The Dean Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's not entirely Roman's decision. Of course. As thebandit clearly explained. It will be discussed by the entire group. I'm sure there will be agreement, and possibly some disagreements. Everyone will/should get to share their thoughts and concerns. I'd assume the offensive coaches, in particular, have a lot to add to the discussion--so I don't really think there will be too much of an issue when the final decision gets made. But I think even if Rex would slightly prefer QB X and Roman really wants QB Y, you go with QB Y. Think about it. They brought Roman in to help fix the offense, which has been the real problem for this team the past few years. Roman has a history of grooming QBs and designing effective offenses. Rex has never been able to fix an offense or develop a QB in his years as HC. Here's a crappy analogy: A general contractor has built a few houses and every one of them has horrible electric issues. This contractor has never had any electrical experience and some say he doesn't know a volt from a watt. So he hires a master electrician to build the next house. There is some discussion on what materials to use, and how to go about wiring the house. The electrician's plan is within budget, but the general contractor says, "No, use this stuff instead, and do it my way". Now he's the boss, and he can make the decision. But he'd be one stupid general contractor, and I wouldn't want him building my house. Great managers delegate and trust their people (especially if they got to pick the person), until they prove themselves inadequate for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 This is easy. There are two viable options: 1) call Doug marrone and ask him. Then do the opposite. 2) have all 3 QBs vote. But no one can vote for himself. thats sneaky In other words, call Doug Marrone. Damn!! I read at work on my breaks, and ONLY my breaks. But i do follow these things along with you folks. Rex should make the call. and he will own up to it. His relationship with Greg is none of our business. Rex makes the call. Period. There is a damned fine reason why Rex and Whaley and Pegula hired Roman. Of course. As thebandit clearly explained. It will be discussed by the entire group. I'm sure there will be agreement, and possibly some disagreements. Everyone will/should get to share their thoughts and concerns. I'd assume the offensive coaches, in particular, have a lot to add to the discussion--so I don't really think there will be too much of an issue when the final decision gets made. But I think even if Rex would slightly prefer QB X and Roman really wants QB Y, you go with QB Y. Think about it. They brought Roman in to help fix the offense, which has been the real problem for this team the past few years. Roman has a history of grooming QBs and designing effective offenses. Rex has never been able to fix an offense or develop a QB in his years as HC. Here's a crappy analogy: A general contractor has built a few houses and every one of them has horrible electric issues. This contractor has never had any electrical experience and some say he doesn't know a volt from a watt. So he hires a master electrician to build the next house. There is some discussion on what materials to use, and how to go about wiring the house. The electrician's plan is within budget, but the general contractor says, "No, use this stuff instead, and do it my way". Now he's the boss, and he can make the decision. But he'd be one stupid general contractor, and I wouldn't want him building my house. Great managers delegate and trust their people (especially if they got to pick the person), until they prove themselves inadequate for the job. This, my friend goes back to a principal that is taught by some successful major business owners. Surround your self with folks that are smarter than you. and learn why you can trust them. Then do just that. at some point you just have to. Its a huge risk and probably nerve wracking. but it can really pay off. May i suggest this is the method likely employed by the Pegulas? They can read character and they can read previous success. Can they empower with knowledgeable trust . I might guess so. The Bills organization looks more coherent than anytime previous that i am aware of. Go Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 thats sneaky Damn!! I read at work on my breaks, and ONLY my breaks. But i do follow these things along with you folks. Rex should make the call. and he will own up to it. His relationship with Greg is none of our business. Rex makes the call. Period. There is a damned fine reason why Rex and Whaley and Pegula hired Roman. This, my friend goes back to a principal that is taught by some successful major business owners. Surround your self with folks that are smarter than you. and learn why you can trust them. Then do just that. at some point you just have to. Its a huge risk and probably nerve wracking. but it can really pay off. May i suggest this is the method likely employed by the Pegulas? They can read character and they can read previous success. Can they empower with knowledgeable trust . I might guess so. The Bills organization looks more coherent than anytime previous that i am aware of. Go Bills Depends on whether you're trying to create short-term success, or long-term success. It's even debatable whether you'll enjoy short-term success with the guy with more injury-marred seasons than good ones. To me, going with Cassel is like going with Orton. It was short-term success and then back to ground zero again. Cassel will be no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent 91 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 re #1 The answer to that would be EJ. Hahaha well played Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Depends on whether you're trying to create short-term success, or long-term success. It's even debatable whether you'll enjoy short-term success with the guy with more injury-marred seasons than good ones. To me, going with Cassel is like going with Orton. It was short-term success and then back to ground zero again. Cassel will be no different. I'll take any success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I'll take any success. So then you were satisfied with last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 So then you were satisfied with last season? Best season in a decade. Let's build on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Depends on whether you're trying to create short-term success, or long-term success. It's even debatable whether you'll enjoy short-term success with the guy with more injury-marred seasons than good ones. To me, going with Cassel is like going with Orton. It was short-term success and then back to ground zero again. Cassel will be no different. It's becoming clear this isn't about who should make the QB decision for the Bills. For you it's just "don't start Cassel". I think there are about 100 other threads for that. What if it is Rex who wants Cassel and Roman who wants to start TT? I thought this was about who, in the organization, should be empowered and trusted to make that call. I mean, hell, if Rex and Roman want to start Cassel, but Whaley or Pegula disagree, maybe they should make the call--right? I'm not particularly crazy about starting Cassel, either. I think he's an acceptable #2 and I'm glad the Bills have a guy like that (wish he was a bit better, though) on the team. But there are scenarios where perhaps starting Cassel early in the season make sense for the long-term. Maybe Roman likes TT but doesn't think he is quite ready, or can handle a whole playbook, just yet. Maybe he likes EJ and just needs to get more comfortable with him. Whatever. For the long-term health of this team, the coaching staff is more important than one player decision---even the QB. We have a proven OC in Roman now. I think it's crazy, at this point, to not give him the players he thinks he needs to best run the offense---even if I disagree with those decisions. Edited August 25, 2015 by The Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Best season in a decade. Let's build on it. They're trying but they had to go back to zero at the QB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 They're trying but they had to go back to zero at the QB position. We should get better QB's than ones who are at the tail end of their careers. Maybe next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 We should get better QB's than ones who are at the tail end of their careers. Maybe next year. We have two right near the start of their careers. Even better, they have had some time to lean on the bench. While I'm not all-in on either EJ or TT, I'm fairly bullish on the Bills QB situation right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 We have two right near the start of their careers. Even better, they have had some time to lean on the bench. While I'm not all-in on either EJ or TT, I'm fairly bullish on the Bills QB situation right now. Yep, hopefully either are better than whatever vet we have, Cassel or otherwise next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's becoming clear this isn't about who should make the QB decision for the Bills. For you it's just "don't start Cassel". I think there are about 100 other threads for that. What if it is Rex who wants Cassel and Roman who wants to start TT? I thought this was about who, in the organization, should be empowered and trusted to make that call. I mean, hell, if Rex and Roman want to start Cassel, but Whaley or Pegula disagree, maybe they should make the call--right? I'm not particularly crazy about starting Cassel, either. I think he's an acceptable #2 and I'm glad the Bills have a guy like that (wish he was a bit better, though) on the team. But there are scenarios where perhaps starting Cassel early in the season make sense for the long-term. Maybe Roman likes TT but doesn't think he is quite ready, or can handle a whole playbook, just yet. Maybe he likes EJ and just needs to get more comfortable with him. Whatever. For the long-term health of this team, the coaching staff is more important than one player decision---even the QB. We have a proven OC in Roman now. I think it's crazy, at this point, to not give him the players he thinks he needs to best run the offense---even if I disagree with those decisions. Yes, I'm against Cassel starting and am going off of reports that Ryan like TT while Roman likes him. Cassel has shown that he's a journeyman at best and he'll always be one and will be on another team next year. TT has had time to learn from an excellent coaching staff and behind a SB-winning QB, and it's Ryan's first year, so let TT start and take his lumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 This is easy. There are two viable options: 1) call Doug marrone and ask him. Then do the opposite. 2) have all 3 QBs vote. But no one can vote for himself. #2 is evil. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Because he is the star of the show and the three QBs are supporting players right now. I think there is an important dynamic there that there shouldn't be a major disconnect on if they plan on having a successful offense. It's more of a positive energy vs negative energy dynamic that I'm referring to. No doubt that Sammy wants to have the same kind of success that ODB had last year and if he's floundering with a QB who's thrown him only 2 TDs in five games and he's the QB he never wanted in the first place...it's probably not going to be a good thing. Who knows, maybe Sammy has no preference and he's just glad it's not his decision. That could be the case also. OK, fair enough, you've explained your thinking. First, Sammy is NOT the star of the show...he is a tremendously talented 2nd year player who was hampered by injury and perhaps by offensive scheme/QB last year. Do you think McCoy, Clay, Harvin, and Woods would all concur Sammy is "the star of the show"? I don't. They are all extremely talented players poised to potentially be major contributors to A WINNING TEAM. If the team is losing with all the talent we have, will anyone care if Sammy is having an ODB year or McCoy is having a PB season. If the team is winning, it's to be hoped that none of the stars will care too much if their numbers are diluted by teammate playmakers. To think otherwise is a loser's mentality, because on a good team with multiple playmakers, one guys numbers WILL get diluted. But what would be the impact on the team if the coach invites one of the playmakers to be "more equal than others" and vote on the QB? Oh, invite them all to vote - now what is this, a professional football offense coached by an OC who knows what he's doing, or a taping of Survivor - NFL? Ask players to vote on coaching decisions and you might as well break out the Tiki torches. Second, in response to a different post, Roman's offense is not designed around using the deep pass to open up running lanes. That is not what a power running game is all about, and Roman, Rex, and everyone else involved with the Bills O have stated the intention to install a power run game. Nor is Watkins the "deep threat", that would be Goodwin or Harvin, one of the "fast twitch speed guys". Third, there are perhaps 2-3 players in the league who have shown they are "the Man" both for their film-room acumen and their year-in, year-out on field performance, and should be consulted - Peyton Manning would be one. Tom Brady would be another. Possibly Aaron Rodgers. And that's about it. So I do most sincerely hope you're wrong. QB/WR chemistry is on both guys, and it's up to the WR to do his part to cultivate it, not to sulk and whine and take plays off if it doesn't roll his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 I think the head coach hires his assistant coaches to coach their unit, they are hired because of their expertise along with their resume & where they have taken other units . So with that being said i think that Rex being the head coach should have some input about the decision but the end all should be Romans baby . The same goes for the play calling during the game ! Roman should be making those play calls . If there is a question about a circumstance then there are 3 time outs to be used but they practice most all situations in practice so each should be versed on what to do & Rex should have faith in the man he hired to do his job !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 It's Rex's call. No question. He IS the head coach. The buck stops at Rex. Rex isn't giving input, he's receiving it and if he's good he will probably realize that the input he is receiving is more valuable than the input he might give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Because that means Rex isn't letting Roman run the offense to the best of his ability---with the players, and style, he believes will best succeed. Who do you want to trust with offensive decisions? Rex or Roman? I'm not suggesting Roman won't do his best with whomever he has to work with, and make an offense that goes with their skill set. But why tie the guy's hands? Rex has no clue about offensive football. Let the man you hired to do the job, do the job. At least to start the year. If it goes south, then make a change. Interesting comment. I look at it slightly differently; Rex knows what sort of an offense gives his defense the most difficulty. I think that's why he likes TT. Rex probably views Cassel as a sitting duck if he were coming at him with a real gameplan. But at the end of the day, I do believe Rex will defer to Roman's judgment about who should play. These guys are on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 We have two right near the start of their careers. Even better, they have had some time to lean on the bench. While I'm not all-in on either EJ or TT, I'm fairly bullish on the Bills QB situation right now. I have to agree here. And its not blind hope either. But in Rex i trust. Sincerely , i mean that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) But if you are the Head Coach and ultimately it is your reputation on the line then you have to be comfortable yourself with the guy you are going with. It is no point going with the Quarterback everyone else wants if you in your heart of hearts don't believe in him. So you have an OC that is not a placeholder, and as an HC you are going to forcefeed the OC against his will not only a player in his offense, but the single most important player? Does that make sense at all? Personally I think they should go to the big tree and hash it out over a beer. But push comes to shove and they cannot agree, you have to go with the QB that the OC feels works best in his system. It is HIS system after all, not Ryans. Edited August 25, 2015 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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