams is going to be a liability on a team that doesn't have that luxury.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 Wrong. Taylor sat his ass on the bench for years and learned the toughest job in sports. But Taylor wasn't good enough to beat Flacco, Williams is better right now than Fred at virtually everything else BUT pass blocking. And I'd argue the only time the game was really in doubt was before the opening kickoff. The Bills dominated them, it was the perfect time to put your rookie RB into the game.
Beef Jerky Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 So you're smarter but can't make a simple point without coming off like a retard? Got it. Wrong. Taylor sat his ass on the bench for years and learned the toughest job in sports. You have a problem understanding my posts... Whatever.Let everyone else tell you you're wrong.
FireChan Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 But Taylor wasn't good enough to beat Flacco, Williams is better right now than Fred at virtually everything else BUT pass blocking. And I'd argue the only time the game was really in doubt was before the opening kickoff. The Bills dominated them, it was the perfect time to put your rookie RB into the game. The game would have been in doubt if that tipped pass was picked for 6. You know, the play where Karlos was absolutely brutal in pass pro.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 The game would have been in doubt if that tipped pass was picked for 6. You know, the play where Karlos was absolutely brutal in pass pro. I still don't think so. The Bills were in total control of that game from the opening whistle. He's going to make mistakes in pass protection, most rookies do. He's also going to make more explosive plays than Fred would (imo). The explosive plays will outnumber the mistakes, that's the gamble but with his skill it's worth the risk -- again, in my opinion at least. And while he could learn from the bench, it's a longer process. I'd rather get him as much experience as we can when things are rolling like that.
Alaska Darin Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 But Taylor wasn't good enough to beat Flacco, Williams is better right now than Fred at virtually everything else BUT pass blocking. And I'd argue the only time the game was really in doubt was before the opening kickoff. The Bills dominated them, it was the perfect time to put your rookie RB into the game. It was the drive after the Colts scored so the defense was exhausted and the momentum had shifted. That play turns into a score, turnover, or injury to Taylor and everyone is singing a different tune. It was the absolute WORST time in the game to have Williams make his pass blocking debut.You have a problem understanding my posts... Whatever.Let everyone else tell you you're wrong.You must be new here if you think I think give a crap what you mouth breathers think about anything.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 It was the drive after the Colts scored so the defense was exhausted and the momentum had shifted. That play turns into a score, turnover, or injury to Taylor and everyone is singing a different tune. It was the absolute WORST time in the game to have Williams make his pass blocking debut. I remember when the play happened, I just don't agree that the momentum had shifted at all. The colts took FOREVER to score on that drive, down three scores, the momentum hadn't swung. Disappointing? Sure. But the game wasn't in doubt. The Colts wanted no part of the Bills defense by the start of the third quarter.
3rdand12 Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 I still don't think so. The Bills were in total control of that game from the opening whistle. He's going to make mistakes in pass protection, most rookies do. He's also going to make more explosive plays than Fred would (imo). The explosive plays will outnumber the mistakes, that's the gamble but with his skill it's worth the risk -- again, in my opinion at least. And while he could learn from the bench, it's a longer process. I'd rather get him as much experience as we can when things are rolling like that. That tape will be pounded into his head. he will learn. Its a complicated offense and the line is kinda new. They made some errors for sure. But the kid can find a hole and run hard. And we also learned Sammy really can block downfield and make the difference unselfishly. Good things are coming. tis a young team on Offense . let them roll. : )
FireChan Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 I still don't think so. The Bills were in total control of that game from the opening whistle. He's going to make mistakes in pass protection, most rookies do. He's also going to make more explosive plays than Fred would (imo). The explosive plays will outnumber the mistakes, that's the gamble but with his skill it's worth the risk -- again, in my opinion at least. And while he could learn from the bench, it's a longer process. I'd rather get him as much experience as we can when things are rolling like that. 16-24 with 16 unanswered and you don't think the game would be in doubt. Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I like Karlos. I think he's pretty good and he's shown that. I just don't know if you want a liability on pass pro on a make or break season. Just my 2 cents that probably add up to $100 at this point.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) 16-24 with 16 unanswered and you don't think the game would be in doubt. Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I like Karlos. I think he's pretty good and he's shown that. I just don't know if you want a liability on pass pro on a make or break season. Just my 2 cents that probably add up to $100 at this point. Well, speculating on hypotheticals (even though it's a message board's bread and butter) is always goofy. You're assuming they'd have gotten the two point conversion, you're also assuming that the Bills offense couldn't have continued to march down the field as they did the drive before the almost-pick. That's a lot of things that'd have to break against you before it becomes an issue. Playing at home, with the physical beat down the Bills front was delivering, I don't see the momentum turning. Even if it did, I don't see it turning to the point where the Colts win that game. Even with a score there. Maybe I'll change my mind when I get to see the all 22, but this was an ass whooping. Edited September 15, 2015 by GreggyT
Rob's House Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 Of course he needs those reps. How do you think Fred got so good at blitz pickup and pass blocking in the first place? He didn't do it from the bench, he did it from the field. It's the only way for Williams to get the real time, game reps needed. Practice and late in games up 20+ against nobodies is where you get those reps until you're competent. They would make a great trio with McCoy as the scatback, Williams as the bruiser, and Fred as the 3rd down specialist who can block and catch. I can't accept that it's preferable to have less ability in the field for the sake of giving Williams practice.
Alaska Darin Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 I remember when the play happened, I just don't agree that the momentum had shifted at all. The colts took FOREVER to score on that drive, down three scores, the momentum hadn't swung. Disappointing? Sure. But the game wasn't in doubt. The Colts wanted no part of the Bills defense by the start of the third quarter. Then you simply don't know football or the Colts. Luck already has TWELVE fourth quarter comebacks and is 14-2 in one score games. You don't put your team, who is dominating the game, in the hands of a rookie RB in that situation "because he needs the reps."
Beef Jerky Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 Then you simply don't know football or the Colts. Luck already has TWELVE fourth quarter comebacks and is 14-2 in one score games. You don't put your team, who is dominating the game, in the hands of a rookie RB in that situation "because he needs the reps." He didn't have one on Sunday
Deranged Rhino Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 Practice and late in games up 20+ against nobodies is where you get those reps until you're competent. They would make a great trio with McCoy as the scatback, Williams as the bruiser, and Fred as the 3rd down specialist who can block and catch. I can't accept that it's preferable to have less ability in the field for the sake of giving Williams practice. The thing is, Williams can block and catch. He's not just a brusier. And he's also not a bad pass blocker at all. He's just unseasoned. The only thing Fred has is experience (which counts a lot but can only be attained by playing in meaningful action), but to me, at that point in the game, it was over. You can't coach like it's over of course, but you also can't coach like you're terrified of making a mistake. That's not an inspiring mentality to approach the game as a coach in my mind. Then you simply don't know football or the Colts. Luck already has TWELVE fourth quarter comebacks and is 14-2 in one score games. You don't put your team, who is dominating the game, in the hands of a rookie RB in that situation "because he needs the reps." If you want to think I don't know what I'm talking about that's fine. But I have plenty of experience with the game. You're arm-chair coaching scared by even suggesting the game was in doubt BEFORE that play was snapped. It wasn't.
FireChan Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 Well, speculating on hypotheticals (even though it's a message board's bread and butter) is always goofy. You're assuming they'd have gotten the two point conversion, you're also assuming that the Bills offense couldn't have continued to march down the field as they did the drive before the almost-pick. That's a lot of things that'd have to break against you before it becomes an issue. Playing at home, with the physical beat down the Bills front was delivering, I don't see the momentum turning. Even if it did, I don't see it turning to the point where the Colts win that game. Even with a score there. Maybe I'll change my mind when I get to see the all 22, but this was an ass whooping. Luck is a top 5 QB. You know that. Good defense or not, I don't want a top 5 QB within one score with almost a half to go. That's why getting a bigger lead early, which the Bills did, makes the game way easier. A one score game means less "pinning your ears back." It means less giving them 5 yards a play and making them take a quarter to score. Basically, it means less of everything that contributed to the Bills win. Game is in doubt doesn't mean the Colts necessarily win btw. Of course, the possibility we keep our foot on the gas would remain. But I think a 15/16-24 game is a completely different animal than 8-24. Especially with Luck on the other side of the ball.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 Luck is a top 5 QB. You know that. Good defense or not, I don't want a top 5 QB within one score with almost a half to go. That's why getting a bigger lead early, which the Bills did, makes the game way easier. A one score game means less "pinning your ears back." It means less giving them 5 yards a play and making them take a quarter to score. Basically, it means less of everything that contributed to the Bills win. Game is in doubt doesn't mean the Colts necessarily win btw. Of course, the possibility we keep our foot on the gas would remain. But I think a 15/16-24 game is a completely different animal than 8-24. Especially with Luck on the other side of the ball. Maybe, but you're making all these declarations with the benefit of hindsight. Before the ball was snapped, the game was not in doubt. Roman is pretty good but he's not prescient. It wasn't as if it was an overly aggressive play call.
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