Alaska Darin Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Ceiling and "standard" are two different things. Don't know what you're arguing. Oh, I understand it completely. Once again, a whole buncha people are taking some decent (and better) preseason performances and pretending that real NFL game stuff and preseason practice performances that have happened since Manuel was drafted don't matter. They absolutely do. EJ still has a long way to go but at least with this coaching staff his career isn't doomed, but he's not the best QB on this team right now and that's perfectly clear. The fact that people are waiting for the other shoe to drop with Taylor is more about being BILLS' fans than living in reality.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Its a good thing we have alot of receivers. We are going to need them if Cassel is the starter. Those 2-4 yard receptions can get pretty painful! Oh, I understand it completely. Once again, a whole buncha people are taking some decent (and better) preseason performances and pretending that real NFL game stuff and preseason practice performances that have happened since Manuel was drafted don't matter. They absolutely do. EJ still has a long way to go but at least with this coaching staff his career isn't doomed, but he's not the best QB on this team right now and that's perfectly clear. The fact that people are waiting for the other shoe to drop with Taylor is more about being BILLS' fans than living in reality. Recency bias at work!
DrDawkinstein Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 He fell behind Matt Cassel the first couple weeks. He shook off his rust the slowest. So that is your criteria? Does it really matter who shook off the rust the slowest at the beginning of training camp, as long as they are looking good come the Season Opener? Again, the question was how can you say he isnt "NFL caliber"?
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Yeah that's right, I said Tyrod Taylor is already as great of an all time QB as Joe Montana. Read what I wrote. I said his two drives yesterday couldn't have been any better. Yes, Joe Montana in his absolute prime couldn't have done any better than Tyrod Taylor did yesterday in his two preseason drives. Taylor was 12-13. Would Montana have gone 15-13? I also said that a lot of you used the Marrone/coaching excuse way too much for EJ. Those who said that may have been right and I may have been wrong. I'll own that when Manuel does what he did yesterday in a regular season game. Well then EJ was Montana like also, no? (7-8 170 2 Tds and 3 Td drive). I mean would Joe have gone 10-8? Also I love how EJ has to do it in a regular season game, but Tyrod is Joe Montana and never even started in the NFL or even thrown a TD in a NFL game. Great concept.
ToGoGo Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) Alright guy, let's slow down here. We are getting way too excited about a preseason game. The guy played great. You say you've watched a lot of football. Just think about that uncanny feeling you get two weeks into the regular season every year where it occurs to you that what you're seeing is totally different from what you saw in preseason and you remember that preseason means nothing and you try to remind yourself for next year. We will all have that feeling in a month. Are you worried about the Bills defense after yesterday? I'm not. I am worried about Carpenter however. I'm hearing a lot of "preseason" doesn't matter around here. That's somewhat true, but it's very naive to think there's nothing that can be learned from it. I am slightly concerned about the defense yesterday. We went up against a super bowl winning QB on a perennial winning team, a team we could face in the playoffs if we make it, and got taken on a long drive, and I didn't even get the feeling Roethlisberger was trying that hard. We couldn't stop Martavis Bryant, how are we going to stop Antonio Brown. I'm also concerned about our secondary if McKelvin and Gilmore miss too much time. So please don't use that as your argument. These little flaws will become very apparent during the season. There's a reason we went DB with our first pick this year. I just feel "preseason doesn't count" is being used as a crutch around here when it disagrees with your viewpoint. Edited August 30, 2015 by musichunch
DrDawkinstein Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I'm hearing a lot of "preseason" doesn't matter around here. That's somewhat true, but it's very naive to think there's nothing that can be learned from it. I am slightly concerned about the defense yesterday. We went up against a super bowl winning QB on a perennial winning team, a team we could face in the playoffs if we make it, and got taken on a long drive, and I didn't even get the feeling Roethlisberger was trying that hard. We couldn't stop Martavis Bryant, how are we going to stop Antonio Brown. I'm also concerned about our secondary if McKelvin and Gilmore miss too much time. So please don't use that as your argument. These little flaws will become very apparent during the season. There's a reason we went DB with our first pick this year. I just feel "preseason doesn't county" is being used as a crutch around here when it disagrees with your viewpoint. I dont get it either. Preseason DEFINITELY counts when you have a competition at any spot, and especially so when that position is QB. Try telling the 30 or so guys fighting for a career right now that preseason doesnt count. If there is one thing preseason does count for, it is evaluating and picking your starters at open positions.
LeGOATski Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Roman doesn't prefer Cassel. This is the smokescreen rumor that is throwing everyone off. They're just making the Colts work harder. Gamesmanship. Roman can call the right plays for any of these QBs. He took a run-heavy offense with a read-option QB to the Super Bowl. He has no significant reservations about Tyrod. We need to stop overthinking this.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Thanks man, I appreciate it. Although Wawrow's tweet makes me a little nervous. My source a few weeks back about Cassel being Roman's guy was probably a bit stronger than what I have on Taylor being the starter. I'd imagine if there really is a discussion right now (which I don't, I still believe it's Taylor, done deal) that it's Roman advocating for Cassel. That would be in line with the B/R report as well. The thing about this you are saying though is that surely over the last few weeks a LOT of opinions have changed. Very few people thought EJ could do what he did, including the coaches. We didn't know for sure how TT would run the offense in the games, whether he would be able to make good decisions and throw accurately with 11-11 against another defense in a game. I would bet anything the coaches, Rex, Roman, Lee, Palmer, and Whaley and Pegula all have a decidedly different perspective on TT and EJ than they did three weeks ago. Cassel has been Cassel. The thought process has changed over the process and time. There is a distinct possibility that Roman did like the consistency of Cassel over the wildcard of TT after the OTAs and the first two weeks of practice and now that the QBs have learned his offense, Roman now likes TT a little more and the idea of EJ has now entered his mind for the first time the way it has for a lot of people here and Bills fans everywhere. The point is you and your source could have been 100% right when it was said and wrong now.
1billsfan Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) Oh, I understand it completely. Once again, a whole buncha people are taking some decent (and better) preseason performances and pretending that real NFL game stuff and preseason practice performances that have happened since Manuel was drafted don't matter. They absolutely do. EJ still has a long way to go but at least with this coaching staff his career isn't doomed, but he's not the best QB on this team right now and that's perfectly clear. The fact that people are waiting for the other shoe to drop with Taylor is more about being BILLS' fans than living in reality. There's nothing perfectly clear about the choice. EJ Manuel has been "raining" TDs this preseason in awesome fashion. The "reality" I saw this preseason is that EJ looked like the best QB. Not by a lot over Tyrod Taylor, but the TD totals can not be ignored. TDs are the name of the game, not long drives. Edited August 30, 2015 by 1billsfan
Nanker Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I've said it a bunch already- that was a really strange game. It was like an NBA All Star game or something. I feel like anyone could've come in and looked good. What's lost in all this is that Cassel didn't even look terrible. I feel like last year, he would've won the job in the preseason with his four drives. I mean, EJ and Taylor both looked other-worldly good. So good that I don't even know what to make of it. Go ask your next door neighbor Jerry. He'll tell you what to think.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 (edited) I'm hearing a lot of "preseason" doesn't matter around here. That's somewhat true, but it's very naive to think there's nothing that can be learned from it. I am slightly concerned about the defense yesterday. We went up against a super bowl winning QB on a perennial winning team, a team we could face in the playoffs if we make it, and got taken on a long drive, and I didn't even get the feeling Roethlisberger was trying that hard. We couldn't stop Martavis Bryant, how are we going to stop Antonio Brown. I'm also concerned about our secondary if McKelvin and Gilmore miss too much time. So please don't use that as your argument. These little flaws will become very apparent during the season. There's a reason we went DB with our first pick this year. I just feel "preseason doesn't count" is being used as a crutch around here when it disagrees with your viewpoint. Ej and Cassel both have track records and to a certain extent are held accountable. Taylor has little to no track record. This is an art form not a science. Constantly, we are fighting our own biases. Is what happened recently representative of real change? is the sample size big enough? Edited August 30, 2015 by The Thurmanator
Kelly the Dog Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I've said it a bunch already- that was a really strange game. It was like an NBA All Star game or something. I feel like anyone could've come in and looked good. What's lost in all this is that Cassel didn't even look terrible. I feel like last year, he would've won the job in the preseason with his four drives. I mean, EJ and Taylor both looked other-worldly good. So good that I don't even know what to make of it. Two of Cassels six completions were actually bad passes and they were only 7-8 yards down the field with no rush.
Freddie's Dead Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I also said that a lot of you used the Marrone/coaching excuse way too much for EJ. Those who said that may have been right and I may have been wrong. I'll own that when Manuel does what he did yesterday in a regular season game. EJ has done it in regular season games, despite the crappy coaching. Most on this board choose to conveniently forget the Carolina, Jets, and Atlanta games (freakin' Johnson and Chandler).
Bills Fan888 Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I'm hearing a lot of "preseason" doesn't matter around here. That's somewhat true, but it's very naive to think there's nothing that can be learned from it. I am slightly concerned about the defense yesterday. We went up against a super bowl winning QB on a perennial winning team, a team we could face in the playoffs if we make it, and got taken on a long drive, and I didn't even get the feeling Roethlisberger was trying that hard. We couldn't stop Martavis Bryant, how are we going to stop Antonio Brown. I'm also concerned about our secondary if McKelvin and Gilmore miss too much time. So please don't use that as your argument. These little flaws will become very apparent during the season. There's a reason we went DB with our first pick this year. I just feel "preseason doesn't count" is being used as a crutch around here when it disagrees with your viewpoint. I dont get it either. Preseason DEFINITELY counts when you have a competition at any spot, and especially so when that position is QB. Try telling the 30 or so guys fighting for a career right now that preseason doesnt count. If there is one thing preseason does count for, it is evaluating and picking your starters at open positions. Preseason does count for evaluating your starters, as you said, but there are a lot of things to take into consideration and a limited amount of things you can learn because of that. The defense, for example, did not look too hot but that was because, as Rex said, he was trying to evaluate Darby and left him on an island where he got burned. We learned that our QB's can throw the ball well and make plays, but against a defense that is learning a new system and couldn't cover anyone for their lives. The Steelers defense that we saw is completely different from what we'll see from the Patriots or the Dolphins.
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Oh, I understand it completely. Once again, a whole buncha people are taking some decent (and better) preseason performances and pretending that real NFL game stuff and preseason practice performances that have happened since Manuel was drafted don't matter. They absolutely do. EJ still has a long way to go but at least with this coaching staff his career isn't doomed, but he's not the best QB on this team right now and that's perfectly clear. The fact that people are waiting for the other shoe to drop with Taylor is more about being BILLS' fans than living in reality. To who, you? Not to me. I'm picking EJ's yards and TD's. There's nothing perfectly clear about the choice. EJ Manuel has been "raining" TDs the preseason in awesome fashion. The "reality" I saw this preseason is that EJ looked like the best QB. Not by a lot over Tyrod Taylor, but the TD totals can not be ignored. TDs are the name of the game, not long drives. You hit the nail right on the head.
FireChan Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 So that is your criteria? Does it really matter who shook off the rust the slowest at the beginning of training camp, as long as they are looking good come the Season Opener? Again, the question was how can you say he isnt "NFL caliber"? We haven't played the season opener. Continue with the crowning.
Coach Tuesday Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I've been neutral about this QB competition. Cassel didn't look very good to me yesterday. If that's what the offense is going to look like with him under center, it's going to be a boring and frustrating season. EJ has a mental issue - his QB play remind me of my golf game - when he is relaxed and just goes out and plays, he can look great. But that one incompletion - and I know it's a nitpick - was vintage EJ Yips. He thought too much and his mechanics fell apart. I'm sure it's terrifying for the coaches to see that. The problem with EJ is mental not physical, which is very hard for coaches to deal with. TT looked the best of the three but I still need to see a touchdown pass out of him in the redzone. That's what would worry me if I were his coaches.
bladiebla Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I am slightly concerned about the defense yesterday. We went up against a super bowl winning QB on a perennial winning team, a team we could face in the playoffs if we make it, and got taken on a long drive, and I didn't even get the feeling Roethlisberger was trying that hard. We couldn't stop Martavis Bryant, how are we going to stop Antonio Brown. I'm also concerned about our secondary if McKelvin and Gilmore miss too much time. So please don't use that as your argument. These little flaws will become very apparent during the season. There's a reason we went DB with our first pick this year. The defense has me worried too, throughout pre-season they have been giving up big plays much like how they performed under Petine. At this point I'm still sold a lot more on last years scheme. There's nothing perfectly clear about the choice. EJ Manuel has been "raining" TDs this preseason in awesome fashion. The "reality" I saw this preseason is that EJ looked like the best QB. Not by a lot over Tyrod Taylor, but the TD totals can not be ignored. TDs are the name of the game, not long drives. Actually EJ and TT tie for points, with TT having the significant better drive to score ratio. EJ 5th rated QB overall (behind Drew Brees, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford and Matt Ryan), 20/30/66.7%/11.9avg/4TD/358total/146.9 rating. TT 30th rated QB overall, 24/31/77.4%/7.6avg/0TD/236total/98.3 rating Meh 49th rated QB overall, 13/15/86.7%/5.5avg/0TD/83total/89.7 rating TT: played a total of 9 drives of which 4 resulted in a TD, 3 in a fg attempt, 1 failed 4th conversion, and 1 punt for a total of 77% scoring drives. cassel played 4 drives so far of which 2 resulted in a punt, 2 resulted in a fg attempt for a 50% scoring drive result. EJ: played 13 drives so far of which 5 resulted in a TD, 1 in a fg attempt, 1 failed 4th conversion and 6 punts for a total of 46% scoring drives.
boyst Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Wawrow knows something to paste this. I do not think it is EJ. Wawrow don't work like that, I don't think he has the ability to plant seeds from the front office to gode other teams on.
bladiebla Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 But that one incompletion - and I know it's a nitpick - was vintage EJ Yips. He thought too much and his mechanics fell apart. I'm sure it's terrifying for the coaches to see that. The problem with EJ is mental not physical, which is very hard for coaches to deal with. That ball was tipped, hardly the EJ fail we've seen in previous years.
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