A Dog Named Kelso Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 they are all playing with the first team. The fact he is going first is irrelevant. If he was playing with the first team and the other two with the 2nd/third... That would be relevant. Keeping the option open that he could start with Indy is something that could not hurt. While its not his main intention I think it's an offshoot that as a defensive mind he knows could in fact help and could not hurt. IMO. The 2-3 series he is "wasting" with EJ by not giving the time to the other two is greatly minimized by the fact that no starters are playing anyway besides the line and possibly TE. I could see the mess with Indy argument if it was a week over week situation, but they have basically all summer to come up with plans to combat any or all of the three.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 So we've gone from EJ looking good, to him not getting a chance, to getting a chance, to confirmed he sucks and has no chance? :wallbash:
FireChan Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 I am only arguing against what seems illogical commentary. If EJ kills it (meaning he outperforms the other 2 by a large margin) You can't just say screw him. I'd agree that'd make the choice a little harder.
YoloinOhio Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 I could see the mess with Indy argument if it was a week over week situation, but they have basically all summer to come up with plans to combat any or all of the three. its not a grand plan to try to mess with them. It's just an offshoot that can't hurt. It's harder to plan for 3 than 2 or 1.
OldTimer1960 Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 Hopefully a few were from Indy. Wonder what they try to make of it? I don't think Indy or any other team is worried in the least about which of these 3 starts at QB for Buffalo. Indy will have a very decided advantage at QB no matter which guy Buffalo plays.
PromoTheRobot Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 If they do some sort of Cassel/Tyrod hybrid thing, I don't see it taking us anywhere. Except to punchlines... Unless it works. I don't think Indy or any other team is worried in the least about which of these 3 starts at QB for Buffalo. Indy will have a very decided advantage at QB no matter which guy Buffalo plays.I hope they think like you.
KOKBILLS Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) No he said they will keep 3 QB's. He never said he would keep those 3. Sure technically he did not name all three QB's he was planning on keeping...But come on... The question by Chris Brown was framed around the 3 QB's who quite obviously are Cassel, TT, and EJ...and whether or not Rex would have to make a tough roster decision to keep only two...Rex brushed off that possibility immediately... "No...We're going to keep 53 really good players...And I have a funny feeling that means 3 QB's..." Rex, Brown, and everyone on the planet earth knows who the three are...And I'm not saying that he has not changed his mind by now either...Just saying at the time it was absolutely those three he was talking about... Edited August 28, 2015 by KOKBILLS
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 I don't think Indy or any other team is worried in the least about which of these 3 starts at QB for Buffalo. Indy will have a very decided advantage at QB no matter which guy Buffalo plays. So you don't think that their defense will prepare for our offense? Or you don't think that preparation will differ based on our selection? Nobody is saying our QB is better than theirs, but QB's don't face each other on the field anyway, so I really don't understand your last point.
OldTimer1960 Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 So you don't think that their defense will prepare for our offense? Or you don't think that preparation will differ based on our selection? Nobody is saying our QB is better than theirs, but QB's don't face each other on the field anyway, so I really don't understand your last point. I was arguing that defenses will prepare for the Bills' run game primarily and also that none of the Bills' 3 QBs scares any defense. The only one that might requires little prep is Taylor and that would be to say "do not rush hard, keep him in the pocket.
VABills Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 Sure technically he did not name all three QB's he was planning on keeping...But come on... The question by Chris Brown was framed around the 3 QB's who quite obviously are Cassel, TT, and EJ...and whether or not Rex would have to make a tough roster decision to keep only two...Rex brushed off that possibility immediately... "No...We're going to keep 53 really good players...And I have a funny feeling that means 3 QB's..." Rex, Brown, and everyone on the planet earth knows who the three are...And I'm not saying that he has not changed his mind by now either...Just saying at the time it was absolutely those three he was talking about... Actually he stated exactly what others think. It likely is going to be 3 QBs. Brown didn't imply it was those three. Neither did Rex. You're delusional if you try to read too much into what he said. Simms has a very real possibility of being that 3rd QB, with his connection to Rex.
KOKBILLS Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Actually he stated exactly what others think. It likely is going to be 3 QBs. Brown didn't imply it was those three. Neither did Rex. You're delusional if you try to read too much into what he said. Simms has a very real possibility of being that 3rd QB, with his connection to Rex. Go watch the video...They are literally showing video of the three QB's while he's asking the question... But ya...I'm delusional... Seriously...No one...and I mean no one has even hinted at Simms having a chance at this roster...Is it possible? Sure it is...But it would literally be the biggest surprise of them all...And keeping him over a 1st round pick from just two years ago...No one is expecting that or inferring it...No one... Edited August 28, 2015 by KOKBILLS
Nihilarian Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 I can see how I might come off that way sometimes. That's fair. As far as EJ Manuel goes though, I gave praise to the three posters who actually went on record as saying that he had a better than 50% chance of developing into a franchise QB. Everyone else just keeps calling people like me "haters" but refuses to disagree with me and say that he is more than likely. And by franchise QB, my definition is that he is our clear cut starter week 1 2017. And I acknowledge that there are probably a few Bills fans who are actually anti-EJ at this point (though not nearly as many as some would think). But my God, if this season Cyril Richardson got a chance to start, took a huge step back, sucked and then got benched for the rest of the season and I said, "ya know what guys? My gut is that it's not happening for Cyril Richardson," would I be subject to constant scorn, ridicule and accusations that I'm not really a Bills fan and deep down my main goal is to see Cyril Richardson fail? Think about that for a second. First, comparing EJ to Richardson is like comparing apples to watermelons. EJ was a 1st round pick at QB, and Richardson was a 5th round pick at OG. Young QB's are going to have bad games, and its from those bad games that they learn, grow, and develop. EJ was a known project at QB, and was supposed to ride the bench his first season until vet QB Kevin Kolb ended his career by tripping on a rubber mat!! EJ was from a very successful one read system in college, and any coach with a normal brain should understand the kid needs much more learning time then someone from a pro style college offense! Then not having a veteran QB on the roster for 2013 was almost as stupid as not having a QB coach with three young QB's on the roster. One rookie 1st rounder, one rookie undrafted, one player with a whole two games of experience all being led by an OC with no previous coordinator experience at the NFL level. His sole NFL coaching experience was one season as offensive quality control coach. EJ didn't start looking bad until the coaches changed the game plan for the Chargers & Houston games. EJ was 2-0 last year until his coaches went pass crazy, and then stopped running the ball after those first two games. Last years offense 579 passes vs 402 rushes while having the 26th offense in yards. Most games last year the coaches were forcing the QB to throw around 40 times, and ran the ball around 20 times. Think about that for a min, as most RB's by themselves usually need around 20 carries to get into a decent rhythm. LeSean McCoy usually had some really good games when given the ball 20 plus times. Speaking of that Fred Jackson was 7 for 33= 4.7 YPC avg against Houston, and yet only saw the ball 7 times. Spiller went 15 for 60 which was still 4.0 YPC avg, and yet the coaches had the inexperienced 2nd year QB throw 44 times that game. I've read that Leroi stated that EJ was a disaster in that Houston game. EJ was under constant pressure all game, and JJ Watt had a career high nine hits on EJ that game. What the real disaster was in that game was the game plan, and offensive line! Oh BTW that 5th round pick at OG was starting for that game, and was benched for Urbik not long after. At that particular time the Bills were fielding the very worst offensive line in the entire NFL. Five dropped passes by the receivers, and multiple penalties by the O line didn't help in that game. The final score of that game was only 17-23, and the Bills were in that game until the very end. That Houston game was a game the Bills could have won with a better game plan. The Bills had the better RB's, and defense. I have no idea what this current coaching staff is thinking in terms of the QB for this season. Starting Matt Cassel might be the safer choice if all you are aiming for is a winning season, and that prospect is somewhat iffy considering Cassel's injury history along with some really bad seasons at KC.Lets not forget that at the end a healthy Cassel was benched in favor of Brady Quinn. Taylor looks to be an exciting play maker, and should be so until any injury to his wheels forces him to be strictly a pocket passer...then what? I would think that further trying to develop that #1 pick at QB with only 14 games under his belt should be the primary concern here, and hopefully it is!
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 I was arguing that defenses will prepare for the Bills' run game primarily and also that none of the Bills' 3 QBs scares any defense. The only one that might requires little prep is Taylor and that would be to say "do not rush hard, keep him in the pocket. I hope they prep like you think. Should bode well for us.
GunnerBill Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 Actually he stated exactly what others think. It likely is going to be 3 QBs. Brown didn't imply it was those three. Neither did Rex. You're delusional if you try to read too much into what he said. Simms has a very real possibility of being that 3rd QB, with his connection to Rex. He said they would keep the best 53 and that might include 3 Quarterbacks. Safe to say based on reps they think Simms is the 4th best Quarterback so that statement wouldn't then add up. Having said that if you trade EJ before cuts he isn't on the team so then it isn't an issue either way. I don't really buy the "they are trying to trade EJ" logic at all. For me he earned this chance they are going to give him this chance partly cos it helps Rex look the vets on the team in the eye and say the eventual winner won the job fair and square, secondly because yea it plays a mind game with the Colts who could easily overthink their prep for game 1 and thirdly because in a game where all 3 will play with the starters you don't lose anything by sending EJ out first. I am sure there would be teams interested in EJ if he was on the trade block. Look at the guys being signed off the street this week it is the dregs of the dregs... someone would flip you a 7th maybe a 6th if you create a bidding war to take a guy who has shown some things in the league albeit never totally proven himself. And if the Bills want to trade him that option is open whether or not he starts tomorrow. I think it would take someone offering a player the Bills value to get EJ at this stage. Otherwise they are rolling with all 3 of the top QBs on the roster.
VABills Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 He said they would keep the best 53 and that might include 3 Quarterbacks. Safe to say based on reps they think Simms is the 4th best Quarterback so that statement wouldn't then add up. Having said that if you trade EJ before cuts he isn't on the team so then it isn't an issue either way. I don't really buy the "they are trying to trade EJ" logic at all. For me he earned this chance they are going to give him this chance partly cos it helps Rex look the vets on the team in the eye and say the eventual winner won the job fair and square, secondly because yea it plays a mind game with the Colts who could easily overthink their prep for game 1 and thirdly because in a game where all 3 will play with the starters you don't lose anything by sending EJ out first. I am sure there would be teams interested in EJ if he was on the trade block. Look at the guys being signed off the street this week it is the dregs of the dregs... someone would flip you a 7th maybe a 6th if you create a bidding war to take a guy who has shown some things in the league albeit never totally proven himself. And if the Bills want to trade him that option is open whether or not he starts tomorrow. I think it would take someone offering a player the Bills value to get EJ at this stage. Otherwise they are rolling with all 3 of the top QBs on the roster. No and it was quoted. We are keeping 53 really good players. He didn't use the word BEST.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 Taylor looks to be an exciting play maker, and should be so until any injury to his wheels forces him to be strictly a pocket passer...then what? I would think that further trying to develop that #1 pick at QB with only 14 games under his belt should be the primary concern here, and hopefully it is! EJ has had some pretty good passes in preseason, and should represent a deep threat until any injury to his arm/shoulder forces him to check down more and be accurate...then what? Seriously though, can we let the QB's play a bit before we rule them out because they might get injured?
VABills Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 First, comparing EJ to Richardson is like comparing apples to watermelons. EJ was a 1st round pick at QB, and Richardson was a 5th round pick at OG. Young QB's are going to have bad games, and its from those bad games that they learn, grow, and develop. EJ was a known project at QB, and was supposed to ride the bench his first season until vet QB Kevin Kolb ended his career by tripping on a rubber mat!! EJ was from a very successful one read system in college, and any coach with a normal brain should understand the kid needs much more learning time then someone from a pro style college offense! Then not having a veteran QB on the roster for 2013 was almost as stupid as not having a QB coach with three young QB's on the roster. One rookie 1st rounder, one rookie undrafted, one player with a whole two games of experience all being led by an OC with no previous coordinator experience at the NFL level. His sole NFL coaching experience was one season as offensive quality control coach. EJ didn't start looking bad until the coaches changed the game plan for the Chargers & Houston games. EJ was 2-0 last year until his coaches went pass crazy, and then stopped running the ball after those first two games. Last years offense 579 passes vs 402 rushes while having the 26th offense in yards. Most games last year the coaches were forcing the QB to throw around 40 times, and ran the ball around 20 times. Think about that for a min, as most RB's by themselves usually need around 20 carries to get into a decent rhythm. LeSean McCoy usually had some really good games when given the ball 20 plus times. Speaking of that Fred Jackson was 7 for 33= 4.7 YPC avg against Houston, and yet only saw the ball 7 times. Spiller went 15 for 60 which was still 4.0 YPC avg, and yet the coaches had the inexperienced 2nd year QB throw 44 times that game. I've read that Leroi stated that EJ was a disaster in that Houston game. EJ was under constant pressure all game, and JJ Watt had a career high nine hits on EJ that game. What the real disaster was in that game was the game plan, and offensive line! Oh BTW that 5th round pick at OG was starting for that game, and was benched for Urbik not long after. At that particular time the Bills were fielding the very worst offensive line in the entire NFL. Five dropped passes by the receivers, and multiple penalties by the O line didn't help in that game. The final score of that game was only 17-23, and the Bills were in that game until the very end. That Houston game was a game the Bills could have won with a better game plan. The Bills had the better RB's, and defense. I have no idea what this current coaching staff is thinking in terms of the QB for this season. Starting Matt Cassel might be the safer choice if all you are aiming for is a winning season, and that prospect is somewhat iffy considering Cassel's injury history along with some really bad seasons at KC.Lets not forget that at the end a healthy Cassel was benched in favor of Brady Quinn. Taylor looks to be an exciting play maker, and should be so until any injury to his wheels forces him to be strictly a pocket passer...then what? I would think that further trying to develop that #1 pick at QB with only 14 games under his belt should be the primary concern here, and hopefully it is! Yeah, it's all the coaches fault. Having your 1 and 2 RB's go down and having to put it in the hands of the QB is not something a QB should ever have to do. Who was Bradys RB last year? You think Brady just folded because he had a scrub RB and had to become the only option for them?
LB3 Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) 100% right. We are shopping EJ according to my inside guy, TT gettin the Indy start. I like EJ a lot, hope he lights it up. Either way thats good for us and good for him. This makes two. Metz said he heard similarly today. I'm happy the decision is TT over Cassel, if this is true. Edited August 28, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall
MDH Posted August 28, 2015 Posted August 28, 2015 Actually he stated exactly what others think. It likely is going to be 3 QBs. Brown didn't imply it was those three. Neither did Rex. You're delusional if you try to read too much into what he said. Simms has a very real possibility of being that 3rd QB, with his connection to Rex. Simms has no chance to be on the 53. Zero. Simms has a chance of hanging on with the practice squad and that's it.
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