JESSEFEFFER Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) In my opnion, Matt Cassel as the #2 is the QB caddy. He works the game plan, practices and videotape sessions right beside Tyrod and is in his ear the most when Tyrod is not on the headset talking to the coaches. If anything happens to Tyrod, Matt is the choice to go in. Who starts the next game, if needed, is a mystery but I think it might be EJ. Rex's comment suggested that there is something atypical about the #2 / #3 QB roles. I have refrained from happy dances of any sort because we are still just guessing about how the coaching staff feels about any of these guys. They might like Tyrod as #1 but we have no clue as to the depth of that support. They may like Cassel as #2 but they certainly weren't prepping him to start with 4 series of live action and they certainly exposed themselves to losing him. In their minds, they obviously were ok with EJ at #2 but we have no idea what they want to see from him that he has yet to show or whether they really believe he can develop into a QB they could win with. Edited September 10, 2015 by JESSEFEFFER
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) I think, but not sure not sure cause he never really explained it, the OC point was that the guys on GR were dolts and biased against EJ cause clearly EJ was a superior choice, Forgot watching practice and seeing who was getting snaps and who was better in practice...all OC saw was two series in a couple games and thought these guys were idiots for saying EJ was 3rd in the race. EJ was 3rd in the race in the mind of the coaches...that what was being reported, they were right. forget talent and who SHOULD start and be #2...this was about who WOULD start and be #2...GR guys nailed it. Who knows what Rex's master plan is /was. Hindsight being 20/20 - Clearly from the start EJ had the majority of his time with the 2's and 3's. That is all we can agree on. Why? We may never know other than reading into the gossip imo. By default people came to say that he was the worst of the 3 & he sucks. speaking of imo Where is Leroi? Edited September 10, 2015 by BillsFan-4-Ever
The Wiz Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 I think, but not sure not sure cause he never really explained it, the OC point was that the guys on GR were dolts and biased against EJ cause clearly EJ was a superior choice, Forgot watching practice and seeing who was getting snaps and who was better in practice...all OC saw was two series in a couple games and thought these guys were idiots for saying EJ was 3rd in the race. EJ was 3rd in the race in the mind of the coaches...that what was being reported, they were right. forget talent and who SHOULD start and be #2...this was about who WOULD start and be #2...GR guys nailed it. Not to split hairs but most of them were in Cassels corner.
tombstone56 Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 KEEP IN MIND GR's resident expert "Jerry Sullivan" had just been on ESPN saying CASSEL would be the starter,, ,making them (GR) look as foolish as SULLIVAN . so of course they need to justify their position . EVEN IF ITS dumb!
26CornerBlitz Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 KEEP IN MIND GR's resident expert "Jerry Sullivan" had just been on ESPN saying CASSEL would be the starter,, ,making them (GR) look as foolish as SULLIVAN . so of course they need to justify their position . EVEN IF ITS dumb! Sullivan hasn't been on WGR is a couple of years.
bobobonators Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Meh..who cares; he's the 3rd string QB. If they want to rip on the backup safety all day long too, let them.
Big Gun Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Who knows what Rex's master plan is /was. Hindsight being 20/20 - Clearly from the start EJ had the majority of his time with the 2's and 3's. That is all we can agree on. Why? We may never know other than reading into the gossip imo. By default people came to say that he was the worst of the 3 & he sucks. speaking of imo Where is Leroi? Maybe these coaches actually know a whole ton more than you, ya think! They use video and break down every ota and camp session and have a general idea of who/what they want from only looking at a small % of practices. These guys are good or they wouldn't be NFL coaches. Sorry you are all butthurt that it doesn't fit your narrative. Ignorance is bliss isn't it, keep on trolling!
1billsfan Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 I think, but not sure not sure cause he never really explained it, the OC point was that the guys on GR were dolts and biased against EJ cause clearly EJ was a superior choice, Forgot watching practice and seeing who was getting snaps and who was better in practice...all OC saw was two series in a couple games and thought these guys were idiots for saying EJ was 3rd in the race. EJ was 3rd in the race in the mind of the coaches...that what was being reported, they were right. forget talent and who SHOULD start and be #2...this was about who WOULD start and be #2...GR guys nailed it. The only reason they "nailed it" is because Cassel came back with his tail between his legs when no one else in the NFL wanted him. The Bills hold EJ in much higher regard than they do Cassel. The depth chart beyond Taylor is penciled in at this point. Tyrod Taylor hasn't thrown one NFL TD pass and a few days before his first start ever you're busting on the EJ supporters? I get that you're extremely confident in Taylor, but EJ had 4 TD passes in preseason and a much higher QB rating. If I were you I'd just let it go, because what you're doing will only shorten Taylor's honeymoon. Maybe you don't care about Taylor having calm waters for his first few career starts.
YattaOkasan Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 I think, but not sure not sure cause he never really explained it, the OC point was that the guys on GR were dolts and biased against EJ cause clearly EJ was a superior choice, Forgot watching practice and seeing who was getting snaps and who was better in practice...all OC saw was two series in a couple games and thought these guys were idiots for saying EJ was 3rd in the race. EJ was 3rd in the race in the mind of the coaches...that what was being reported, they were right. forget talent and who SHOULD start and be #2...this was about who WOULD start and be #2...GR guys nailed it. It seemed to me that OC was mostly pointing out the logical fallacies of WGR's defense. I think his presentation of the PS games was as evidence to refute WGR's position thus exposing their logical fallacies because they didn't defend with evidence but with logical fallacies (I could list if you want). I agree with others that the #2/#3 roles seem to be misleading. I would expect Cassel to step in if TT is injured during the game, but then EJ to start the next game.
bobobonators Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Maybe these coaches actually know a whole ton more than you, ya think! They use video and break down every ota and camp session and have a general idea of who/what they want from only looking at a small % of practices. These guys are good or they wouldn't be NFL coaches. Sorry you are all butthurt that it doesn't fit your narrative. Ignorance is bliss isn't it, keep on trolling! Pretty much. How many chances does a QB need before it's proven he's a bust? This was his 3rd training camp and he couldn't beat out Cassel or TT...there's no conspiracy. Awesome guy from everything I've read. Still a bust though.
plenzmd1 Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Ooooooooh! And you break out into your happy dance. Doing it naked as a matter of fact!!!! i love a good healthy debate...think that is why we come here, to talk Bills football and have different ideas. I hate when guys imply/insist they are the smartest guy in the room, and the rest of the world are dolts. Thats why OC bugs me so much. He was all over coming here and saying how smart he was when EJ got the start... Not to split hairs but most of them were in Cassels corner.Agreed, I think they were saying they thought Cassell would be the choice, but they to a man thought TT should be the choice. Again, that's is why I was trying to get OC to explain his position ...cause GR and the tea leaves thing was a prediction who they thought WOULD start, not who they wanted to start. The only reason they "nailed it" is because Cassel came back with his tail between his legs when no one else in the NFL wanted him. The Bills hold EJ in much higher regard than they do Cassel. The depth chart beyond Taylor is penciled in at this point. Tyrod Taylor hasn't thrown one NFL TD pass and a few days before his first start ever you're busting on the EJ supporters? I get that you're extremely confident in Taylor, but EJ had 4 TD passes in preseason and a much higher QB rating. If I were you I'd just let it go, because what you're doing will only shorten Taylor's honeymoon. Maybe you don't care about Taylor having calm waters for his first few career starts. If it comes across I am busting on anyone besides OC I am not explaining myself well..sorry for that. I want EJ to start, I am a huge EJ guy. Just the guys on GR were right saying EJ really did not stand much of a chance to start based on everything they saw and heard.... while we based everything solely on the games. Edited September 10, 2015 by plenzmd1
Mr. WEO Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 I'm trying to curb my incessant EJ QB debating crusade but since this was bumped back up I'll add my 2 cents again. Talent wise TT and EJ are very close. THE reason MC is #2 is because he has 10 years of knowledge to pass on to the younger QB's. His experience, not his talent as the better QB is why MC is @ 2. That is my opinion. I am sorry if that upsets some people. Not to be rude but - Get over it. Corrected for accuracy.
The Wiz Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Doing it naked as a matter of fact!!!! i love a good healthy debate...think that is why we come here, to talk Bills football and have different ideas. I hate when guys imply/insist they are the smartest guy in the room, and the rest of the world are dolts. Thats why OC bugs me so much. He was all over coming here and saying how smart he was when EJ got the start... Agreed, I think they were saying they thought Cassell would be the choice, but they to a man thought TT should be the choice. Again, that's is why I was trying to get OC to explain his position ...cause GR and the tea leaves thing was a prediction who they thought WOULD start, not who they wanted to start. If it comes across I am busting on anyone besides OC I am not explaining myself well..sorry for that. I want EJ to start, I am a huge EJ guy. Just the guys on GR were right saying EJ really did not stand much of a chance to start based on everything they saw and heard.... while we based everything solely on the games. I don't think anyone is arguing where he stood in the QB battle. I think part of OC's reason for starting the topic was along the same lines of what I heard. People were calling in to wgr and schoop and bulldog were basically doing nothing but trashing EJ (I think it was only the 2nd week of TC) saying he was terrible over and over again and he will be lucky to be on an nfl roster when his contract is up. This was in a span of about 15 minutes that they were saying this so I can imagine that the tone of the show didn't change much after that point. Edited September 10, 2015 by The Wiz
bobobonators Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 I'm trying to curb my QB debating but since this was bumped back up I'll add my 2 cents again. Talent wise TT and EJ are very close. THE reason MC is #2 is because he has 10 years of knowledge to pass on to the younger QB's. His experience, not his talent as the better QB is why MC is @ 2. That is my opinion. I am sorry if that upsets some people. Not to be rude but - Get over it. I'll attempt to curb mine as well but I completely disagree. This is EJ's third season and he already sat behind Orton last year. This is TT's 5th season and he already sat behind Flacco. Eventually you either step up and take the bull by the horns or you simply don't. MC being on this team has little to do about knowledge and much to do about the coaching staff's concerns with TT and EJ. MC being a better professional QB than EJ is why he's on this team right now.
BackInDaDay Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 5. My personal favorite "We are reading the TEA leaves from the coaches/We are merely reacting to what the coaches are saying" Q1: Who asks the coaches the questions? A1: The media. C1: What the "coaches are saying" is driven mostly by the media's questions and how they are framed. QED. The notion that the media is merely reacting in this situation, is patently retarded. Especially when we consider the fact that "reading the TEA leaves" is the basis for most of this analysis. WGR: You are telling us that most of your work is based solely on interpretation....EVERYWHERE! Interpretation of what you see on the field, interpretation of what the coaches are saying, interpretation of how EJ answers the question "How do you expect things to go at your next team?" (No bias in that question at all) NOTHING here is empirical. ALL is based on interpretation...and WGR people are trying to tell us that there's 0 chance for bias? very solid post, OC.. .. and it's this last point that has driven me crazy all pre-season, and will probably extend all year. The Buffalo sports media's inability to ask direct, relevant questions in order to get direct, relevant answers. unfortunately, a lack of knowledge about what's trying to be accomplished on the field, forces these folks to ask loaded questions that they hope will generate interest - rather than getting at the actual nuts and bolts of the team
GunnerBill Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 (edited) Just curious...now that the QB depth chart is exactly how the "tea leaves" predicted...would you now say these guys were doing their job and accurate in their predictions? The "tea leaves" predicted Cassel #1 actually. That was the whole point of the wider criticism (I know this post moans specifically about the view on EJ). Coller and Schopp were both saying they wanted TT #1 but that the "tea leaves" were suggesting Cassel. Indeed on the now infamous post game show Coller was cutting off not only anyone who was arguing that EJ was still in the battle but also anyone who was saying that the idea of Cassel as starter was illogical and that it appeared the staff were leaning towards TT. He just kept repeating ad infinitum that those people saying the battle was still on or that either of the young guys was going to start was deluding themselves and needed to realise the way the coaches think and that the "tea leaves" showed the truth because Cassel played fewer snaps just like Big Ben. Edited September 10, 2015 by GunnerBill
1billsfan Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 Pretty much. How many chances does a QB need before it's proven he's a bust? This was his 3rd training camp and he couldn't beat out Cassel or TT...there's no conspiracy. Awesome guy from everything I've read. Still a bust though. This preseason, EJ Manuel had the 5th best QB rating in the league. He had the 4th best average yards per pass. Statistically, every 4th pass completion was for over 20 yards. Dude had 4 impressive touchdown passes. He threw a go ahead pass in the Panther game only to have the defense blow it in the end, he threw a game winning touchdown pass and 2 point conversion in the Browns game and he went off in the Steelers game. Yet you have the nerve to complain about him blowing his chances!? Really?…LOL
GunnerBill Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 This preseason, EJ Manuel had the 5th best QB rating in the league. He had the 4th best average yards per pass. Statistically, every 4th pass completion was for over 20 yards. Dude had 4 impressive touchdown passes. He threw a go ahead pass in the Panther game only to have the defense blow it in the end, he threw a game winning touchdown pass and 2 point conversion in the Browns game and he went off in the Steelers game. Yet you have the nerve to complain about him blowing his chances!? Really?…LOL He did get too far behind in practice though that is the thing. If you look at the last 2 and a half weeks of camp so the period from game 1 to game 3 in total it is possible to make an argument for EJ being the best QB in that period. But the first 3 weeks of camp he got himself so far behind - that was his problem. He was the slowest to pick up the offense by most accounts and that is scary for a coordinator. EJ was at his best when his back was against the wall and all looked lost, which is similar to when he performs the best in real live games as well.
KOKBILLS Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 The only reason they "nailed it" is because Cassel came back with his tail between his legs when no one else in the NFL wanted him. The Bills hold EJ in much higher regard than they do Cassel. The depth chart beyond Taylor is penciled in at this point. If Cassel signs with the Texans or whatever team, like he had a good chance to do, I doubt anyone would be claiming WGR nailed it... The truth is the Bills were willing to cut Cassel and take their chances instead of cutting EJ...It was a smart move for a number of reasons...Cap and future...But when Cassel wants to come back for less it's an easy decision...The one thing Roman mentioned about EJ during camp, while praising his overall make-up, was the fact that he had to continue to get a better grasp of the offense...I think that's where the coaches remain with EJ...If they have to choose between EJ or Cassel, and one of them has to be gone, they are going to keep EJ...But if Cassel's presence allows EJ a few more weeks to continue to learn and improve...It's a win/win... No one at WGR...I mean NO ONE predicted Cassel would get cut...Sal reported a few days before it happened that there was internal talks...And some other reports from outside the station got the conversation started in the days leading up to it...But had it not been for these outside reports of the possibility most of the local media would have been completely blindsided by Cassel's release...Heck...even if they knew no one would have figured he would be back...There was no way the Bills could predict how it all fell into place...I think it was funny how Howard and Jeremy were sort of patting themselves on the back about the way it all played out...Though I will say Howard was very complimentary of EJ and his improvement... So...Anyway...GO BILLS!!! GO TT!!!
bobobonators Posted September 10, 2015 Posted September 10, 2015 This preseason, EJ Manuel had the 5th best QB rating in the league. He had the 4th best average yards per pass. Statistically, every 4th pass completion was for over 20 yards. Dude had 4 impressive touchdown passes. He threw a go ahead pass in the Panther game only to have the defense blow it in the end, he threw a game winning touchdown pass and 2 point conversion in the Browns game and he went off in the Steelers game. Yet you have the nerve to complain about him blowing his chances!? Really?…LOL LOL. "I have the nerve"..LMAO Sorry that it's hard to get excited about our 1st Round QB who in year 3 is listed 3rd string on our QB depth chart behind QB's like TT and Cassel. LOL. The nerve of me, indeed.
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