BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Corrected for accuracy. Pot meet Kettle. My crusade is not me saying EJM will succeed rather he has the tools to be good if developed properly. Which is far better than the crusade saying he never will be any good. The argument against EJ good sir if the same argument the "realists" are not using against TT. ie lack of experience. As is the example that EJM is 3rd string after 3 seasons where as TT was 2nd after 4 seasons in Baltimore. Q. - How many QBs does Balto carry? A. - Two. 5 Flacco, Joe QB 6-6 245 30 8 Delaware 8 Schaub, Matt QB 6-6 245 34 12 Virginia Kind of impossible to be #3 when you only carry 2. Edited September 10, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 This preseason, EJ Manuel had the 5th best QB rating in the league. He had the 4th best average yards per pass. Statistically, every 4th pass completion was for over 20 yards. Dude had 4 impressive touchdown passes. He threw a go ahead pass in the Panther game only to have the defense blow it in the end, he threw a game winning touchdown pass and 2 point conversion in the Browns game and he went off in the Steelers game. Yet you have the nerve to complain about him blowing his chances!? Really?…LOL EJ had the best preseason of his career and it shows his development, but if you look across the league, Brett Hundley, Matt McGloin and Joe Webb also had decent preseason numbers going against third stringers. A lot of these stats need to be looked through their proper context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 LOL. "I have the nerve"..LMAO Sorry that it's hard to get excited about our 1st Round QB who in year 3 is listed 3rd string on our QB depth chart behind QB's like TT and Cassel. LOL. The nerve of me, indeed. A first round qb who was drafted as a project, with an incompetent head coach, a first year coordinator, and no qb coach his rookie year. This is the first year EJ has had truly good NFL coaching and he has demonstrably improved. He has also been a consummate teammate, never whining or sulking and consistently working to improve. He is hardly a bust. The fact that you cannot properly contextualize the situation and show contempt towards an honorable person in what is actually a hopeful situation reveals the quality of your mind and character. The laughter of fools is the praise of the wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) A first round qb who was drafted as a project, with an incompetent head coach, a first year coordinator, and no qb coach his rookie year. This is the first year EJ has had truly good NFL coaching and he has demonstrably improved. He has also been a consummate teammate, never whining or sulking and consistently working to improve. He is hardly a bust. The fact that you cannot properly contextualize the situation and show contempt towards an honorable person in what is actually a hopeful situation reveals the quality of your mind and character. The laughter of fools is the praise of the wise. wow. I didn't say anything about him as a teammate? My initial post I even said how he appears to be a good person. What does one thing have to do with the other? All you just provided in your post is nothing but fluff and excuses. Rooting for a player to succeed and accepting the reality of the situation are two different things. 1st round QB + Year 3 + relegated to third string behind a no-name QB and a journeyman QB = bust in my eyes. Edited September 10, 2015 by bobobonators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) wow. I didn't say anything about him as a teammate? My initial post I even said how he appears to be a good person. What does one thing have to do with the other? All you just provided in your post is nothing but fluff and excuses. Rooting for a player to succeed and accepting the reality of the situation are two different things. 1st round QB + Year 3 + relegated to third string behind a no-name QB and a journeyman QB = bust in my eyes. Okay, I think your eyes are wrong. One man's reasons are another's excuses and vice versa. I'm sure you're a fine fellow, though unwise in this case. Mainly I just felt like expressing some rhetorical spleen. Edited September 10, 2015 by Dr. Who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Okay, I think your eyes are wrong. One man's reasons are another's excuses and vice versa. I'm sure you're a fine fellow, though unwise in this case. Mainly I just felt like expressing some rhetorical spleen. Fair enough. Any Bills fan wants EJ to succeed. His success = Bills success. Who doesn't want that? Reality is it's probably not happening anytime soon, if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 If Cassel signs with the Texans or whatever team, like he had a good chance to do, I doubt anyone would be claiming WGR nailed it... The truth is the Bills were willing to cut Cassel and take their chances instead of cutting EJ...It was a smart move for a number of reasons...Cap and future...But when Cassel wants to come back for less it's an easy decision...The one thing Roman mentioned about EJ during camp, while praising his overall make-up, was the fact that he had to continue to get a better grasp of the offense...I think that's where the coaches remain with EJ...If they have to choose between EJ or Cassel, and one of them has to be gone, they are going to keep EJ...But if Cassel's presence allows EJ a few more weeks to continue to learn and improve...It's a win/win... No one at WGR...I mean NO ONE predicted Cassel would get cut...Sal reported a few days before it happened that there was internal talks...And some other reports from outside the station got the conversation started in the days leading up to it...But had it not been for these outside reports of the possibility most of the local media would have been completely blindsided by Cassel's release...Heck...even if they knew no one would have figured he would be back...There was no way the Bills could predict how it all fell into place...I think it was funny how Howard and Jeremy were sort of patting themselves on the back about the way it all played out...Though I will say Howard was very complimentary of EJ and his improvement... So...Anyway...GO BILLS!!! GO TT!!! As discussed in the Cassel thread, WGR didn't predict the roster machinations, but they were correct in their assessment that coaches ranked Cassel ahead of EJ. In the end, it all worked out for the Bills, but had Cassel signed with Houston, Bills would have added another vet QB next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The season ain't over yet folks. Let's enjoy it. Every damn game of it. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) EJ had the best preseason of his career and it shows his development, but if you look across the league, Brett Hundley, Matt McGloin and Joe Webb also had decent preseason numbers going against third stringers. A lot of these stats need to be looked through their proper context. EJ Manuel had Doug Marrone as his head coach his first two years. He's a former first round pick who has shown a dramatic improvement under Greg Roman. Other than Hundley, who clearly does have the pedigree to eventually become a franchise QB, the other two complete nobody QBs just do not have the same starting pedigree to even be in this discussion. Having 4 TD passes with 60 attempts against 3rd string players is not a big deal. EJ did this in 30 attempts, with double the average yards per completion, two game late TD passes to go ahead in the Panther game and win the Browns game...AND he went off on the Steelers first string defense. BTW, this was all done under tremendous pressure of being a former first round pick who was fighting to save his former 1st round QB career. None of those three guys had anywhere near that kind of pressure. That is the proper context it needs to be looked through. It's shameful how some Bills fans remain such ardent EJ haters that they can't even give him his do when he does great. Let me say that by doing this you are all putting a lot of pressure on Tyrod Taylor to perform amazingly well on Sunday given how silly EJ's preseason stats were when put into the haters' "proper context" machine. Edited September 10, 2015 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 All I will say is EJ looked like crap in preseason year 1 and 2. He looked 1000% better in preseason year 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 EJ Manuel had Doug Marrone as his head coach his first two years. He's a former first round pick who has shown a dramatic improvement under Greg Roman. Other than Hundley, who clearly does have the pedigree to eventually become a franchise QB, the other two complete nobody QBs just do not have the same starting pedigree to even be in this discussion. Having 4 TD passes with 60 attempts against 3rd string players is not a big deal. EJ did this in 30 attempts, with double the average yards per completion, two game late TD passes to go ahead in the Panther game and win the Browns game...AND he went off on the Steelers first string defense. BTW, this was all done under tremendous pressure of being a former first round pick who was fighting to save his former 1st round QB career. None of those three guys had anywhere near that kind of pressure. That is the proper context it needs to be looked through. It's shameful how some Bills fans remain such ardent EJ haters that they can't even give him his do when he does great. Let me say that by doing this you are all putting a lot of pressure on Tyrod Taylor to perform amazingly well on Sunday given how silly EJ's preseason stats were when put into the haters' "proper context" machine. Joe Webb looked like a superstar against our vaunted defense last year, and many people, including me were advocating making a run at him if he was available. Yet, there he is, third string behind a Derek Anderson. That's why it's hard to impart a lot of analysis from preseason games because you have very little idea in how that play translates to regular action. All we know is that despite a pretty good preseason outing, the coaching staff wasted no time in naming Cassel #2, and if you listen to the offensive coaches, they clearly rank Cassel ahead of EJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Joe Webb looked like a superstar against our vaunted defense last year, and many people, including me were advocating making a run at him if he was available. Yet, there he is, third string behind a Derek Anderson. That's why it's hard to impart a lot of analysis from preseason games because you have very little idea in how that play translates to regular action. All we know is that despite a pretty good preseason outing, the coaching staff wasted no time in naming Cassel #2, and if you listen to the offensive coaches, they clearly rank Cassel ahead of EJ. That's not how Roman sounded yesterday. He talked up EJ. And weren't you the guy saying that preseason does matter a lot when the Bills QBs were playing poorly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Joe Webb looked like a superstar against our vaunted defense last year, and many people, including me were advocating making a run at him if he was available. Yet, there he is, third string behind a Derek Anderson. That's why it's hard to impart a lot of analysis from preseason games because you have very little idea in how that play translates to regular action. All we know is that despite a pretty good preseason outing, the coaching staff wasted no time in naming Cassel #2, and if you listen to the offensive coaches, they clearly rank Cassel ahead of EJ. 1.) I've always liked Joe Webb, although that playoff game where he utterly bleeped the bed knocked him down quite a bit in my eyes. I was definitely one of the guys who wanted to take a chance on him. Low cost, high upside - kind of like Tyrod! 2.) Regarding EJ... All I will say is EJ looked like crap in preseason year 1 and 2. He looked 1000% better in preseason year 3. PTR sums it up well. I've been trying to be hopeful about EJ since he was drafted, and that was a LOT tougher job last preseason than this one. He looked really bad. This year, he looked really good, with only a couple of bad plays. I'm not promising he'd still look that good in the regular season (obviously his numbers would be worse no matter what), but I think it's a real sign that he's gotten significantly better since last year. And that's good! It also stands to reason that if he's gotten better since last year, he might keep getting better this year, and maybe that improvement will be faster with playing time. If Tyrod wasn't around, I would definitely be pulling for EJ to start over Cassel. Cassel is already at his ceiling, and that ceiling isn't very high. Tyrod & EJ are both well below their ceilings, and both ceilings are much higher than Cassel's. Will either one ever get there? I don't know, but I'm glad we're at least rolling with a guy who *could* wind up a top 10 QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Joe Webb looked like a superstar against our vaunted defense last year, and many people, including me were advocating making a run at him if he was available. Yet, there he is, third string behind a Derek Anderson. That's why it's hard to impart a lot of analysis from preseason games because you have very little idea in how that play translates to regular action. All we know is that despite a pretty good preseason outing, the coaching staff wasted no time in naming Cassel #2, and if you listen to the offensive coaches, they clearly rank Cassel ahead of EJ. Why do you continue to bring up Joe Webb? I gave you the reason why it's an idiotic comparison, yet you still continue to do it. I'm done wasting my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 All I will say is EJ looked like crap in preseason year 1 and 2. He looked 1000% better in preseason year 3. Yea but it's Ej and stuff so therefore irrelevant. Joe Webb looked like a superstar against our vaunted defense last year, and many people, including me were advocating making a run at him if he was available. Yet, there he is, third string behind a Derek Anderson. That's why it's hard to impart a lot of analysis from preseason games because you have very little idea in how that play translates to regular action. All we know is that despite a pretty good preseason outing, the coaching staff wasted no time in naming Cassel #2, and if you listen to the offensive coaches, they clearly rank Cassel ahead of EJ. Lolz at I wanted Joe Webb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I like EJ. Screw WGR. On the other hand, maybe it's spurred him to work even harder. He has really improved. I think he should be #2 QB. But, no-one listens to me. Alas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 That's not how Roman sounded yesterday. He talked up EJ. And weren't you the guy saying that preseason does matter a lot when the Bills QBs were playing poorly? He talked him up AFTER they announced his demotion. I imagine there's a lot of psychology involved in his commentary, contrasted to David Lee's frank comments from Monday's interviews. And yes, I have consistently said that preseason performance is a good barometer for the regular season, and that has been proven over the last decade. I have also said that EJ has improved a lot by the looks of his outings in the games. But that is not the issue here. The question is where EJ stands relative to the other QBs in the coaches' eyes, and it's clear that they aren't comfortable with him as #2 yet. Why do you continue to bring up Joe Webb? I gave you the reason why it's an idiotic comparison, yet you still continue to do it. I'm done wasting my time. Because it's a very good comp - Joe Webb lights up the preseason, but remains buried as the #3 QB on the Panthers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 He talked him up AFTER they announced his demotion. I imagine there's a lot of psychology involved in his commentary, contrasted to David Lee's frank comments from Monday's interviews. And yes, I have consistently said that preseason performance is a good barometer for the regular season, and that has been proven over the last decade. I have also said that EJ has improved a lot by the looks of his outings in the games. But that is not the issue here. The question is where EJ stands relative to the other QBs in the coaches' eyes, and it's clear that they aren't comfortable with him as #2 yet. IMO it's very clear they are, because they didn't even tell Cassel he was being released, had no idea what his mindset was, and came very close to not re-signing him. If they didn't have faith in EJ they would have eaten that 2m for sure. They just felt better having the vet around because he is so good with the young guys and he is insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Because it's a very good comp - Joe Webb lights up the preseason, but remains buried as the #3 QB on the Panthers. No it's not...LOL Joe Webb had 3 TDs in 60 passing attempts while EJ Manuel had 4 TDs in 30 passing attempts. EJ's yards per completion was almost double. You're embarrassing yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 IMO it's very clear they are, because they didn't even tell Cassel he was being released, had no idea what his mindset was, and came very close to not re-signing him. If they didn't have faith in EJ they would have eaten that 2m for sure. They just felt better having the vet around because he is so good with the young guys and he is insurance. Yet they wasted no time in naming him the #2 as soon as he was brought in. To me the only clear part was that once Tyrod won the starting job, Whaley didn't want to pay Cassel $4.5 million to carry the clipboard, especially with Dareus' negotiations entering the final stage. I think that EJ's performance in the games gave them enough comfort to name him #2 for the first week, But I'm under no illusion that they were going to spend the season with only TT & EJ on the roster with Alex Tanney on the PS. The deal they gave Cassel indicates how much they still like him, because it certainly wasn't at the vet minimum like some have reported. But if he flew to Houston, Bills would have brought in another vet. No it's not...LOL Joe Webb had 3 TDs in 60 passing attempts while EJ Manuel had 4 TDs in 30 passing attempts. EJ's yards per completion was almost double. You're embarrassing yourself. And Matt Simms had a killer quarter against Pittsburg too. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts