Some redemption for Incognito? Jonathan Martin opens up

[vincec]

The usual revisionist BS. If Incognito had signed with the Patriots he'd be getting lambasted on TSW. Now that he's a Bill he's a poor misunderstood soul that's being persecuted by the man. Kind of like Tom Brady in Patriot fan's eyes. Of course once he leaves via free agency he'll be scum again.

[Mister Defense]

The usual revisionist BS. If Incognito had signed with the Patriots he'd be getting lambasted on TSW. Now that he's a Bill he's a poor misunderstood soul that's being persecuted by the man. Kind of like Tom Brady in Patriot fan's eyes. Of course once he leaves via free agency he'll be scum again.

 

Huh?

 

Have you even read today's article with Martin's quotes? He was a fragile mess, by his own volition.

 

Just bashing for the sake of bashing here vince, with nothing of substance in your attack. And you go after all of TSW.

 

So, I guess it makes sense that you feel this way as it is what you do here yourself--irrational bashing.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Mister Defense

[JohnC]

Meh. Was he a ferocious bully? No. A major idiot still? Yea

When all is said and done Incognito was unfairly characterized in the Miami situation. No one is suggesting that Incognito didn't act foolishly and inappropriately. But I truly believe that even the misguided/clueless Incognito would have acted more kindly toward Martin if Martin, who had his issues, would have told him that he didn't want to be subjected to his "tough guy" behavior.

 

Incognito recently made the claim that Wells who investigated the Miami situation gave a distorted report on the situation. RI said that in his report he left out the majority of responses from his teammates which in the minimum would have given a different perspective on the situation and would have put him in a more favorable light.

 

Wells and the league have a disturbing tendency to investigate cases in a way that reflect the public outcry over behavior rather than dispassionately investigate a high profile case and let the evidence speak for itself. In my view this is what also happened in the Rice and Brady case. Or to put it simply the outcome of the investigation is pre-determined by how the league office and RG want it to turn out.

 

Some people consider Incognito to be a bad guy. Even bad guys deserve to be treated fairly. As time has passed it is more evident to me that he wasn't treated fairly.

[Best Player Available]

Huh?

 

Have you even read today's article with Martin's quotes? He was a fragile mess, by his own volition.

 

Just bashing for the sake of bashing here vine, with nothing of substance in your attack. And you go after all of TSW.

 

So, I guess it makes sense that you feel this way as it is what you do here yourself--irrational bashing.

say Wha?

[Nick the Greek]

Depression is real. He was probably somewhat depressed before he got involved with Richie. Suicide attempts are anything to laugh about. Let hope he gets the help he needs.

[NoSaint]

When all is said and done Incognito was unfairly characterized in the Miami situation. No one is suggesting that Incognito didn't act foolishly and inappropriately. But I truly believe that even the misguided/clueless Incognito would have acted more kindly toward Martin if Martin, who had his issues, would have told him that he didn't want to be subjected to his "tough guy" behavior.

 

Incognito recently made the claim that Wells who investigated the Miami situation gave a distorted report on the situation. RI said that in his report he left out the majority of responses from his teammates which in the minimum would have given a different perspective on the situation and would have put him in a more favorable light.

 

Wells and the league have a disturbing tendency to investigate cases in a way that reflect the public outcry over behavior rather than dispassionately investigate a high profile case and let the evidence speak for itself. In my view this is what also happened in the Rice and Brady case. Or to put it simply the outcome of the investigation is pre-determined by how the league office and RG want it to turn out.

 

Some people consider Incognito to be a bad guy. Even bad guys deserve to be treated fairly. As time has passed it is more evident to me that he wasn't treated fairly.

I'll agree with much of the sentiment. You know how I feel about the nfl investigation process.

 

One spot I'm a bit iffy is the idea that Richie was clueless to martins struggles. If you recall, within days (hours?) of this breaking Ritchie's dad was posting online about suicide attempts and some hateful stuff towards the guy. RI knew he was troubled, but perhaps didn't connect himself as part of the trouble.

 

I admittedly bit on the bully hook early, as RI was the text book head case it made sense coming from... But as more facts came out I veered towards it being simply an idiot meat head being next to a dude with tons of self image issues and in a setting that allowed the bad combo to spiral out of control like it couldn't in most work places.

 

Richie was still very inappropriate and at best clueless or at worst intentional with his interactions. Neither reflects upon him as redeeming but I suppose dumb is better than cruel.

[bbb]

 

Thanks.

 

Do you know why?

 

I really don't. I think it was considered too controversial at one time maybe?

[vincec]

 

Huh?

 

Have you even read today's article with Martin's quotes? He was a fragile mess, by his own volition.

 

Just bashing for the sake of bashing here vine, with nothing of substance in your attack. And you go after all of TSW.

 

So, I guess it makes sense that you feel this way as it is what you do here yourself--irrational bashing.

The fact that Jonathan Martin was hurting while Incognito was leading his bullying is even more reason that Incognito is trash. That's how bullies work. They pick on the people that are easy targets and don't stand up for themselves. If Incognito were a good guy and good teammate he would try to pick him up and give him strength, not run him down for amusement.

 

I think you need to go back and review the report on his actions and comments and then explain to me how they were "taken out of context" or how they could possibly be justified. I strongly suspect that the reason there is such a large number of posters defending this behavior is that he is now a Bill. I see people attack guys like Fitz and Spiller and Levitre, hoping that they flop now that they've left, while defending Incognito. It's an agenda.

Edited August 27, 2015 by vincec

[3rdand12]

So at one point this year after Cogs was picked up a lengthy article was written about how he has tried to recover from all his issues.
i dont link and dont care to.

But the thing is Richie had an interesting upbringing too.

And the article was him speaking to what he has been doing to overcome his issues and being self aware. I thought it was very honest. and reflective.

 

I gained an appreciation for his efforts. Whether he succeeds i dont know. But i sure dont look at him as i once did before and during the Martin incident.

 

Martin? Meh. what has he done to help himself?

we all have to go to work on our problems. and some more than others.

ask me how i know. or dont actually.

 

luka, someone should intervene with you and soon

Edited August 27, 2015 by 3rdand12

[FireChan]

The fact that Jonathan Martin was hurting while Incognito was leading his bullying is even more reason that Incognito is trash. That's how bullies work. They pick on the people that are easy targets and don't stand up for themselves. If Incognito were a good guy and good teammate he would try to pick him up and give him strength, not run him down for amusement.

 

I think you need to go back and review the report on his actions and comments and then explain to me how they were "taken out of context" or how they could possibly be justified. I strongly suspect that the reason there is such a large number of posters defending this behavior is that he is now a Bill. I see people attack guys like Fitz and Spiller and Levitre, hoping that they flop now that they've left, while defending Incognito. It's an agenda.

Some of the same folks "defending" Incognito have had the same positions for 2 years.

 

Also, is Incognito supposed to be a mind reader? Martin played along in the texts, giving as good as he got, like friends ribb each other all the time in this setting. Sounds like you didn't read the whole story.

[bonechiller]

In my opinion, they are both a mess and unstable.( though I love richie)

 

Unfortunately, they were the worst two personalities to try to mesh in the same locker room, not a chance!

[vincec]

Some of the same folks "defending" Incognito have had the same positions for 2 years.

 

Also, is Incognito supposed to be a mind reader? Martin played along in the texts, giving as good as he got, like friends ribb each other all the time in this setting. Sounds like you didn't read the whole story.

I read the entire Wells report. Don't ask me why but I did. It doesn't read the way you are indicating. Martin was visibly upset by much of the treatment. In some cases it may have been less clear but overall it was obvious to many of his other teammates that he was upset by it. It should have been clear to Incognito as well, and probably was.

[Rob's House]

The fact that Jonathan Martin was hurting while Incognito was leading his bullying is even more reason that Incognito is trash. That's how bullies work. They pick on the people that are easy targets and don't stand up for themselves. If Incognito were a good guy and good teammate he would try to pick him up and give him strength, not run him down for amusement.

 

I think you need to go back and review the report on his actions and comments and then explain to me how they were "taken out of context" or how they could possibly be justified. I strongly suspect that the reason there is such a large number of posters defending this behavior is that he is now a Bill. I see people attack guys like Fitz and Spiller and Levitre, hoping that they flop now that they've left, while defending Incognito. It's an agenda.

I can't speak for everyone, but I've defended Incognito despite the fact that I didn't like him before the Martin thing ever happened, because I don't think he did what he was accused of. It's easy to look back with the benefit of hindsight and say he shouldn't have !@#$ed with Martin while he was struggling with his self-image, but it's pretty clear that Martin covered up his feelings about the "bullying" and played it off like it was a friendly back and forth.

 

The rest of the team was surprised by the accusations too. They thought RI & JM were best friends. And the guys that were in that locker room and knew the situation a hell of a lot better than you, I, or Ted "Whitewash" Wells had RI's back.

 

You don't have to think someone's a great guy to think he shouldn't be villified for something he didn't do.

I read the entire Wells report. Don't ask me why but I did. It doesn't read the way you are indicating. Martin was visibly upset by much of the treatment. In some cases it may have been less clear but overall it was obvious to many of his other teammates that he was upset by it. It should have been clear to Incognito as well, and probably was.

And some of the players in that locker room said the Wells report was misleading and that some of the situations he included, even if factually accurate in a literal sense, were mischaracterized.

[What a Tuel]

Meh. Was he a ferocious bully? No. A major idiot still? Yea

 

Well yeah, I wouldn't say he was someone I would want to be friends with, he actually sounded like a douche. But like you said, a ferocious bully? No. Just an idiot.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Reading the BR article out today it is clear that Martin has led a very sad life and that he is an extremely troubled and insecure person. He contemplated and attempted suicide on numerous occasions.

 

I am not without empathy for Martin, but it is clear that this now retired player is not someone who was capable of dealing with normal life pressures. Of course, a career in professional sports means a great deal more pressure.

 

Incognito's life and career were almost ruined by the accusations and fallout. To me, the article, Martin's words especially, put things into better perspective and made me understand more fully why so many in the Dolphins' locker room supported Richie.

 

The classic bully is the guy who looks for the classic victim. The fact that Martin has come out and acknowledged the insecurities and anxieties and personal problems that made him the perfect victim, does not change the fact that Incognito was the perfect bully in that situation.

 

It was not a novel and out of character behavior set for Incognito, either - he had mad problems way back, some of which he seemed to have resolved with the Dolphins and some of which he has hopefully resolved since.

[LA Grant]

 

The classic bully is the guy who looks for the classic victim. The fact that Martin has come out and acknowledged the insecurities and anxieties and personal problems that made him the perfect victim, does not change the fact that Incognito was the perfect bully in that situation.

 

It was not a novel and out of character behavior set for Incognito, either - he had mad problems way back, some of which he seemed to have resolved with the Dolphins and some of which he has hopefully resolved since.

 

This is exactly right. Everybody has their flaws and problems, everyone's on their own journey. Sometimes like with Incognito and Martin, they're the right mixture of traits that leads to a dramatic combustion like we saw with the Dolphins.

 

For the Bills, my feeling is that this is going to work out well for them. Richie is a good ballplayer and for the next two years I think he will be an ideal citizen. After that, maybe he gets more comfortable, maybe he falls back into old habits — but by that time, he'll probably be too old to be a viable starter and will have outlived his usefulness for the team.

[K8prisoner]

the naming file for a football team leaked over here like a fart of rf radiation that will affect week 3 as many nflers quit to pursue other interest in 2015..

 

 

its smells like microwaves piggybacked w brain wave frequency from kraft saying... we aren't sooo bad.. as kraft stock goes uip while ythe dow loses 100 points in another Khazar social experiment that also robs us like 1929 til now..

 

pffft. ahem,, sorry

 

Khazars from MARS... (kinda) or

 

 

 

 

space alien from the Pentagon.

 

watch the lying shies ...after 9/11 through the popes visit 9/27.. if you can see past the tic tac toe game..

 

 

 

or like yours

 

 

THe cell towers look an awful lot like necromonger antenna Riddick flies thgrough the atmosphere of the planet...

 

so... how about Mind control works. !! yippie,, as the monty python foot stomps him out, moral hazard has a price,,, sleep deprivation .. ( how come you lay awake all night long) just like they have been perfecting in jails, homeless shelters, many worse than jails, nothing worse than a selfrighteous leftie that has punishment aka tough love for jesus complex..'in his hands'

 

Wee.. the three little piggies that are on the boards of the fed BIS and ImF etc .. are just killing left and right microbiologists from Darpa, planes full of Freescale employees and they are

as all the scientist were shot and some dude from Alabama that don't speaka dee ingless so darn good takes over as base commander for the www towers and Haarp and after being let fgo for spying on his daughters classmate in the shower using surveillance tech... Suddenly realizes as the prioe base commander wsas killed by one of the 50 scientists that the Rothschild holding company had on its list of ... things To Do. Realizes That he rules the World aand promptly uses a harmonic of the frequencies of the the guys smart car ( that fired him jerkin off on company time) on demand the cell phone in his pockets to trangulate correct harmonic to stop his heart..'in the land of nod he gets paid by thsose who learned to block its affects 60 years ago 28 yeares after the we downloaded the plans for it..( aka Contact) andas we met or less benevolent neighbor that wants to enslave our race just like ythe banksyter enslaved us... (slaver fight)...so we started experimenting in the name of ww III , next in combimnation they start casing earthquakes and SKYNET yerminator is born out good ole rtationalied intent along w vcell towers and heavy metals (to nbetter control you with my pretty) and as our will dissolves , a work of art

mass shootings (the show) has gone on the road playing at a temple or mosqe near you, in Mandarin... all the way frpm cell towers maintained by general dynamic from a trillion dollar a year company called American Tower (AMT) etc .. name of the song, life on ,marsd into martian monsdter (phish blows) all the way back to mind control 101 sugaree.... who can stop what must arrive now..

Edited August 27, 2015 by K8prisoner

[bbb]

[LB3]

S***. Just. Got. Real.

[Felonious Monk]

the naming file for a football team leaked over here like a fart of rf radiation that will affect week 3 as many nflers quit to pursue other interest in 2015..

 

 

its smells like microwaves piggybacked w brain wave frequency from kraft saying... we aren't sooo bad.. as kraft stock goes uip while ythe dow loses 100 points in another Khazar social experiment that also robs us like 1929 til now..

 

pffft. ahem,, sorry

 

Khazars from MARS... (kinda) or

 

 

 

 

space alien from the Pentagon.

 

watch the lying shies ...after 9/11 through the popes visit 9/27.. if you can see past the tic tac toe game..

 

 

 

or like yours

 

 

THe cell towers look an awful lot like necromonger antenna Riddick flies thgrough the atmosphere of the planet...

 

so... how about Mind control works. !! yippie,, as the monty python foot stomps him out, moral hazard has a price,,, sleep deprivation .. ( how come you lay awake all night long) just like they have been perfecting in jails, homeless shelters, many worse than jails, nothing worse than a selfrighteous leftie that has punishment aka tough love for jesus complex..'in his hands'

 

Wee.. the three little piggies that are on the boards of the fed BIS and ImF etc .. are just killing left and right microbiologists from Darpa, planes full of Freescale employees and they are

as all the scientist were shot and some dude from Alabama that don't speaka dee ingless so darn good takes over as base commander for the www towers and Haarp and after being let fgo for spying on his daughters classmate in the shower using surveillance tech... Suddenly realizes as the prioe base commander wsas killed by one of the 50 scientists that the Rothschild holding company had on its list of ... things To Do. Realizes That he rules the World aand promptly uses a harmonic of the frequencies of the the guys smart car ( that fired him jerkin off on company time) on demand the cell phone in his pockets to trangulate correct harmonic to stop his heart..'in the land of nod he gets paid by thsose who learned to block its affects 60 years ago 28 yeares after the we downloaded the plans for it..( aka Contact) andas we met or less benevolent neighbor that wants to enslave our race just like ythe banksyter enslaved us... (slaver fight)...so we started experimenting in the name of ww III , next in combimnation they start casing earthquakes and SKYNET yerminator is born out good ole rtationalied intent along w vcell towers and heavy metals (to nbetter control you with my pretty) and as our will dissolves , a work of art

mass shootings (the show) has gone on the road playing at a temple or mosqe near you, in Mandarin... all the way frpm cell towers maintained by general dynamic from a trillion dollar a year company called American Tower (AMT) etc .. name of the song, life on ,marsd into martian monsdter (phish blows) all the way back to mind control 101 sugaree.... who can stop what must arrive now..

Don't know why, but I'm curious as to which part you edited.