Bangarang Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 Okay, they had Leveon Bell as a 3rd and Kiko in the same rd as EJ. Dee Milliner in the 1st. Guess their scouting dept hit a HR!! The issue was whether EJ was rated as a mid round prospect to any other team. The link I posted shows he most certainly was, so the notion that EJ was universally viewed as 1st or 2nd round prospect is absolutely false. I have no problem with actually taking him in the 1st round and hope Whaley uses a 1st on a QB next year. We tried it with EJ and it didn't work. It happens every year. Let's not rewrite history though.
LB3 Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 The problem is, Try to actually find a video of EJ doing what TT is doing in that video. After 3 years, just find one highlight. I can't easily find one. The OP of the question seems to be saying that TT can't and EJ can. We have evidence of TT throwing a 20 yard out. Seriously I'd like to see one of EJ. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ej+manuel+highlights#
TSOL Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 Not an out pattern, but these ones looks good http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000294203/EJ-Manuel-throws-3rd-interception http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000382354/Manuel-intercepted-by-Goldson Sort of an out pattern Only way for an NFl QB to NOT throw int's is to not throw at all. So maybe Tyrod is tge perfect guy for you
VABills Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 Only way for an NFl QB to NOT throw int's is to not throw at all. So maybe Tyrod is tge perfect guy for you Well one to be said about the Watts throw. It wasn't like the defense had to get back on the field quickly and get tired. They couldn't use that excuse of how many times EJ can't sustain drives and the defense is exhausted.
Solomon Grundy Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 I tend to agree but recently there are more examples than just Rodgers that have done well out of the gate. I think the 4 years on the bench shouldn't be overlooked. Guys with immediate impact: Colin Kaepernick - 1 year on bench, 17-6 over first 2 years starting (5-2, 12-4) Russell Wilson - 0 years on bench, 24-8 over first 2 years starting (11-5, 13-3) Joe Flacco, 0 years, 20-12 (11-5, 9-7) Andy Dalton - 0 years, 19-13 (9-7, 10-6) Tony Romo - 2 years, 19-7 (6-4, 13-3) Andrew Luck - 0 years, 22-10 first 2 years (11-5, 11-5) I'm sure there are others. I don't see why TT couldn't do as well as Kaepernick and Wilson. Quite a few similarities between their play type and strength of team defense. I'd argue this team has more offensive play makers as well. I know there are more examples of guys that struggle early, I'm just saying it's not crazy to suggest Tyrod goes 10-6 or 11-5. My bigger concern is actually injury. Disco, the problem here is that most of the QBs listed here played 2x the games as EJ. They were able to learn and progress as they played. EJ shoulda been able to do the same, play and progress. He shouldn't have been handcuffed. He is smart enough to learn from his mistakes. In the 15 games he's played, you rarely seen him make the same mistake. Let him play
TSOL Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 Well one to be said about the Watts throw. It wasn't like the defense had to get back on the field quickly and get tired. They couldn't use that excuse of how many times EJ can't sustain drives and the defense is exhausted. You ever see Jim Kelly play those 4 int games that we still won?
VABills Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 You ever see Jim Kelly play those 4 int games that we still won? Ej Manuel is not Jim Kelly. Disco, the problem here is that most of the QBs listed here played 2x the games as EJ. They were able to learn and progress as they played. EJ shoulda been able to do the same, play and progress. He shouldn't have been handcuffed. He is smart enough to learn from his mistakes. In the 15 games he's played, you rarely seen him make the same mistake. Let him play REally, he was so bad, his last game starting and making the same mistakes, even worse, which is what got him benched.
TSOL Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 Ej Manuel is not Jim Kelly. Hes not JP Losman either
VABills Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 Hes not JP Losman either Losman was better. At least with out WR's Losman would constantly hit guys in stride. You also never heard him hit a test, cameraman on sidelines. Now EJ is a much classier and nicer guy. Losman got his leg broke pissing off his teammmates.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 Are people still defending a QB who is running the scout team in his 3rd year? Let's just sit EJ for his entire rookie contract, give him an extension and see if he can win a competition against a couple of backups in his 7th year. After all, the kid was a project. The Cowboys had him as a 4th round prospect.http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/5/30/4378574/dallas-cowboys-2013-draft-board-leaked-almost-complete-7-round-board When is the last time the Cowboys drafted a good Quarterback? Troy Aikman, 26 years ago?
TSOL Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Losman was better. At least with out WR's Losman would constantly hit guys in stride. You also never heard him hit a test, cameraman on sidelines. Now EJ is a much classier and nicer guy. Losman got his leg broke pissing off his teammmates. You clearly are not open to any sort of reasonable debate Edited August 27, 2015 by mastershake
VABills Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 You clearly are not open to any sort of reasonable debate You trying to compare EJ to Kelly is unreasonable. Thats like trying to compare Bryce Brown to Thurman Thomas.
TSOL Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 You trying to compare EJ to Kelly is unreasonable. Thats like trying to compare Bryce Brown to Thurman Thomas. Twist words much? I never compared him to Kelly. You posting those two ints is absurd. Quartebacks throw ints, and win games nature of the business. Running Qbs do not throw as many simple as that. If want a QB with no interceptions, Tyrods probably youre best bet, thats all i wanted to point out. I think Tyrods gonna break our heart personally
dave mcbride Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 When is the last time the Cowboys drafted a good Quarterback? Troy Aikman, 26 years ago? Fwiw, I think that signing a UDFA that you've targeted immediately after the draft is basically the same as drafting a player (e.g., Jason Peters). Romo certainly qualifies, and he is a darn good QB. From wikipedia: "Romo attended the 2003 NFL Combine. Despite intriguing some scouts, he went undrafted by any NFL team during the 2003 NFL Draft. Throughout the draft, Romo was assured by Sean Payton of the Cowboys' interest (Romo was also intensely pursued by former Denver Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan),[12] and shortly afterwards was signed as an undrafted rookie free agent by the Cowboys."
DirtDart Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 I bet y’all are thrilled to have another thread about QB’s. Well, I haven’t posted since last year so I’m starting one whether you like it or not. Why should EJ Manuel be the starter in Week 1? It’s not because he’s the best QB on the roster, because right now he’s no better (or even as consistent) than the other two guys he’s competing with. It’s not because he gives the Bills the best chance to win in Week 1, because right now he probably doesn’t give them any better chance than either of the other guys. The reason he should start the first game of the season is because he gives the Bills the best chance to win a Super Bowl at some point in the next 5 years. I’ve been thinking about the dynamic we’ve been observing throughout this offseason and the one thing that keeps coming to the forefront, both with the fanbase and with the franchise, is that all anybody wants to talk about is making the playoffs this year. We’ve been irrelevant for so long that we’ve reached the point where just making the playoffs one time has become the Buffalo Bills ultimate goal. I think we’re so desperate to be relevant again that we’ve developed an acute case of short-sighted tunnel vision which is making us incapable of seeing the big picture or looking any further down the road than our own hood ornament. Why is this a problem? Because our narrow-minded need for the short-term quick fix of a single playoff appearance may well cost us the opportunity to win a loftier prize in the near future. For 2 decades the Bills have been desperately wishing for a “franchise” QB to lead this team. For the first time in ages we actually have a high character, blue chip athlete with a big arm and a world-class work ethic sitting right in our laps. He’s played less than a season’s worth of NFL football under an asshat of a coach and behind an atrocious OLine; yet despite that embarrassing lack of support we’ve all watched this kid steadily improve since the day he was drafted. And now suddenly we want to stick him at the end of the bench and stop his development dead in its tracks to take a flier on some other guy who might or might not be marginally better at the moment, just because we are so desperate to make the playoffs one time?! Frag that noise. I don’t want to make the playoffs one time, I want to make multiple championship runs over the next 5-7 years; and the Bills are well-positioned to do just that if they can smartly develop a “franchise” QB to go with the ton of talent they have accumulated all over the roster. Matt Cassell is not ever going to be that guy, Tyrod Taylor is not ever going to be that guy. But unlike those two, EJ Manuel has the god-given toolbox and the natural skillset to become exactly that guy. Do we really want to kick the potential franchise QB we’ve been waiting 20 years for to the curb for what may or may not be an incremental short-term improvement because we’ve become so pathetically desperate that our big goal has now been reduced to making the playoffs one time? I say the hell with being the scared, desperate little ninnies who are so afraid of mistakes that we’re not willing to dare greatly. The hell with playing it safe when there’s a chance for glory sitting right there in front of us if we’re bold enough to risk it. The hell with just making the playoffs this year when being resolute and steadfast might lead to the grand prize down the road. Put Manuel out there in Week 1 and let him make the mistakes that he needs to make before he can learn to eliminate them. Give him the realistic chance to continue the progress he’s clearly been making and to possibly reach the level that can get us over the top. If he stops improving, then we can turn to our Brad Johnson or our Doug Flutie and play for just one year. But don’t start with one of those guys at the expense of developing the kid that might be exactly who and what we’ve been desperately seeking for 20 years. Wow, That is the most coherent argument I have ever heard. You said exactly what I have been saying. I agree 100%.
Solomon Grundy Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 Losman was better. At least with out WR's Losman would constantly hit guys in stride. You also never heard him hit a test, cameraman on sidelines. Now EJ is a much classier and nicer guy. Losman got his leg broke pissing off his teammmates. Losman was FAR from better than EJ Manuel!! Losman couldn't throw an out pattern. Balls bounced in front if receivers. Slants/crossing patterns were out if the question. He had NO leadership qualities. JP Lisman was a 1 truck pony Losman was great for the community though.
jeffismagic Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 The issue was whether EJ was rated as a mid round prospect to any other team. The link I posted shows he most certainly was, so the notion that EJ was universally viewed as 1st or 2nd round prospect is absolutely false. I have no problem with actually taking him in the 1st round and hope Whaley uses a 1st on a QB next year. We tried it with EJ and it didn't work. It happens every year. Let's not rewrite history though. No, that was not the issue I raised. Anti-EJ people have been saying , "EJ was really a third or 4th round pick." They were not saying opinions may vary. If that was the case, sure. You can say that about a lot of players. They were making a much stronger case than what you are describing which requires much stronger evidence that they never have provided. The most important team for me is the Bills. They believed that EJ was the best QB on their board AND that he would not be available much later. If you are saying the Bills don't have enough sense to know how to get value in the draft and drafted him 3 rounds before anyone else would, go ahead. Make that case.
Pete Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 What I love what EJ brings to the table is that he throws a beautiful deep ball. That is what this team needs! Everyone knows we are going to run the ball, and stopping the run will be the opposing teams priority. With the speed and playmaking of Sammy, Woods, Harvin, Clay, Goodwin, Deonte- we need a QB that can take the top off, and make teams respect the big play. Which in turn, opens up the running game. Power football, with big shots taken repeatedly suits this offense.
jeffismagic Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) EJ also excels at play-action. He never got to do it last year in his short time because our coaches were awful. Edited August 27, 2015 by jeffismagic
Kelly the Dog Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 Fwiw, I think that signing a UDFA that you've targeted immediately after the draft is basically the same as drafting a player (e.g., Jason Peters). Romo certainly qualifies, and he is a darn good QB. From wikipedia: "Romo attended the 2003 NFL Combine. Despite intriguing some scouts, he went undrafted by any NFL team during the 2003 NFL Draft. Throughout the draft, Romo was assured by Sean Payton of the Cowboys' interest (Romo was also intensely pursued by former Denver Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan),[12] and shortly afterwards was signed as an undrafted rookie free agent by the Cowboys." No it's not. Because it's a QB. If you really thought he had a chance you would take him in the sixth or seventh round. It's luck if you don't even bother doing that. I think that players are equal that are signed right away to the seventh and probably sixth rounders. But if you think a QB has a decent shot you do not let him go undrafted.
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