How Does Indy Game Plan for Taylor?

[papazoid]

defenses will mix up coverages like always, need to be unpredictable.

 

having said that, we have NEVER had a TE the likes of Charles Clay, add in a healthy Sammy, game breaker harvin, steady woods along with the running threat of Tyrod, who by the way throws a very nice catchable ball and all pro RB & FB

 

and you have the makings of a legit playoff team. if we come out of the first two games 1-1.....LOOKOUT ! ....it's on like a mofo.....(laffin)

[mattsox]

This post is not to suggest that Taylor is the starter for week 1 because we simply won't know for sure who it is until Rex actually announces it.

 

But, regardless of who does actually end up starting, Indy is going to have to try to be prepared for the possibility that it might be Tyrod Taylor.

 

And my question is - How does Indy game plan for Taylor? What would you do if you had to try to stop him?

I actually predict this game to be a shoot out. Unfortunately, I feel Mr. Luck will get the upperhand...

[PolishDave]

It's not mine, nor anyone else's, fault that you've never heard the phrase "run first" quarterback.

 

A quick google search brings up pages of results referencing the term.

 

The fact that you don't like the phrase, because it's a pejorative, doesn't somehow confer on him the Bo Jacksonesque ability to decide how he's going to beat you, and magically make him into a "dual-threat" quarterback.

 

Tyrod, while explosive, is one dimensional. He doesn't progress through his reads while under pressure, and that allows defenses to control his decision making. You saw this in the second preseason game, where Cleveland flushed him out of the pocket to his left on third and long, and then ushered him out of bounds well before the first down marker.

Okay I guess you do have an agenda then. Don't you TT hater? You just made it obvious.

 

You didn't even look at those pages in Google did you? Nope you didn't. There is no such thing as a "run-first" quarterback. Sorry pal, but there just isn't. Because guys who run first aren't quarterbacks, they are running backs. The real phrase that is used across the league to describe guys like him is the term "dual threat quarterback". In fact it is so popular, that it has its own Wikipedia page.

 

Calling him a "run first" quarterback is a lie, it's wrong, it's incredibly lame, and you know it. That is why you are pissed. You can't stand the fact that he is a legit "dual-threat". I can't see how this could possibly make you mad if you are truly a Bills fan, but whatever.

 

In fact, so far in preseason, Tyrod Taylor has shown himself to be an exemplary image of what the term dual-threat quarterback means.

 

If you don't like him for whatever reason, that is fine. You are entitled to your opinion. But you are just flat out making up lies about the guy to try to make a really weak point.

 

Why not just admit you don't like the guy and you don't know why? Or maybe you do know why and you don't want to say it in public? Or maybe you could make a case that you think he will turn into a quarterback who is afraid to throw the ball and will just try to run with it on the majority of passing plays. Those are legit points.

 

But making up new words to paint a false picture of the guy is just kind of (insert your own word here). I keep giving you rope and you keep hanging yourself with it.

[thebandit27]

I would bet that they try to spy Taylor with Jerrell Freeman or Mike Adams and play their rush LBs in contain mode.

 

The problem with that approach is that Buffalo has a ton of speed at the skill positions, and can run TEs, backs, and slot WRs into the coverage zone of the spy.

 

Of course, Indy could counter this by going to man coverage, but who wants to take 1-on-1 matchups with all of Sammy, Woods, Harvin, Clay, and McCoy (which would leave either zero deep help or zero opportunity to send more than 4 pass rushers--pick your poison).

 

Face it, the Tyrod decision makes this team much tougher to game plan for, at least at the outset of the season.

[papazoid]

tyrod taylor = young mike vick

[vincec]

I assume they'll start with a lot of 2 deep shell, keeping DB eyes on Taylor and making him beat them with his arm. This will also help with the WRs.

 

Or they can rush 5+ and make him run as much as possible, making him one dimensional that way at knocking him out of any rhythm- the Mike Vick strategy.

 

Probably a combination.

Edited September 1, 2015 by vincec

[PolishDave]

I actually predict this game to be a shoot out. Unfortunately, I feel Mr. Luck will get the upperhand...

A shootout is a real possibility.

 

I can't make up my mind about how I think this game is going to play out. There is so little useful tape on Tyrod Taylor. This coaching staff is new to this team. There are many variables and many questions.

 

Will Taylor play as well in the regular season game as he has in the preseason? Will he be able to move the ball as well? Will he end up looking like an inexperienced and confused rookie because he sat the bench for years?

 

Will the offensive line play well enough to open holes in the running game and give the passer time to find a receiver? Will we be able to run the ball?

 

Will the great Buffalo Bills defense from last year show up to this game? Will they get sufficient pressure on Luck? Will our secondary get smoked or not?

 

Is Indy a legit team that is going to challenge for the AFC title again? Is Indy an overrated team?

 

Will the fact that the Bills are playing this game at home be a difference maker in this game? Is Carpenter going to be as reliable as he was last year or is he going to keep shanking kicks?

 

 

I think Indy really has their work cut out for them in this game and I hope they are overconfident. I also think the Bills really have their work cut out for them in this game. And I hope the parts of the team that performed well last year are still up to par for this game. And I hope the offense is able to move the ball as well as they did in preseason under Tyrod Taylor. If that happens, big "if", then the Bills will come out on top. This game could easily go either way.

Edited September 1, 2015 by PolishDave

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

If it was easy to flush a guy from the pocket and push him left into a spying linebacker- Teams would do this every play. If you get caught trying to do this and get picked up, he'll have a clean pocket and a clean view of the whole field. Seattle makes you drop the spy by running the ball, and taking what you give them.

 

I expect a lot of misdirection plays, counters, and play action. Throw in zone read and bootleg plays and they can literally go in any direction. Having a great running game will give you that flexibility.

 

Having said that, he does need to be smart and not try to do too much. Wilson had a great year last year, and he still doesn't try to do too much out there. Let the game come to you.

[aristocrat]

If roman wants him to be a dual threat that tt will be. If roman tells tt to stay in the pocket he will stay in the pocket. It's all how roman draws up the game plan and the adjustments he makes during the game. TT is not just going to start running every play ignoring roman's call. Sure, there will be times where he has to scramble...like brady and manning do...but it all depends on how roman wants to use tt. TT can do what cassel can do...short throws just methodically down the field if that's what roman wants him to do. Just cause he can run doesn't mean he's going to run constantly. He might but the coaches know like we do that qb's on the run have a tendency to get hurt more often.

[KingRex]

A shootout is a real possibility.

 

I can't make up my mind about how I think this game is going to play out. There is so little useful tape on Tyrod Taylor. This coaching staff is new to this team. There are many variables and many questions.

 

Will Taylor play as well in the regular season game as he has in the preseason? Will he be able to move the ball as well? Will he end up looking like an inexperienced and confused rookie because he sat the bench for years?

 

Will the offensive line play well enough to open holes in the running game and give the passer time to find a receiver? Will we be able to run the ball?

 

Will the great Buffalo Bills defense from last year show up to this game? Will they get sufficient pressure on Luck? Will our secondary get smoked or not?

 

Is Indy a legit team that is going to challenge for the AFC title again? Is Indy an overrated team?

 

Will the fact that the Bills are playing this game at home be a difference maker in this game? Is Carpenter going to be as reliable as he was last year or is he going to keep shanking kicks?

 

 

I think Indy really has their work cut out for them in this game and I hope they are overconfident. I also think the Bills really have their work cut out for them in this game. And I hope the parts of the team that performed well last year are still up to par for this game. And I hope the offense is able to move the ball as well as they did in preseason under Tyrod Taylor. If that happens, big "if", then the Bills will come out on top. This game could easily go either way.

One thing I'd love to see predictors take into account is that one variable which math wizards have been able to quantify is that home team advantage is a real thing.

 

Home teams get a roughly three point advantage versus how the teams stack up on paper in terms of the quality of their rosters. I think it is actually easy to see how home cooking provides an advantage through aspects like:

 

1. Crowd noise- an intelligent crowd knows to make noise and make it difficult for opponents to audible during key times or even to keep quiet and listen to their QB call signals at home.

 

knowledgable crowds will even spontaneously seem to give false countdown of time left on the gameclocks to fool the other team.

 

I have not only seen this done at the Ralph, but even in cases where the crowd is too excited to do it right, we routinely see the home crowd quiet down when their QB tells them to quiet down or be whipped into an even louder frenzy by their D.

 

2. Psychology- Its harder to quantify and predict, but playing at home gives a seemingly clear advantage from sleeping at home, familiarity with field conditions and local wind patterns to simply not having to fly cross country and deal with baggage logistics, time zone shifts, and not having the family around so time to party on the road.

 

3. Simply getting stoked up by cheers and not being oppressed by catcalls.

 

My sense is that one big advantage the Bills will have over Indy (and NE as well if they are led by Garafalo rather than Brady) is that they will beat home. It may well be a game that is a shootout which tends toward offensive output. However, I will not be shocked if the game is actually one of great Bills production offensively, but Indy and Luck get stymied by the additional factor of homecooking leading to some big plays by the Bills D early in the game (for example if crowd noise leads to a missed blocking pick-up on a blitz and Luck gets pancaked by Mario.

We'll see!

[TakeYouToTasker]

Okay I guess you do have an agenda then. Don't you TT hater? You just made it obvious.

 

You didn't even look at those pages in Google did you? Nope you didn't. There is no such thing as a "run-first" quarterback. Sorry pal, but there just isn't. Because guys who run first aren't quarterbacks, they are running backs. The real phrase that is used across the league to describe guys like him is the term "dual threat quarterback". In fact it is so popular, that it has its own Wikipedia page.

 

Calling him a "run first" quarterback is a lie, it's wrong, it's incredibly lame, and you know it. That is why you are pissed. You can't stand the fact that he is a legit "dual-threat". I can't see how this could possibly make you mad if you are truly a Bills fan, but whatever.

 

In fact, so far in preseason, Tyrod Taylor has shown himself to be an exemplary image of what the term dual-threat quarterback means.

 

If you don't like him for whatever reason, that is fine. You are entitled to your opinion. But you are just flat out making up lies about the guy to try to make a really weak point.

 

Why not just admit you don't like the guy and you don't know why? Or maybe you do know why and you don't want to say it in public? Or maybe you could make a case that you think he will turn into a quarterback who is afraid to throw the ball and will just try to run with it on the majority of passing plays. Those are legit points.

 

But making up new words to paint a false picture of the guy is just kind of (insert your own word here). I keep giving you rope and you keep hanging yourself with it.

...

 

It's rare that I read a more vapid argument than this.

 

You suppose that I have an "agenda" because I'm aware of common vernacular, it's application relevant to both the NFL and collegiate games, and have watched Tyrod Taylor throughout his college and (limited) NFL career? That's foolish.

 

Tyrod Taylor was, at the VT, a running quarterback. He worked exclusively out of the shotgun, wasn't asked to work beyond his first read, and he wasn't asked to take a 3, 5 or 7 step drop. He was told, "make your read, and if he's not open, run." He was a superior athlete, in the Mike Vick mode, who was able to succeed in college because he was faster than the other players on the field, and he was playing against dumbed down college defenses.

 

When collegiate running quarterbacks take to the NFL, they've had almost no success. GM's and head coaches see their athleticism, and raw talent, and for whatever reason believe these guys can become traditional drop-back, 3-5 read, pocket passers who take off and run like the wind when all 3-5 layers of routes are covered, or the pocket completely breaks down. They've had almost no success with this to the point that a conversation has broken out about the concern that the college game has become so different from the NFL that the feeder pool for the QB position is drying up, and what can be done about it if the NFL wants to protect the game it's designed. When these players make the transition from a collegiate one-read running quarterback into the NFL game, they continue to do what they've always done when things break down around them. That's where the term "run fist" evolved from, and just because you're unfamiliar with is usage, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but rather that you're simply ignorant of the term. The fact that there are dozens of references to the term on any web search supports that.

 

Your preferred substitution of the term "dual threat", is dishonest, as it attempts to cover up know deficiencies with semantics. A quarterback who can't work through his progressions in the pocket before being flushed is a "zero threat" quarterback, because that type of quarterback can always be controlled by the defense. From your own Wikipedia link (whose primary source is Bleacher Report, by the way), the list of "dual threat" quarterbacks is laughable. Mike Vick, Kordell Stewart, Colin Kaepernick, Robert Griffin, and Tim Tebow listed among the most prominent throughout body of the page. Further, the inclusion of pocket passers Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck is absurd, both of them being complete multi-read pocket passers who also happen to be able to run.

 

Tyrod Taylor, with his inability to get past his first and second reads when the pocket is breaking down, is a less talented version of the first group; an objective observer might agree with Steve Young as he phrases it in your article "has had the development of his pocket presence stunted by scrambling away from pressure." (paraphrased)

 

In summary: You're out of your depth, and don't have an objective view of the situation.

Edited September 1, 2015 by TakeYouToTasker

[Coach Tuesday]

Well this has disintegrated into something stupid.

[PolishDave]

I would bet that they try to spy Taylor with Jerrell Freeman or Mike Adams and play their rush LBs in contain mode.

 

The problem with that approach is that Buffalo has a ton of speed at the skill positions, and can run TEs, backs, and slot WRs into the coverage zone of the spy.

 

Of course, Indy could counter this by going to man coverage, but who wants to take 1-on-1 matchups with all of Sammy, Woods, Harvin, Clay, and McCoy (which would leave either zero deep help or zero opportunity to send more than 4 pass rushers--pick your poison).

 

Face it, the Tyrod decision makes this team much tougher to game plan for, at least at the outset of the season.

 

On one of the Indy forums, fans have been complaining about poor tackling. I don't know whether it is the D-line, the linebackers or secondary who is missing the tackles. But if that tendency continues, with McCoy's elusiveness, he could make this game a lot easier on the rest of the offense.

 

I wonder how much effort the Colts are going to put into game planning specifically against McCoy? Probably a substantial amount of effort I would assume. And how much effort are they going to put into covering our number one receiver - Watkins? Probably a substantial amount I would assume. Maybe they are putting a lot of thinking into Clay or Harvin? I don't know. And Tyrod?

 

On paper it seems like they will have a very difficult time taking away the play making potential from all of those guys. If Roman and Rex recognize what Indy is doing right and wrong early on during the game, then they will be able to adjust the offensive play calling to exploit whatever opportunities they are giving.

 

This game is going to be exciting.

Edited September 1, 2015 by PolishDave

[Utah John]

I think the Colts won't do much special. The read-option has come and gone as a major weapon, but if I were them I'd brush up on defending it. Otherwise, TT might be more mobile than the average guy, but the Bills main offensive threats are the skill position guys -- Shady, Watkins, Harvin, Clay, and Woods. You can't cover all those guys if you're putting a spy on TT, who is going to have to prove to the league that it's a mistake not to pay special attention to him. The main thing is getting at least three of those skill position guys back so TT doesn't have to do this alone.

 

I am pretty worried about our pass defense, particularly against Luck. Gilmore keeps getting injured, McKelvin is still walking wounded, and Darby...holy Toledo, he's going to get torched. As good as the Bills defense is against the run, it won't matter if all the other guys have to do is throw up a jump ball and walk down the field after the PI penalty. I figure Corey Graham is playing safety this year because he's lost a step, but he's still probably a better CB than Darby.

 

The over/under on this game ought to be about 60.

[KingRex]

 

On one of the Indy forums, fans have been complaining about poor tackling. I don't know whether it is the D-line, the linebackers or secondary who is missing the tackles. But if that tendency continues, with McCoy's elusiveness, he could make this game a lot easier on the rest of the offense.

 

I wonder how much effort the Colts are going to put into game planning specifically against McCoy? Probably a substantial amount of effort I would assume. And how much effort are they going to put into covering our number one receiver - Watkins? Probably a substantial amount I would assume. Maybe they are putting a lot of thinking into Clay or Harvin? I don't know. And Tyrod?

 

On paper it seems like they will have a very difficult time taking away the play making potential from all of those guys. If Roman and Rex recognize what Indy is doing right and wrong early on during the game, then they will be able to adjust the offensive play calling to exploit whatever opportunities they are giving.

 

This game is going to be exciting.

A lot of Rex/Roman interest seems to be:

 

1. Run early and often- Armed with McCoy (one can reasonably wonder about wear and tear on this heavily used RB, but this is Game 1 and the release of Freddy seems to be endorsement of McCoy health) and with an OL that seems to have come together, expect effort and probably productivity which will force Indy into at least 7 and probably 8 in the box.

 

2. Create mismatches with the WRS- Indy DBs are gonna be on an island. Given Watkins speed, Harvin's explosiveness, and Woods precise route running if Indy zones up, this team is made to present challenges to Indy

 

3. Special attention should be given to the play reading and coverage skills of Indy's SS and their Sam LB as these are the players most likely to need to read and cover Clay and handfight this big boy in coverage. Plan c is definitely a good one for the Bills if they do not run, but Taylor sees no clear read for his WRs.

 

4. Plan D is the Tyrod improvise. He now either simply moves and read option for coverage breakdowns or run and if he makes the spy miss, he goes as far as he can.

 

My prediction?

 

Pain (for Indy's D)

[scribo]

The math is simple. There will be mismatches in our offense's favor on every play that is properly executed. The Colts need to pick their poison and do what they can to keep the Bills from properly executing.

Edited September 1, 2015 by scribo

[truth on hold]

You think we sign Phil Taylor by then to replace Dareus for the game? But seriously TT is very easy to game plan against until he proves otherwise.

[YoloinOhio]

@AroundTheNFL: Colts have already started game planning for Tyrod Taylor http://t.co/QqlVTKZ1sA

[YoloinOhio]

 

@ProFootballTalk: Pagano: Colts better have "somebody fast enough" for when Tyrod Taylor runs http://t.co/Jpu5yMufNK

[PolishDave]

@ProFootballTalk: Pagano: Colts better have "somebody fast enough" for when Tyrod Taylor runs http://t.co/Jpu5yMufNK

The more time and effort they devote to trying to figure out how to stop Tyrod, the less time they have to dedicate to stopping the other proven weapons on offense that the Bills have.

 

Is a guy that is fast enough to catch Tyrod Taylor going to be big enough to tackle a guy like Karlos Williams? This game is going to be fun.