Why EJ Manuel should start in Week 1

[BmarvB]

I bet y’all are thrilled to have another thread about QB’s. Well, I haven’t posted since last year so I’m starting one whether you like it or not.

 

Why should EJ Manuel be the starter in Week 1? It’s not because he’s the best QB on the roster, because right now he’s no better (or even as consistent) than the other two guys he’s competing with. It’s not because he gives the Bills the best chance to win in Week 1, because right now he probably doesn’t give them any better chance than either of the other guys. The reason he should start the first game of the season is because he gives the Bills the best chance to win a Super Bowl at some point in the next 5 years.

I’ve been thinking about the dynamic we’ve been observing throughout this offseason and the one thing that keeps coming to the forefront, both with the fanbase and with the franchise, is that all anybody wants to talk about is making the playoffs this year. We’ve been irrelevant for so long that we’ve reached the point where just making the playoffs one time has become the Buffalo Bills ultimate goal. I think we’re so desperate to be relevant again that we’ve developed an acute case of short-sighted tunnel vision which is making us incapable of seeing the big picture or looking any further down the road than our own hood ornament. Why is this a problem? Because our narrow-minded need for the short-term quick fix of a single playoff appearance may well cost us the opportunity to win a loftier prize in the near future.

For 2 decades the Bills have been desperately wishing for a “franchise” QB to lead this team. For the first time in ages we actually have a high character, blue chip athlete with a big arm and a world-class work ethic sitting right in our laps. He’s played less than a season’s worth of NFL football under an asshat of a coach and behind an atrocious OLine; yet despite that embarrassing lack of support we’ve all watched this kid steadily improve since the day he was drafted. And now suddenly we want to stick him at the end of the bench and stop his development dead in its tracks to take a flier on some other guy who might or might not be marginally better at the moment, just because we are so desperate to make the playoffs one time?! Frag that noise. I don’t want to make the playoffs one time, I want to make multiple championship runs over the next 5-7 years; and the Bills are well-positioned to do just that if they can smartly develop a “franchise” QB to go with the ton of talent they have accumulated all over the roster. Matt Cassell is not ever going to be that guy, Tyrod Taylor is not ever going to be that guy. But unlike those two, EJ Manuel has the god-given toolbox and the natural skillset to become exactly that guy. Do we really want to kick the potential franchise QB we’ve been waiting 20 years for to the curb for what may or may not be an incremental short-term improvement because we’ve become so pathetically desperate that our big goal has now been reduced to making the playoffs one time?

I say the hell with being the scared, desperate little ninnies who are so afraid of mistakes that we’re not willing to dare greatly. The hell with playing it safe when there’s a chance for glory sitting right there in front of us if we’re bold enough to risk it. The hell with just making the playoffs this year when being resolute and steadfast might lead to the grand prize down the road. Put Manuel out there in Week 1 and let him make the mistakes that he needs to make before he can learn to eliminate them. Give him the realistic chance to continue the progress he’s clearly been making and to possibly reach the level that can get us over the top. If he stops improving, then we can turn to our Brad Johnson or our Doug Flutie and play for just one year. But don’t start with one of those guys at the expense of developing the kid that might be exactly who and what we’ve been desperately seeking for 20 years.

 

 

You do have a very good point. Can't help but agree with you. This guy is is working his way through a lot of adversity, and he really is improving. He has a lot of the qualities of a franchise QB. He just has to play and develop. I do like Cassel as his veteran backup, but Cassel is not the long term solution. I do like Taylor, but would have to say the jury is still out on him being the long term answer at QB.

Edited August 27, 2015 by BmarvB

[Solomon Grundy]

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/08/27/bills-look-to-turn-risks-into-rewards/

 

Tyler Dunne's take today:

 

"8. EJ Manuel cant be trusted. Dont be fooled by his preseason numbers (13 of 22 for 188 yards, two touchdowns). Manuels practice tape is littered with one incomplete pass into the hospitality tent, one that drilled a cameraman on the sideline and several fumbled snaps. Every 45-yard strike in stride is followed by two or three or four head-scratching throws, which is why Taylor and Cassel have been the quarterbacks getting virtually all of the No. 1 reps. Buffalo took a chance on Manuel at No. 16 overall two years ago. Maybe it was the perfect storm for all the wrong reasons Kaepernick had just torched Green Bay for 444 total yards and four touchdowns, Robert Griffin III was the rookie of the year, Cam Newton and Russell Wilson were ripping through defenses by air and ground. Manuel seemed like a read-option threat and the Bills were dead-set on taking a quarterback. They simply took one in a horrendous draft class for the position."

 

Whatever we think, he's not going to start.

Tyler, what makes us think we can trust Matt Cassel? He's only been a turnover machine that last couple of years. Trust Tyrod Taylor? Who knows. EJ Manuel has played in NFL, won games and has a positive TD/INT. As a rookie Manuel threw for 293 yards in his second game of his career. Every QB in the league has missed throws!! Having mistrust because of missed throws are preposterous. Especially when the missed throw doesn't result in a turnover

[Gordio]

I just don't think he has the natural skillset to be that guy you can trot out there for the next 5-10 years. I haven't seen him as much as I'd like yet, but I don't see that real live arm you want in a guy who can make throws to every part of the field. His greatest asset is his quicks, but as he gets older and takes a couple years of NFL pounding, that's going to become less of an advantage over time. Not to mention that when defenses starting playing a contain game against him and force him to work from the pocket, that's going to create a myriad of issues for him. I also worry about his stature as I don't know if he as the frame to take a lot of hits and still remain healthy.

Seems like a great kid and a hard worker and I'd love to see the Bills create some packages for him where he gets 1 - 4 possessions a game, depending on the opponent. But relying on him to work from the pocket for 16 games a year might be asking a bit too much.

 

 

 

This kind of thinking has also been creeping into the back of my head for a while. But I am also being resistant to it as wishful thinking

 

 

All I could say is I actually went to the first home preseason game against Carolina & I could tell you there is nothing wrong with Taylor's arm. His balls had zip on them. Right now there is a reason why EJ is running with the scout team & that is because Cassel & TT have outplayed him in minicamp/training camp. This can not be disputed. Every report from the media that you here is that this is a fact. I laugh when you suggest that TT could never be a franchise QB but you give Manuel a chance to. There is not one thing on the football field that Manuel does better than TT at this point but your so certain that TT can never make it. With that being said I am a firm believer that they could win with any of the 3 QB's. I think the roster is that loaded & I have that much faith in our OC. I hope it is TT though. I think he could do things on the field that the other 2 QBs on this roster just can't do.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Gordio

[BackInDaDay]

I think the roster is that loaded & I have that much faith in our OC. I hope it is TT though. I think he could do things on the field that the other 2 QBs on this roster just can't do.

 

i can only go by what i've seen in pre-season games, and i would agree with this..

what we don't know, is how he compares to the others in terms of getting things right pre and post snap - at least to the OC's liking. the fact that he and Cassel seem to be running 1/2 in the competition makes me think they're close enough that TT's playmaking skills could get him the job

[GunnerBill]

 

There is not one thing on the football field that Manuel does better than TT at this point.

 

Not sure I agree with that - but I do agree that overall he is ahead of EJ and would have more chance of success this season as the starter.

[TSOL]

God it's so boring around here when everyone agrees, or argues reasonably.

 

I think EJ should start because the other two guys SUCK! Id rather have Orton again than Cassel, I think Orton is a better QB than "Sand" Cassel.

 

And as far as Tyrod, he's only getting the media love and uneducated fan support because he's not EJ. So everyone's trying to latch on to Tyrod, thinking he's the next best thing, only because we haven't seen him play. Where with EJ, most of you have already made up your mind about him.

 

But think about this, what running QB has had success in the NFL? Think of the greatest running QB's, we know the names, I'm not going to list them here. What physical state are those guys in, what has any running QB ever won? Those guy, the great ones, are a mess and a shell of themselves very very quickly within a couple seasons. Tyrod is not Mike Vick, RG 3, or Russel Wilson, he's not even close to those guys. And those guys are a wreck!

 

I hesitate to even put Wilson in that category because he has such a unique skill set and has greatly benefitted from an organization with with ALOT going for them. Its just come together for Wilson in a better than perfect system, so lets not even attempt to compare any of these guys to him, because he can elude the rush, but he can put a dagger through your heart with his arm.

 

Cassel sucks

Tyrod sucks (Rex definatly plays favorites)

Must start EJ

Anything else would be idiotic!

[PolishDave]

God it's so boring around here when everyone agrees, or argues reasonably.

 

I think EJ should start because the other two guys SUCK! Id rather have Orton again than Cassel, I think Orton is a better QB than "Sand" Cassel.

 

And as far as Tyrod, he's only getting the media love and uneducated fan support because he's not EJ. So everyone's trying to latch on to Tyrod, thinking he's the next best thing, only because we haven't seen him play. Where with EJ, most of you have already made up your mind about him.

 

But think about this, what running QB has had success in the NFL? Think of the greatest running QB's, we know the names, I'm not going to list them here. What physical state are those guys in, what has any running QB ever won? Those guy, the great ones, are a mess and a shell of themselves very very quickly within a couple seasons. Tyrod is not Mike Vick, RG 3, or Russel Wilson, he's not even close to those guys. And those guys are a wreck!

 

I hesitate to even put Wilson in that category because he has such a unique skill set and has greatly benefitted from an organization with with ALOT going for them. Its just come together for Wilson in a better than perfect system, so lets not even attempt to compare any of these guys to him, because he can elude the rush, but he can put a dagger through your heart with his arm.

 

Cassel sucks

Tyrod sucks (Rex definatly plays favorites)

Must start EJ

Anything else would be idiotic!

Lame take Drama Queen!

 

Tyrod hasn't proven himself to be a run first quarterback in the NFL. He does look like a guy who can avoid a pass rush 2 out of 3 times though. And still give you a chance to make a play either with his arm or yes, with his feet.

 

Ideally you have an elite pocket passer on your team like Brady, P. Manning or Brees. Unfortunately we don't have one of those on our team. You have to play with the card you are dealt. With this hand, Tyrod Taylor is the Jack of Clubs and Clubs are trump. Booyah!

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Dear Global Moss and or Administrators,

 

Can you set it up so that Quoted post are displayed on a standard size font? (12/14) (leaving bold's and colors [colours - for the Canadians].

 

thanks

Lame take Drama Queen!

 

Tyrod hasn't proven himself to be a run first quarterback in the NFL. He does look like a guy who can avoid a pass rush 2 out of 3 times though. And still give you a chance to make a play either with his arm or yes, with his feet.

Dear Dave - in all honesty

Tyrod hasn't proven himself anything yet in a REAL, LIVE NFL games now has he?

 

Nor has EJ and we all know what Cassel is.

Edited August 27, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[TSOL]

Lame take Drama Queen!

 

Tyrod hasn't proven himself to be a run first quarterback in the NFL. He does look like a guy who can avoid a pass rush 2 out of 3 times though. And still give you a chance to make a play either with his arm or yes, with his feet.

 

Ideally you have an elite pocket passer on your team like Brady, P. Manning or Brees. Unfortunately we don't have one of those on our team. You have to play with the card you are dealt. With this hand, Tyrod Taylor is the Jack of Clubs and Clubs are trump. Booyah!

Make no mistake Tyrod is ALL running QB. It is undeniably his greatest strength, his legs. He is one dimensional and does not scare anyone with his arm. This will be proved if Rex does as I expect, and starts his "fav" Tyrods gonna break your heart, son. The run first guys always do.

 

You're the first guy in the "Hey, he's not EJ so he must be good" line. I see it in all your posts. Tyrod is less proven than EJ even and you jumped on that bandwagon immediately.

 

I'll be here to remind you after a few games this season of that fact as well.

 

Long live the pocket passer!!

 

But for arguments sake, name me your favorite run first QB?

Edited August 27, 2015 by mastershake

[Solomon Grundy]

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/08/27/bills-look-to-turn-risks-into-rewards/

 

Tyler Dunne's take today:

 

"8. EJ Manuel cant be trusted. Dont be fooled by his preseason numbers (13 of 22 for 188 yards, two touchdowns). Manuels practice tape is littered with one incomplete pass into the hospitality tent, one that drilled a cameraman on the sideline and several fumbled snaps. Every 45-yard strike in stride is followed by two or three or four head-scratching throws, which is why Taylor and Cassel have been the quarterbacks getting virtually all of the No. 1 reps. Buffalo took a chance on Manuel at No. 16 overall two years ago. Maybe it was the perfect storm for all the wrong reasons Kaepernick had just torched Green Bay for 444 total yards and four touchdowns, Robert Griffin III was the rookie of the year, Cam Newton and Russell Wilson were ripping through defenses by air and ground. Manuel seemed like a read-option threat and the Bills were dead-set on taking a quarterback. They simply took one in a horrendous draft class for the position."

 

Whatever we think, he's not going to start.

Don't trust EJ Tyler? U trust Matt Cassel? A turnover machine the last couple of seasons. Tyrod Taylor an unknown? There's many reasons to "hate on" EJ, don't use trust as one

[PolishDave]

Dear Dave - in all honesty

Tyrod hasn't proven himself anything yet in a REAL, LIVE NFL games now has he?

 

Nor has EJ and we all know what Cassel is.

 

Tyrod has proven to be effective "so far". That doesn't mean he won't fail. Maybe he will. He represents hope in the fan base. Because he has given us zero reason so far to doubt he has what it takes. It is just that his sample size is too small.

 

Ej has proven what he is capable of if you take into consideration "every game he played as a Buffalo Bill" over his career. If you forget about his entire past and just look at this year's preseason games, in my opinion, he looks okay, not great. I don't think he is good enough at avoiding a pass rush and making a positive play on the same play. He has done it, but not often enough at all. He needs a nearly perfect pocket to play well through an entire series. That is why he looks so inconsistent in my opinion.

 

If we forget about every quarterback's past and just look at their play in the two preseason games, then I would rank their performance as #1 TT, #2 Cassel and #3 EJ. But I base my opinion on being able to move the chains consistently in each drive. I know that other people don't care about that. Some people care about other things.

 

I want an offense that can move the chains consistently in most drives that way they can step on the gas, get teams on their heels and then hit the big play. From what I have seen so far, TT is closer to being that guy than either of the other guys.

You're the first guy in the "Hey, he's not EJ so he must be good" line. I see it in all your posts. Tyrod is less proven than EJ even and you jumped on that bandwagon immediately.

 

I'll be here to remind you after a few games this season of that fact as well.

 

What is so wrong about rooting for the quarterback I think is the best?

 

I have said repeatedly that I (we) have a very small sample size for Tyrod. And based on that sample size, yes he looks like the best QB to me.

 

That doesn't mean my opinion of him can't change after seeing another game or two from him.

 

From what I have seen from EJ, he looks like he is not good enough. From what I have seen from Tyrod he looks like he is good enough, at least so far anyway. Time will tell.

 

Some of you guys have some kind of hardon for EJ where unless every Bills fan wants to annoint him savior, you have an issue with it. EJ rides the pine unless he gets better. Still my take.

[TSOL]

Tyrod has proven to be effective "so far". That doesn't mean he won't fail. Maybe he will. He represents hope in the fan base. Because he has given us zero reason so far to doubt he has what it takes. It is just that his sample size is too small.

 

Ej has proven what he is capable of if you take into consideration "every game he played as a Buffalo Bill" over his career. If you forget about his entire past and just look at this year's preseason games, in my opinion, he looks okay, not great. I don't think he is good enough at avoiding a pass rush and making a positive play on the same play. He has done it, but not often enough at all. He needs a nearly perfect pocket to play well through an entire series. That is why he looks so inconsistent in my opinion.

 

If we forget about every quarterback's past and just look at their play in the two preseason games, then I would rank their performance as #1 TT, #2 Cassel and #3 EJ. But I base my opinion on being able to move the chains consistently in each drive. I know that other people don't care about that. Some people care about other things.

 

I want an offense that can move the chains consistently in most drives that way they can step on the gas, get teams on their heels and then hit the big play. From what I have seen so far, TT is closer to being that guy than either of the other guys.

See that's the rub though Dave, Tyrod hasn't produced. He hasn't proven he can throw for a touchdown, which is what makes him one dimensional. If I see it, what do you think opposing DC's are gonna do. They are going to tear him, and our running game apart! It's great that he moves the chains, but once he gets into the red zone, where the field gets small, and he takes off, he's gonna be eaten alive.

 

Our offense is unproven, as much as we as Bills fans want to be optimistic on the season, our offense is not going to be taken seriously by other coaches til we prove it. We need a guy back there that can hit the intermediate to longer passes. It's the only way to win in the league. To prove, that even when game planned against we will still beat you. The only way to do that is with pinpoint passes downfield. EJ is undoubtedly the best guy for that job.

 

Starting either one of the other two guys is just Rex stroking himself.

 

And how the hell did you beat me to 1000 posts??

 

What is so wrong about rooting for the quarterback I think is the best?

Nothing at all, its a boring no news day so far so this place needs a good argument to spruce things up. Edited August 27, 2015 by mastershake

[dave mcbride]

Don't trust EJ Tyler? U trust Matt Cassel? A turnover machine the last couple of seasons. Tyrod Taylor an unknown? There's many reasons to "hate on" EJ, don't use trust as one

Don't confuse me with the reporter. I'm just posting what Dunne - a good reporter - wrote. He knows more than all of us.

[PolishDave]

See that's the rub though Dave, Tyrod hasn't produced. He hasn't proven he can throw for a touchdown, which is what makes him one dimensional. If I see it, what do you think opposing DC's are gonna do. They are going to tear him, and our running game apart! It's great that he moves the chains, but once he gets into the red zone, where the field gets small, and he takes off, he's gonna be eaten alive.

 

Our offense is unproven, as much as we as Bills fans want to be optimistic on the season, our offense is not going to be taken seriously by other coaches til we prove it. We need a guy back there that can hit the intermediate to longer passes. It's the only way to win in the league. To prove, that even when game planned against we will still beat you. The only way to do that is with pinpoint passes downfield. EJ is undoubtedly the best guy for that job.

 

 

No he isn't throwing touchdown passes. But he is throwing and throwing well. So, I don't see a reason to worry. His playing time has been very limited and his red zone playing time has been even more limited. So we don't know. Maybe he won't be a guy who can get it done in the red zone. That is a possibility. But, I am not worried about it at all. In fact, his play tells me that he will probably be one of the best at that skill even though he hasn't done it yet.

 

The thing that gives Tyrod the edge over the other guys in my mind is the fact that he moves the chains well while still making you think "a big play is coming." That combination has been missing from the Buffalo Bills for many years. That is what I want. I would prefer that the guy gets that done 90% with his arm and only 10% with his legs. But, if he ends up using more legs than that, then I will take it, happily. Move the chains, step on the gas and score. That is the offense I want.

 

Cassel gives me move the chains, take your foot off the gas, are we close enough to score.

 

EJ gives me don't move the chains, occasionally hit a hot streak and score.

 

Tyrod gives me move the chains, step on the gas, we're about to score.

 

Again with regards to Tyrod, the sample size is very small. Therefore opinion is subject to change.

[TSOL]

Startin Tyrod is gonna be like EJ startin to smoke cigarettes, its gonna stunt my boys growth!

[jeffismagic]

Are people still defending a QB who is running the scout team in his 3rd year?

 

Let's just sit EJ for his entire rookie contract, give him an extension and see if he can win a competition against a couple of backups in his 7th year. After all, the kid was a project.

 

 

The Cowboys had him as a 4th round prospect.

 

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/5/30/4378574/dallas-cowboys-2013-draft-board-leaked-almost-complete-7-round-board

 

That doesn't prove the point. Team draft boards are all over the place. This one you posted has Ryan Nassib and Matt Barkley as 2nd rounders! My point was that the anti-EJ people latch onto the strangest things. Was Kiko Alonso a 4th round pick? I am sure he was on some boards. Every player in the draft can only be remembered by where he was actually picked, with minor modifications.

 

So teams that need quarterback (such as the Bills) will take that position HIGHER than teams like the Cowboys who don't. So EJ Manuel was definitely going to be drafted by a team somewhere in the late 1st. The Bills decided to get their guy.

 

The Cowboys are also a terrible comparison. They have Tony Romo. For the QB position they might naturally favor higher floor/lower ceiling types. Nassib and Barkley were considered exactly that, good BACKUP quarterbacks on many team boards.

 

BTW, you know who else is a 4th rounder on the Cowboys board that the Bills graded out as a 1st round talent? Kiko Alonso!

 

This point about EJ being a mid-round pick would ONLY be valid if the Bills were the crazy team that had him where every other team had him low. You haven't demonstrated that. And until that is demonstrated you have to mention where he was drafted, not where you wish he was.

Edited August 27, 2015 by jeffismagic

[1B4IDie]

 

He didn't say he couldn't make the throw he said compare them and see the difference. That's not even an opposite hash throw and it's still not exactly a rope. TT has an advantage over Manuel in a few places, arm strength isn't one of them.

 

Not sure how stating that is "putting down TT." That's like saying that stating TT is a better runner than EJ is putting down EJ. It's just a fact.

The problem is, Try to actually find a video of EJ doing what TT is doing in that video.

 

After 3 years, just find one highlight.

 

I can't easily find one.

 

The OP of the question seems to be saying that TT can't and EJ can. We have evidence of TT throwing a 20 yard out. Seriously I'd like to see one of EJ.

Edited August 27, 2015 by 1B4IDie

[VABills]

The problem is, Try to actually find a video of EJ doing what TT is doing in that video.

 

After 3 years, just find one highlight.

 

I can't easily find one.

 

The OP of the question seems to be saying that TT can't and EJ can. We have evidence of TT throwing a 20 yard out. Seriously I'd like to see one of EJ.

Yes we do. The pass to JJ Watts that got him benched last year.

[1B4IDie]

I agree. Taylor doesn't have the prototypical size and cannon, but it seems like he has enough tools to succeed at a high level, IF he has the other qualities that a Drew Brees or Russell Wilson has. And that we just don't know either way.

 

I have been slow to judge EJ too harshly, but I definitely think the Bills should start Taylor.

 

Maybe it's the hangover from watching that Three for the Show vid on TT, or maybe it is indeed shiny new toy syndrome, but TT has a presence that I don't think EJ has. EJ is a great guy with lots of charisma, but I get the feeling sometimes that he is trying too hard to be "the guy" or "the leader" - he has an image in his head that isn't totally natural to him. And it shows in the pocket. He never really looks comfortable to me (even though he does seem a bit more at ease at the end of the game). I don't think TT is trying to be something. I think he just is "the guy" and I think teammates feel it. Also, he looks super comfortable in games to me - relaxed, like things are moving more slowly and clearly for him than everyone else.

 

I've been deluded before, but I am way in Taylor's corner right now, though I will cheer like crazy for whomever they select as the starter.

I'm not an EJ guy.

 

I have to disagree, EJ has the "It" factor. He has the "the leader" quality. If anything more than most QBs in the NFL.

 

He just doesn't perform well in game situations.

 

If you put Ryan Fitzptricks brain in EJ manuel's body you would have one of the greatest QBs of all time.

EJ has a history of not letting it rip.

 

I hope that was a product of horrible coaching and he can learn to throw open receivers but EJs problems are definitely not his charisma and leadership qualities. Not at all IMO

[VABills]

Not an out pattern, but these ones looks good

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000294203/EJ-Manuel-throws-3rd-interception

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000382354/Manuel-intercepted-by-Goldson

 

Sort of an out pattern

 

 

Edited August 27, 2015 by VABills